Co-worker said that the people who don't have kids should work Christmas

[focusondisney]

Hospital RN going on 34 years here. Here's what I've lived thru:

original rules:
take preference list, if staffing not met, the least senior person who was OFF the year before got scheduled. (This basically ensured every other year on/ off for Christmas).

I changed buildings & rules changed to preference by seniority. By this time I had enough seniority to get off every Christmas. But my kids were in their teens by then & sleeping til noon anyway, so I voluntarily scheduled myself every other year anyway. Think that would make my co-workers with younger kids happy, right? WRONG! The years I would take off, I still heard lots of complaints about taking off. And the nurses who got off because I volunteered never, ever, ever "paid it forward". I know, that is none of my business, but I kind of feel stupid & used for giving up my Christmas for them to be with their kids. Those same kids are now in their 20's & these coworkers still feel they should be entitled to every Christmas off.

So a few years ago, I started taking what my seniority entitled me to. Took off on Christmas day & eve & work NY eve or day, depending on my plans.


We just got a new contract & holidays will change next year. Will go back to aasking for volunteers. If more staff needed, it will go by a 3 year rotation. Least senior who was off the last 2 years will be scheduled. Christmas, New Years & Thanksgiving will be grouped together for this selection process. Basically,you will work 1 of the 3 & be off the other 2. You will then be off that holiday for the next 2 years . (EX: work Christmas 2012, New Years 2013, Thanksgiving 2014, Christmas 2015 ...)


This is fair & I have no problem doing my share. After all, I am an RN who works in a hospital. I knew 34 years ago that hospitals are open & busy 356 days a year. I knew what I was getting into & never expected to get every holiday off. I like rules that are fair for everybody.

 

[englishteacha]

My MIL was a nurse, and had to work either Thanksgiving or Christmas every year. It was just "how things were," and it applied to the entire staff.

DH asked me yesterday about how WDW handles Christmas shifts. We're assuming that when you apply for a job at WDW, you're told you'll be working some holidays! Christmas is the busiest day, isn't it? (at least at the MK)

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

What special consideration do they get--they get to pay quadruple what a single person pays for their insurance and out of pocket--if you consider that special consideration. Taking time off to see a play is almost always done by using vacation time, the same vacation time you get. I would bet if you were sick they would let you work from home as well.

We don't pay quadruple. In fact, after the first child, the family plan is inclusive for one set fee. We don't pay extra for each kid.

At my former employer, since we both worked there, we maintained separate insurance once we married as it was slightly cheaper than the "family" plan. Once we had a child, we switched to one policy. Aside from annual increases that all employees would experience, we did not pay "extra" for each kid.

Finally--there are individual deductibles and family deductibles. The family max is LESS than 2 individual maxes combined.

So while more may be missing from each paycheck, the unit cost is much less than the individual pays. So it is a benefit to the employee.

YMMV based on the company you work for, of course. My husband is with his third employer (4th if you count the interim "employment" via an agency that placed him with his current employer and had its own insurance plan). This has been our experience with ALL if them. I had one prior full time position at s tv station and their plans operated the same way.

You will always pay more for more people, but you are paying less per person than the individual. This is comparing apples to apples of course and not taking into account serious health issues that might require more OOP due to uncovered care. But even then, the individual would experience the same issue with a similar condition.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

I have a friend who works full-time (not just seasonally) at LLBean's calling center. She says they pay double-time on the holidays, so there are always people willing to work- and shifts are filled first by those who volunteer to work the holiday. Making it financially beneficial sure helps fill the shift with willing, rather than resentful, employees. (and yes, she volunteered to take the 7a-3p shift on Christmas Day... no kids, no family close by, and the host of our annual christmas dinner always checks to see if our friend is working before making dinner plans!)

This lmao: Couldn't help it)

When Dh had a "normal job", he WANTED to work holidays. He got paid double...So he would go in for like 4 or 5 hours and make over $100.

 

[Acklander]

At my former employer, since we both worked there, we maintained separate insurance once we married as it was slightly cheaper than the "family" plan. Once we had a child, we switched to one policy. Aside from annual increases that all employees would experience, we did not pay "extra" for each kid.

Finally--there are individual deductibles and family deductibles. The family max is LESS than 2 individual maxes combined.
You will always pay more for more people, but you are paying less per person than the individual. This is comparing apples to apples of course and not taking into account serious health issues that might require more OOP due to uncovered care. But even then, the individual would experience the same issue with a similar condition.

