Chronic late to work

[amg35]

Why is everyone giving Firedancer a hard time about this...on the teens getting jobs threads we have had here in the past, they say this is a common question asked of teens, and that employers prefer teens that drive and have a means to get there.

Because unless it is a job that specifically requires a car to be able to DO the job, then that it should make no difference.

I guess the people who agree with him live in a place where most people drive to work.

Again, in large cities most people are taking public transportation. Even a lot of people in the suburbs are taking the Metra in.

 

[Ember]

Obviously though, all things being equal, someone with their own car has access to all the same transportation options as someone without a car - PLUS they have the car. In the end, that makes them more likely to be able to arrive when needed. BTW, I can ask about transportation, but can't ask questions about kids in interviews (somehow, it always comes up though).

I would take the person without kids on public transit over the person with kids and a car... If I were going to judge a persons ability on something so meaningless, that is.

 

[dawnball]

BUT who sees it as "unpaid" hour? I don't think anyone does. What can you do with that hour? Grab some coffee or a snack, read a book, check your email, read the paper, text your friends, play a game on your phone, post on the DIS. I could keep going. It's not like you have to go start working just because you arrive early. Find a way to enjoy those 50 minutes and it won't seem like unpaid time. In fact, I find that I feel more relaxed going in after having that free time in the morning.

Well, clearly I do, so someone does.

I don't have access to the office an hour early unless I make prior arrangements, so I'm not working. If I were working, I'd charge the time.

This doesn't have anything to do with being relaxed or not knowing what to do with the hour, it has to do with not being able to choose what I do and calculating compensation for my time. If my employment requires me to be somewhere, I'm "working".

Let's say that I have a choice between two jobs. For the sake of round numbers, one pays $50/hr and is a 2 hour commute. They'd like me to work 40 hours/week. The other job pays $40/hr and is a 5 minute commute. They'd like me to work 50 hours a week. Both jobs pay $2000/week, but the first one costs me 9 more hours of time a week. I'd consider myself a bit of an idiot if I didn't make that calculation.

 

[dawnball]

Why is everyone giving Firedancer a hard time about this...on the teens getting jobs threads we have had here in the past, they say this is a common question asked of teens, and that employers prefer teens that drive and have a means to get there.

Asking people in an interview if they own a car is a bad idea.

Phrasing the question that way:

Is potentially illegal. (Much like bankruptcy or home ownership, car ownership can reflect credit rating and using credit rating or financial solvency can be seen as evidence of discrimination against minorities. It can also discriminate against people with disabilities.)

Doesn't answer the relevant question, which is "Can you meet X job requirement?"

It opens the employer to liability, not just while on business errands, but on the commute as well. You can lose protection of the coming and going rule, even if all you've done is imply that owning a car and using it to commute is relevant to being hired.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Obviously though, all things being equal, someone with their own car has access to all the same transportation options as someone without a car - PLUS they have the car. In the end, that makes them more likely to be able to arrive when needed.

BTW, I can ask about transportation, but can't ask questions about kids in interviews (somehow, it always comes up though).

You know, I am not saying that a car is not a reliable form of transportation--it is and my husband uses one for work.

But you are still not entirely correct--since all things almost certainly will not be equal. Someone who relies on a car all the time is not nearly as likely to even have a bike that is in good working order, have the stamina to jump on and ride it to work at the spur of the moment (if they are not used to riding regularly over distances), or necessarily even know the route that a bike can legally take (if their normal car commute involves the highway for example).

And public transit? If you do not live in a big city in the US--those who do not rely on it often don't even realize it is there. I am serious--I have encountered people over the years in at least three different areas who were startled when I said i had taken a bus to get somewhere, because they were completely unaware that the city HAD a us system. Even those who are vaguely aware of such a system, are often not versed in which connection to take, what stop is near their house, which is near their employer, etc.