From what I've seen, most companies will offer a flat rate to contribute towards each employee's insurance. For example, if the cost for an individual plan is 300 a month and a family plan is 700 a month, the company will offer a 200 credit to each employee, so the single person will contribute 100 a month and the family will contribute 500 a month but both employees will receive the same benefit.
I've also seen where some companies will offer a fixed dollar amount for benefits that the employees could choose how to spend it on. For example, if the amount was 500$, the company would chip in that amount towards the health insurance. If the employee didn't need insurance (on a spouse's plan at a different employer) the money could be used towards daycare expenses or something like that. They had a dozen different things to choose from.

 

[bjscheel]

When Mom and I worked at the nursing home, I think it was every other year on holidays (one year you got certain holidays off, the next year you got the other holidays off). Mom was Director of Nurses so she didn't officially have to work any of the holidays, but my siblings were married with other sides to go to, and we never had family Christmas on Christmas Day. So Mom and I would volunteer to work every Christmas and I would get double pay.

Every other year seems like a fair deal to me.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

We don't pay quadruple. In fact, after the first child, the family plan is inclusive for one set fee. We don't pay extra for each kid.

At my former employer, since we both worked there, we maintained separate insurance once we married as it was slightly cheaper than the "family" plan. Once we had a child, we switched to one policy. Aside from annual increases that all employees would experience, we did not pay "extra" for each kid.

Finally--there are individual deductibles and family deductibles. The family max is LESS than 2 individual maxes combined.

So while more may be missing from each paycheck, the unit cost is much less than the individual pays. So it is a benefit to the employee.

YMMV based on the company you work for, of course. My husband is with his third employer (4th if you count the interim "employment" via an agency that placed him with his current employer and had its own insurance plan). This has been our experience with ALL if them. I had one prior full time position at s tv station and their plans operated the same way.

You will always pay more for more people, but you are paying less per person than the individual. This is comparing apples to apples of course and not taking into account serious health issues that might require more OOP due to uncovered care. But even then, the individual would experience the same issue with a similar condition.

I think this varies hugely. Where I work, my employer pays 100% for the employee and 0% for dependents. It's one set fee for "families" so my kid (single parent, one child) pays far and away the most per person.

As to the original question, I think that it is a generous thing for someone without close by family to volunteer to work Christmas for someone with kids. I think it would be an awful policy for an employer to force it that way.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Have worked in nursing in acute care hospitals for 28 years, and in nursing homes before that for many years, so I've done my share of holidays. I really don't mind. I like being there for patients who may be far from home and/or don't have any visitors, or seeing families coming together for their own in the hospital. We also try to make it fun for staff by bringing in food and giving out small gifts and such.

We group our holidays into 3 summer (Memorial Day, July 4 and Labor Day) and 3 winter (Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's). Everyone is scheduled for at least one in each season; newer people may wind up with two for a couple of years. Holidays start at 11pm the night before and end at 11pm the night of, by definition (so "eves" don't really count). You do get to request for your #1 preference off, and they do try to accomodate, although it's expected you'll switch out Thanksgiving and Christmas from time to time (i.e. you cannot always request Christmas off). Voluntary swapping is allowed once the schedule is done. On the actual holiday, if time can be given off (e.g. if overstaffed or beds are closed), offers go by seniority. (Many with seniority choose to work anyway so those with less seniority may still get it off; and because "eves" aren't considered the holiday, newer people's chances of getting an "eve" off are very good if they haven't had time off before as that goes on a rotational basis.)

Most people think this system is fair but there are always some who are unhappy. Whether or not someone has children does not come into play, nor should it, IMHO, but I have seen senior nurses volunteer to come in early on XMas morning so those with young children can have an extra couple of hours at home with their kids or work for someone else for whatever reason, sometimes to their own detriment (which happened this year to someone who switched out so someone else could be with family but wound up working all three holidays herself somehow as a senior staff person).

 

[Nancyg56]

I'll be the (seemingly) one and only to say that yeah, I think if you have young kids, you should get off for Christmas. DH is a pharmacist, and before we had kids, he made sure to cover all the holidays so his co-workers with kids could have them off. He just felt that was the right thing to do.
And for the people who say that they have neices and nephews and such that they want to be there for on Christmas, I totally understand that. However, which would be more important to that child - To have their aunt/uncle there on Christmas morning, or their mommy and daddy there?

I think that it is very condescending to assume that a person who does nto have children would be less worthy of a Christmas off then one who does have children. I believe that the days of employers using parental obligations to withhold positions or pay from people are over so the opposite is true as well.

My DS works in a large 24/7 call center. When he was on the phones he used to resent that some parents assumed that he had no obligations for Christmas and had nothing else to do but come in for their shift. These people accepted the benefits of that job when it was convenient but some felt that Holidays were theirs alone.

Now my DS always offered to work 4 hours in the morning so that a parent could be home in the morning and did this every Christmas that eh was on the phones but that was because he wanted to, not because he had nothing better to do.

 

[DisneySarah80]

I think that it is very condescending to assume that a person who does nto have children would be less worthy of a Christmas off then one who does have children. I believe that the days of employers using parental obligations to withhold positions or pay from people are over so the opposite is true as well.

My DS works in a large 24/7 call center. When he was on the phones he used to resent that some parents assumed that he had no obligations for Christmas and had nothing else to do but come in for their shift. These people accepted the benefits of that job when it was convenient but some felt that Holidays were theirs alone.

Now my DS always offered to work 4 hours in the morning so that a parent could be home in the morning and did this every Christmas that eh was on the phones but that was because he wanted to, not because he had nothing better to do.

"I think that it is very condescending to assume that a person who does nto have children would be less worthy of a Christmas off then one who does have children." Can you show me exactly where I said this?? I said that I think that people with young children should have off for Christmas. I think everyone feels the same. To do this, others would have to work - People that either don't have children, or have older children. If you noticed, I never gave any ideas as to how to deligate this, because there is no real fair way of doing it.
"I believe that the days of employers using parental obligations to withhold positions or pay from people are over so the opposite is true as well." Really? Because the last two places I worked did this, so I don't think people are "over it." The first owner told me that if she had known I had kids, she wouldn't have hired me, and the second place was all for hiring people with kids... Untill something happened where I had to leave early one day (my mother was watching my kids, and she had to be admitted to the hospital, and I had to get my kids) and that was that.... There were other issues with that place, and thats really why I left, but it was obvious how they felt.


So to clarify, yes, I believe, that in a perfect world, all parents with young kids should be off on Christmas, and Christmas Eve (BTW, my DH had to work all day on Christmas Eve, and went right back to work 12 hours the day after Christmas). It would be wonderful if co-workers with either no children (like my DH did for every single holiday, because he felt it was the right thing to do), or older children could work these days. Of course, it would have to be by volunteer only to be fair.

 

[HsvTeacher]

I have to agree with the insurance issue varying greatly from job to job. My DH and I pay the same for our insurance as a family with (2, 4, 8, 12) children. The family plan is the family plan.

 

[Nancyg56]

"I think that it is very condescending to assume that a person who does nto have children would be less worthy of a Christmas off then one who does have children." Can you show me exactly where I said this?? I said that I think that people with young children should have off for Christmas. I think everyone feels the same. To do this, others would have to work - People that either don't have children, or have older children. If you noticed, I never gave any ideas as to how to deligate this, because there is no real fair way of doing it.
"I believe that the days of employers using parental obligations to withhold positions or pay from people are over so the opposite is true as well." Really? Because the last two places I worked did this, so I don't think people are "over it." The first owner told me that if she had known I had kids, she wouldn't have hired me, and the second place was all for hiring people with kids... Untill something happened where I had to leave early one day (my mother was watching my kids, and she had to be admitted to the hospital, and I had to get my kids) and that was that.... There were other issues with that place, and thats really why I left, but it was obvious how they felt.


So to clarify, yes, I believe, that in a perfect world, all parents with young kids should be off on Christmas, and Christmas Eve (BTW, my DH had to work all day on Christmas Eve, and went right back to work 12 hours the day after Christmas). It would be wonderful if co-workers with either no children (like my DH did for every single holiday, because he felt it was the right thing to do), or older children could work these days. Of course, it would have to be by volunteer only to be fair.

Hmm.................I am not an employment attorney but I believe that it is illegal to consider a person's parental status in the hiring process or for pay or when determining when a raise or promotion is due. Those days of men earning more because they supported households are over. If you had an employer who forgot those laws the employer is lucky not to have been held accountable.

I also believe that not everyone agrees that people with young children deserve to have Christmas and Christmas Eve off while others assume their positions. I know that I do not agree and I was in a position of having to work those days when my children were young. It is nice to be able to be home but when I accepted the position I also accepted the days I worked.