Realistically, if their car will not start at 7:30 and they nee to be at work at 8:00 they will not be able to regroup, arrange public transit or ride a bike and make it on time. And, of course, if their car breaks down on the side of the road, or they are stuck in a huge traffic jam, there is no way to even try those things.

At the end of the day, most people use the method of transportation that works best for them--and most people know how to use that method well and make sure it DOES work.

 

[Disney Doll]

This is a TOTAL crock of hooey. I'm the habitually late person getting to work. About three days out of 5, I "roll in" at 8:45 am. My hours are supposed to be 8:30 am to 6 pm.

I'm also the same person here until 8 pm or later as needed to do billing for my job because the biller "doesn't know how" and refuses to learn. I run the department of one for me AND I bring in new clients all of the time.

Oh, and I was also the person her Sunday afternoon making sure everyone on the staff would be paid tomorrow because of the short week.

So don't give me that donkeypoo about us late people not putting in a solid effort.

Some reasons why I'm late:

Traffic, too cold to get out of bed, traffic, I'm on the phone with a work call at 7 am and didn't get in the shower on time, my cat was ill, didn't feel like racing into work, carbeque, breakfast meetings off-lot, traffic, I just CAN'T get here exactly at 8:30 am daily and I would be the first person in anyway...

Also, my company has a policy whereas you can get written up if you are caught talking/texting on your phone for business while driving. I'll often pull over on my way in to take a call.

If you are on the phone for a work call or texting for a work call or at a breakfast for work prior to getting to work, then you are working so technically not late.

Traffic...probably OK for an occasional excuse when there is an unusual traffic event but realistically if you know that under normal traffic conditions it takes you 15 minutes to get to work, on the days when you're not doing "pre-work" work, you need to leave your house 15-20 minutes before you need to be in the office. "Carbeque" would fall into the unuusla traffic occurrence category since a flaming car does tend to tie up traffic.

Too cold to get out of bed? Since you seem to be a dedicated employee based on the amount of off hours you put it, even you know that's a silly reason.

Cat sick...well, OK, I assume that doesn't happen once a week and you have to clean it up so....

Don't feel like racing into work...well, wake up with enough time to get out of bed and do what you need to do at a relaxed pace.

And again, if you don't have a job where others are depending on you to be there, if your boss is OK with you being a little late to work because you do put in extra hours, if your tardiness has no true negative impact due to the nature of your work, then it's not a problem. You have what many like to call a "flexible work schedule".

However there are employees for whom tardiness does impact other people and may impact the business...and that's a problem.

This part not directed at you Handbag Lady:
From a social standpoint, someone who is chronically late tends to be slowly morphed off my list of people I hang with frequently because chronic lateness in social situations says to me "You are not important enough to me for me to make the effort to respect your time".

I have a friend who is chronically late. I don't do as many things with her and the things I DO do I make sure I tell her "we are leaving at X time and if you are not here at X time we will leave without you and you can meet us there". If it's a planned time thing (ie-a dinner reservation at 630pm) I will say "If you're not at the restaurant by 640PM don't bother coming because we are not waiting for you to order". Experience has taught me that she has no problem being 30-45 minutes late to a dinner reservation and expects that everyone will just wait. Uh...no...It's not cute, it's not funny, it's not "oh that's just me and you all have to learn to deal with it" and people who have the notion that the world should wait for them are incredibly self-absorbed.

 

[Disney Doll]

As long as the person can get to work on time, they should not be judged on the means they use to get there. My teen is about to begin her job search. She does not have a car of her own an we can't afford to get her one. She is looking at places within bike distance. She is very reliable. To say she should never be hired is unfair and short sighted.

But realistically, some jobs require that the employee have access to an automobile. FireDancer gave a perfect example...it's 2AM and one of the servers is down and you need to come in now to work on it. If that server is one that houses the electronic medical record in a hospital, that becomes a situation where you need to be here NOW.

Unless you're in a super duper metro city not a lot of public transportation is running at 2AM. And I'm guessing that not a lot of people would be looking to bike to work at 2AM.