You are right, there is no fair way to give one person a right to a special day off over another simply because of the age of their children. I worked with a man who felt that he should have Sunday off because that was the day he went to Church. He said it was a law that he should not be forced to work on Sunday. Hmmmmm...............he chose to accept the job knowing the hours, decided he did not want a shift that gave him Sunday morning off because he hated the hours but wanted to jump over the rest of us to get a Mon-Fri so he was golden. no.............he "deserved" Sunday morning Mass.

The bottom line is that if a person want certain hours or certain days off for whatever reason it is important to make sure to choose a job that will ensure that tiem off. It really is not fair to accept pay and benefits that everyone else has and then expect special consideration for Holidays.

If someone wants to offer to fill in that is nice but even then, in many companies it is not possible to choose who you work for. that is based on seniority as well.

 

[kelleigh1]

Things like this always make me sad and angry.

It makes me sad because you don't know why I don't have children or why that person or that person doesn't have children. Maybe they tried and tried for years and dealt with heartache after heartache and when something like this comes up, it's just another knife in the heart reminding them that they couldn't have children. Or maybe they chose not to have children for some other reason, like the risk that they could pass some genetic condition on to them and they didn't want to do that to their child.

It makes me angry because you have no right to make us feel as though we are not important, as though we can't possibly have a family or enjoy family events because we don't have our own children. It's discrimination - plain and simple!


My sister and I had a conversation once about how I was treated differently because I didn't have kids. I don't remember the details of the conversation as it was many years ago, but my nephew asked her about it at the time and she told him that because I didn't have kids, I didn't get to do some things that other people with kids got to do. His response..."she's got kids. She's got us." I love that kid!!


Oh, and my husband works retail. It is the job he chose. That means the only days he is guaranteed off are Christmas and Thanksgiving - just the actual day - because those are the only days the whole year that the store is closed. We don't get to go visit family for the holidays because we know he's going to have to work Black Friday, Christmas Eve, etc. He is not allowed to request any time off from Thanksgiving through New Years, so we don't get to go away for the holidays. But that is the job that he took and we understood that going in. The plus side of that however is that we get to travel in the off-peak times. And since we don't have children, we don't have to worry about school either, so we can always plan our Disney vacations during Value Season.

 

[SandrA9810]

My MIL was a nurse, and had to work either Thanksgiving or Christmas every year. It was just "how things were," and it applied to the entire staff.

DH asked me yesterday about how WDW handles Christmas shifts. We're assuming that when you apply for a job at WDW, you're told you'll be working some holidays! Christmas is the busiest day, isn't it? (at least at the MK)

You can read my post of how it's handled at WDW. It's clearly set forth that if take the job, you will be required to work holidays, and if you're full time there's mandatory overtime for busy periods. The only thing that the company does, is try not to get you on double back. Double back is double your pay when you reach a certain amount of hours past over-time pay (time and a half).
Ex: First 8 hrs is straight pay, second 6 hrs is over time, anything beyond that is double back.
If your shift from one day to the next day is less than 8 hrs apart (even by 15 minutes), your shifts are combined into one long total. So if the schedule is 8am - midnight, the following day is 7:45am - 5pm. The total hours between the two shifts would be combined, the first 8hrs as regular pay, next 6hrs as over time, the remaining time as double time.

One and only once, I got double back for a shift similar to that. I had 16hrs my first day and 10 hrs my second day with 7hrs between shifts. With more like only 3hrs to sleep.

Ohh and if you're scheduled for your 7th day, it's double back. If you pick up a shift, it's only overtime. Anything past the first 8hrs in a day was overtime, and 6th day was over time. Even if you didn't reach 40 hours for the week. Say you work a 12 shift day 1, and day 2-5 was 6hr shifts. You still got paid 4hrs of overtime for the day 1 shift.

They try to avoid it, but it does happen in various areas. There's also the College Program kids, they get a boatload of hours during Christmas and Thanksgiving. CP's do not have any seniority with the company, and they usually don't get approved days off for holidays. There's also the seasonals that come back specifically for the holidays.

We just kind of bumped our holiday around to make it work, and invited friends over if they could make it too. Although I usually managed to have Christmas day off, but that's because my department was fairly small at the time, and wound up having a pretty high seniority. I also preferred having middle of the week days off which is when Christmas fell. Those with kids preferred having the weekends off, because six months of weekends were better than 1 day for Christmas with their kids.

But on any other day than your day off, shifts can run as long as 20hrs. Of course there are a certain amount of breaks and usually past 12 hrs got you a second lunch.

And in most line of businesses, once you got past 2 years, you were higher in seniority. Then there were the top 5-10 on the list with 15-20 years of seniority. So if you played your part the first few years, you were likely to get approved for the holidays off after that, if you submitted a request before the end of the year.

I also like how Disney celebrates the holidays for more than one day. Like the Magic Kingdom does it's fireworks for two days, the eve and day of. I did like all the hustle and bustle of the holidays. And in photopass, I got a little more fun, as you can't take pictures during the parade or fireworks. So we just get to stand there and watch them.

 

[my3sonsagn]

At the hospital DH works for there are minor holidays (Memorial Day, July 4th, and Labor Day) and major holidays (Thanksgiving, Christmas, NYD); each employee works one of each, and it rotates each year, so he has to work Christmas once every 3 years. What is a little disappointing to me is that, since he works evenings (4p - midnight) and Christmas Eve and NYE aren't considered holidays, he has to work EVERY Christmas Eve and NYE that falls on a weekday - since 2012 is a leap year that means he'll be working both of those for the next 4 years in a row.

We are very thankful for his job and for the fairness in rotating the major holidays, but I can't help wishing I could ring in the new year with my husband more than once every 5 years or so and have him for our extended family Christmas (has been on CE since my oldest uncle got married over 50 years ago). Not complaining or venting - just a wish and a (small) whine. lol

 

[Andtototoo]

As a parent, I am exceedingly grateful to those coworkers who covered for me when my dd was in the hospital or when she was graduating from kindergarten or high school. I believe my coworker with the parent with dementia who's an escape artist who has to run out from time to time with no warning to deal with those issues is exceedingly grateful to me for covering for her.

I can no more imagine believing I was entitled to preferential holiday time off than I can imagine that my coworker with an elderly parent with dementia was entitled to preferential time off.

 

[scottishduffy]

Nope!

When I worked as a floor nurse you had to volunteer each year for 1 major and 2 minor holidays. The list was put out, and you signed up accordingly. It was a first come first serve type of deal.

Currently I work in a large group. They ask for volunteers for holidays (which I volunteered this year since LO is only 6 months old), and if you work a holiday one year then you are guaranteed no holidays for the next 2 years! If they are short on volunteers they hold a random raffle of people who have not worked holidays the past 2 years and see who gets picked. I worked Christmas and will do New Years as well this year. I don't mind working on holidays.

 

[Bren's Mom]

I don't think it's right to ASSUME that if one does not have children they should automatically work a holiday like Christmas Day...but I think that if we treated one another generally how we would want to be treated most of the time this wouldn't be an issue.

I always volunteered to work Christmas Day, often even working a double (16 hours) when I was single and then married with no children. My coworkers with small kids who were scheduled for Christmas Day were exceptionally appreciative that I'd take their shift.

However, they were also very helpful in taking MY shifts when I wanted a day off and wasn't eligible or couldn't find someone to cover. Even if it was an undesirable night shift, etc.

I left that field right after having my son and went to a 9-5 job, so I never have had the issue, but I would have appreciated those without kids to cover me on Christmas Day if possible and I would have made sure to return the favor if I was still there.

 

[2disneyboys]

I have children, and thankfully, neither DH or I work at a job that would require us to not be able to spend Christmas eve, Christmas Morning, etc with our child. With that said, I DO NOT agree that if you don't have children you should have to work it. It's really nice for someone who does not have children to volunteer to cover for a parent, however, I don't think it should be a rule and I don't think they should ever be made to feel bad or uncomfortable if they dont' want (for whatever reason) to cover a parents shift. If you work in an occupation that would require someone to be available 24 hrs a day 365 days a year, then you know that upfront and you either deal, or you make arrangments to get into an occupation that allows you those days off. My Sister is a nurse, my brother is a fireman, another sister in law works at an emergency vets office, and I have lots of military persons in different aspects of my family and a few family members that work in "always open" job environments. Lots of times those family members get to celebrate Christmas w/ everyone and other times they don't. It's just what is. I don't agree w/ any "group" getting inclusion or exclusion. It's a form of discrimination and I don't like it.

 

[Tozzie]

Question for those of you who think that the people who are single or childless should work on Christmas, I have no children and don 't plan to have any so in that mean I should volunteer to work every Christmas so those of you who chose to have Children can have off.