So while I agree with you that not every job needs to have the consideration of transportation issues, there are some that do.

 

[CdnCarrie]

But realistically, some jobs require that the employee have access to an automobile. FireDancer gave a perfect example...it's 2AM and one of the servers is down and you need to come in now to work on it. If that server is one that houses the electronic medical record in a hospital, that becomes a situation where you need to be here NOW.

Unless you're in a super duper metro city not a lot of public transportation is running at 2AM. And I'm guessing that not a lot of people would be looking to bike to work at 2AM.

So while I agree with you that not every job needs to have the consideration of transportation issues, there are some that do.

Any company I've worked for would reimburse a employee for a cab in a situation like you outlined.

 

[Art 1]

Any company I've worked for would reimburse a employee for a cab in a situation like you outlined.

That's highly unusual though, it's something that is new to me, never heard of that before.

 

[ronandannette]

...And again, if you don't have a job where others are depending on you to be there, if your boss is OK with you being a little late to work because you do put in extra hours, if your tardiness has no true negative impact due to the nature of your work, then it's not a problem. You have what many like to call a "flexible work schedule".

However there are employees for whom tardiness does impact other people and may impact the business...and that's a problem.

This part not directed at you Handbag Lady:
From a social standpoint, someone who is chronically late tends to be slowly morphed off my list of people I hang with frequently because chronic lateness in social situations says to me "You are not important enough to me for me to make the effort to respect your time".

I have a friend who is chronically late. I don't do as many things with her and the things I DO do I make sure I tell her "we are leaving at X time and if you are not here at X time we will leave without you and you can meet us there". If it's a planned time thing (ie-a dinner reservation at 630pm) I will say "If you're not at the restaurant by 640PM don't bother coming because we are not waiting for you to order". Experience has taught me that she has no problem being 30-45 minutes late to a dinner reservation and expects that everyone will just wait. Uh...no...It's not cute, it's not funny, it's not "oh that's just me and you all have to learn to deal with it" and people who have the notion that the world should wait for them are incredibly self-absorbed.

That's a good way of putting it; while there may be many rigid corporate cube-farms where punctuality is a benchmark of performance, not all workplaces are the same. Absolutely nothing at my workplace would change or be improved if I (or all my co-workers) were on-the-dot every day. Our employer is very "flexible" with us - we acknowledge it and find it motivational. We are even (gasp) allowed paid time during work hours for medical appointments and family commitments and ample discretionary paid days off for personal emergencies. Job satisfaction and employee retention are extremely high at my company and as a group we produce award-winning results that have been recognized both locally and nationally. It's not always about butts in chairs, nor do I think it can automatically be assumed that those of us that admitted to being late to work (I think there are three of us participating in this thread) are weak-charactered narcissists who can't do "life" right. (Although I do understand your example wasn't referring directly to any PP).

 

[laura.anne]

That's a good way of putting it; while there may be many rigid corporate cube-farms where punctuality is a benchmark of performance, not all workplaces are the same. Absolutely nothing at my workplace would change or be improved if I (or all my co-workers) were on-the-dot every day. Our employer is very "flexible" with us - we acknowledge it and find it motivational. We are even (gasp) allowed paid time during work hours for medical appointments and family commitments and ample discretionary paid days off for personal emergencies. Job satisfaction and employee retention are extremely high at my company and as a group we produce award-winning results that have been recognized both locally and nationally. It's not always about butts in chairs, nor do I think it can automatically be assumed that those of us that admitted to being late to work (I think there are three of us participating in this thread) are weak-charactered narcissists who can't do "life" right. (Although I do understand your example wasn't referring directly to any PP).

?? There are many jobs that require punctuality that aren't "corporate cube-farms"... hospitals, schools, even just regular old part-time retail. I am still in college so all of the jobs I've worked have been part-time at places like restaurants or grocery stores, and having been a shift manager at my last job, I can tell you that it definitely was not a "cube farm," but our shifts would have been improved by miles if people had shown up to work on time on a regular basis.

 

[NHdisneylover]

But realistically, some jobs require that the employee have access to an automobile. FireDancer gave a perfect example...it's 2AM and one of the servers is down and you need to come in now to work on it. If that server is one that houses the electronic medical record in a hospital, that becomes a situation where you need to be here NOW.

Unless you're in a super duper metro city not a lot of public transportation is running at 2AM. And I'm guessing that not a lot of people would be looking to bike to work at 2AM.

So while I agree with you that not every job needs to have the consideration of transportation issues, there are some that do.

Yes, but Firedancer originally was responding to a point about being on time to work with normal hours--and the poster who says he asks that of teens before hiring them gave no indication that this is the type of work he is talking abotu (who WOULD hire teens for a job that requires last minute, long drives, at 2 in the morning? ).
If, and only if there are specific reasons that the job requires you to have a car while on the clock such as delivery drivers, a job that requires running errands around town, or dropping off or picking up children or making service calls in a wide area, etc then I really do not see what business it is of the employer how someone GETS to work. (aren't emergency service calls billed by hours including transportation hours? Especially if they are 2 hours of driving from the normal work place?)

That's a good way of putting it; while there may be many rigid corporate cube-farms where punctuality is a benchmark of performance, not all workplaces are the same. Absolutely nothing at my workplace would change or be improved if I (or all my co-workers) were on-the-dot every day. Our employer is very "flexible" with us - we acknowledge it and find it motivational. We are even (gasp) allowed paid time during work hours for medical appointments and family commitments and ample discretionary paid days off for personal emergencies. Job satisfaction and employee retention are extremely high at my company and as a group we produce award-winning results that have been recognized both locally and nationally. It's not always about butts in chairs, nor do I think it can automatically be assumed that those of us that admitted to being late to work (I think there are three of us participating in this thread) are weak-charactered narcissists who can't do "life" right. (Although I do understand your example wasn't referring directly to any PP).

See, in your case I would not classify you as "late" at all. You have flexible hours--there is no set time for you to be there, so you are not late. Now, if on a given day you had a meeting to attend, or training session, etc and that had a set start time and you arrived past that start time, then you would be late.
Chronically late people are those who often arrive late when they DO have a set start time that they are expected to be there for. THOSE people, always seem to have an excuse. If they drive to work it is likely to be "traffic," if the use public transit it is likely to be a "late bus" or heck, like a PP it could be "cranky kids" (as if the rest of us all have kids that are perfect morning angels )

 

[NHdisneylover]

?? There are many jobs that require punctuality that aren't "corporate cube-farms"... hospitals, schools, even just regular old part-time retail. I am still in college so all of the jobs I've worked have been part-time at places like restaurants or grocery stores, and having been a shift manager at my last job, I can tell you that it definitely was not a "cube farm," but our shifts would have been improved by miles if people had shown up to work on time on a regular basis.

Very true. When my husband has a (rare) office day--he can set his own hours. However, when he teaches an internal training course, he needs to be there on time so as to not keep his students waiting (and THEY need to show up on time, otherwise they miss things and disrupt the other students and DH when they arrive).

When he flies places, he needs to be at the airport on time (one colleague was let go after missing 10 flights in the course of one year-okay maybe once something unexpected happens, but not over and over and over--this same guy was often late to meetings, etc too).

Etc, etc. and that IS a flexible corporate culture. Certainly retail, schools, fire departments, hospitals etc NEED to have coverage at the right times and someone showing up late effects others.

 

[Granny square]

That's a good way of putting it; while there may be many rigid corporate cube-farms where punctuality is a benchmark of performance, not all workplaces are the same. Absolutely nothing at my workplace would change or be improved if I (or all my co-workers) were on-the-dot every day. Our employer is very "flexible" with us - we acknowledge it and find it motivational. We are even (gasp) allowed paid time during work hours for medical appointments and family commitments and ample discretionary paid days off for personal emergencies. Job satisfaction and employee retention are extremely high at my company and as a group we produce award-winning results that have been recognized both locally and nationally. It's not always about butts in chairs, nor do I think it can automatically be assumed that those of us that admitted to being late to work (I think there are three of us participating in this thread) are weak-charactered narcissists who can't do "life" right. (Although I do understand your example wasn't referring directly to any PP).

Lol, you've been taught the "right" verbiage! Lots of jobs have an expectation of respect and puctuality. They even win awards! Gasp!

If an employer expects one to be punctual, then they need to be. If there is more flexibility then an employee needs to still give the effort expected. It is the same thing really in spite of your attempt to put people in boxes.

 

[leebee]

Whew! In reality, even though we write out our timecards for 8-3, I have flexible hours and being 5 mins. late in the morning is irrelevant (just as is staying over an hour late in the afternoon ). Nobody is working extra while waiting for me to come in so they can go home, nobody is standing outside in the cold waiting for me to unlock the door, and I am always there at least 20 minutes before the clients (in this case, students) arrive, so nobody else's life is disrupted if I come in 5 minutes after the hour. I guess I am safe on the DISboards

While I 100% agree that asking if you have a car is NOT a valid question for hiring/not hiring, I think employers ask it of teens because many don't have a car and rely on others for a ride. The teen might feel that it's essential he be on time for work, but if his parent/ride giver doesn't make it a priority in their life, the teen's late to work. My DH's dad was like this; DH (at 16) would start reminding his dad several hours in advance of the time they'd need to leave to get DH to work, but his dad always had something come up, even if it was a "just a minute until I finish my coffee" excuse. Getting DH to work on time wasn't a priority for his dad, so he was never there on time. Fortunately for DH it was an icky job that was hard to fill, and he had an understanding employer, so he didn't lose his job over this, but I can see how this is a concern for employers.

 

[KBoopaloo]

At my old job, we had one employee who lived about 6-8 miles further away than the rest of us. She was late EVERY SINGLE DAY and was always the first person heading out at the end of the day. Her excuse was always that she had a longer commute. She also seemed to think that as long as she got off the train and was within city limits by 9:00 am, she was on time, so she would still stop and get breakfast every morning and roll in at 9:20/9:30.

It was incredibly frustrating and a totally lame excuse. She would say things like "Well, the way the train schedule works, I can't get here AT 9:00, I could get here at 8:40 or 9:20." Newsflash, our workday start at 9:00, so you should take the train that gets you here at 8:40. That is what the rest of us did. I wouldn't have minded if she stayed later in the afternoon to make up for the late time in the morning but she actually often left early, again citing "train schedule issues" ie, if she left AT 5:00, she'd have to wait longer for a train.

It was a huge morale issue as everyone else was working more hours than she was and it led to a ton of resentment in the office. Her chronic lateness with lame excuses was also just one symptom of being a terrible employee. She often called in sick just before or after holidays, she did work for her 2nd job during work hours and she was generally lazy.

 

[JanaDee]

Any company I've worked for would reimburse a employee for a cab in a situation like you outlined.

That's great, but not everywhere has cab service.

 

[Imhere]

It was a huge morale issue

That is frequently the BIGGEST issue related to lateness.

Lateness can be rationalized in a million ways by the perpetrator. The damage is in how everyone ELSE looks at it.

 

[Disney Doll]

Any company I've worked for would reimburse a employee for a cab in a situation like you outlined.

That's great but where I live a cab would be coming from the downtown area in the city next to me which is about a 15 minute ride to my suburban town then 15 minutes back to work.

Not exactly "quick".

 

[tvguy]

Any company I've worked for would reimburse a employee for a cab in a situation like you outlined.

You worked for some very generous companies. I think at least one person at every company I have worked for has been fired for inability to get to work.
DW and I have had a spare car for the last 27 years partly so we always have a way to get to work in the event of a dead battery or flat tire . Of course, a cab would be an option, but we would have to pay for it.