China’s richest man just picked a fight with Disneyland

[wilkeliza]

Wanda is already blatantly knocking off Disney Rides:

Toy Story Mania (1:27) Those are exact knock off ride vehicles and guns
Soarin' (2:30) Exact Knock off

I'm sure many more to come!

Most theme parks rip off of each other. Heck the nee ride six flags in NJ is opening this summer has been out in Europe for awhile. The difference will come from other things like service and theming. There will still be things that set Disney apart and they'll make sure of it. They'll find something that sells (like Duffy in Tokyo) and run with it as long as they can.

For the prices I think of the fact I can take a train and spend roughly 50-60 dollars for a full day (food and transportation included) at a local theme park but I still spend hundreds a day at any Disney park.

Like I said in a previous Shanghai thread, I have a coworker who immigrated from Shanghai and she has been telling me how excited many of the people she knows are. Most of the ones who are excitrd though are ones who already have ties to the "western" world and know Disney. They can't wait to go home to see family and go to Shanghai. Maybe I'm putting too much faith in a small sampling but it seems like there are at least some from Shanghai who want it.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

China has been stealing techno, products, ideas and manufacturing ideas for decades. They are very happy to sign contracts promising not to and then builds a plant across the street and takes everything, uses what amounts to slave labor and makes counterfeit everything. Worlds CEO and leaders are consistently so greedy they were lines up for years, ready to give away everything. No care about losing jobs at home. The USA has been the worse.

However things are changing.

As to Shanghai Disney I believe it will last a few years and then attendance will drop. That massive middle class they were all counting on is no where near in size or wealth, what was expected and Mr Iger and his Igertrons will have a mutli billion dollar problem on their hands. That is of course assuming China doesn't just throw Disney out and take park and characters for themselves.

Just a opinion based on watching how China does things.


AKK

 

[plove53]

Hope this is not "Disney Folly" ... if so, we would be paying for this thing in the other parks for years to come.

 

[Eoghann]

But I think it's very sad that a country is permitted by the rest of the world to steal their IP and technology on an ongoing basis. Stop selling to them and stop allowing them to purchase our companies.

For years America ignored other countries copyrights selling knockoff copies much to creators frustration. Then they grew up and started trying to impose their copyrights on other people.

It's a cycle.

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

Wanda is already blatantly knocking off Disney Rides:

Toy Story Mania (1:27) Those are exact knock off ride vehicles and guns
Soarin' (2:30) Exact Knock off

I'm sure many more to come!

I just find it amusing that they made it a point to say "each ride is original and unique" umm NO! It is what it is when it comes to having similar rides. Busch Gardens Williamsburg even ripped off Soarin' concept after they got bought out a few years ago. It's called "flights over Europe" and it's not nearly as cool as Soarin' b/c it's just the normal simulator, you don't actually fly. BUT they've never marketed it as "original."

 

[LittleDreamer]

This is a leader trying to use his clout to attack a rising competitor. As the article say the Wanda group has been building a lot of theme complexes in China and many of the Themed Entertainment companies around will tell you they have worked with the Wanda group. I don't think that his logic of a single tiger cannot win against a pack of wolves is accurate though. Consider how Disney continues to be top regardless of the challenges of Universal but many other companies such as Busch Gardens and Six Flags. Similarly his argument about cloning and lack of originality don't apply to this park. I applaud Disney for finally stepping away from the tried and true and attempting new things. Sure the framework of Disneyland is there but this is no way a copy as Magic Kingdom, Paris and HK are. It's also ridiculous that he takes about originality when their is a lot of overlap in the designs and themeing of attractions in China.

I also would like to remind people that he and Wanda are not only competing with Disney in the theme park industry but also in the movie industry. Wanda owns AMC Theaters and recently acquired Legendary Pictures (One of the production companies behind the dark knight trilogy, Jurrasic World and Universal's attempts to reboot their Kong franchise.) So any chance to make your opponent look weak might appeal to him.

 

[hopeful4fl]

Disney has brand equity that demands a premium. People in US, who have an emotional bond with Disney pay (through their noses sometimes) that premium, including premium for merchandise. Heck, we have all paid $50+ for a jacket made in China that might have cost $3 to manufacture.
China is a country where the current middle class has not had the privilege or access to iconic brands, nor the emotional attachment. I fear that the Chinese Tycoon may be speaking with context to the people whom Disney is counting on. After the initial "wow" factor of Disney is over, people may opt to go for a lower price point for Theme park, rather than quality. If that holds true, and IMO has a chance to, Disney may have an issue in the long run.

 

[mshanson3121]

I think Disney Shanghai will see a lot of non-Chinese visitors, but not many Chinese. Even though China claims to have a growing middle class, I don't buy that. How does a communist government allow for that?

As for recourse, I think it would be hard for Disney to fight. Any knockoffs would have Chinese law on their side. When knockoff products are found in the US, the items are confiscated, the seller is jailed for a night or two (at least here in NYC), but the next day someone else is out there with the same knockoffs, because it's tough to get to the source, and that source is usually China. If we can't stop them from bringing these items into our country, how is Disney to stop them from building on their own soil?



Chinese companies threatened to build their own version of Disney there, so Disney stepped in and built their own. Now no international travel is needed to copy it. I'm sure the building plans are all on file, so all Wanda has to do is take a look and duplicate it.

This. Entering China was a bad move, and I really don't see it accomplishing what they hoped it would. Even if China did build a knock-off park on their soil, I really don't see it having that big of an impact on Disney. Would they lose their Asian market? Sure. But I really doubt that that is that big of a slice in the pie. Certainly not worth the $5+ billion they had to invest, plus all future costs associated with it etc... I fully admit, I see Shanghai crashing and burning after the initial excitement wears off. Which is unfortunate for all of us.

 

[OKW Lover]

This is a leader trying to use his clout to attack a rising competitor. As the article say the Wanda group has been building a lot of theme complexes in China

Interesting to note that none of his competing them parks are on this list of the World's 25 Most Popular Amusement Parks.

 

[LittleDreamer]

Interesting to note that none of his competing them parks are on this list of the World's 25 Most Popular Amusement Parks.

I'm not sure how many parks they actually have open yet, their official site lists 6 in development. I do think they are attempting a more Six Flags appproach of many smaller parks spread around relying on local guest instead of a destination such a Disney. Their current big one Wanda Movie Park (which you could argue that all six of it's rides are stolen or copied) is an indoor complex and has pretty limited capacity.

I think he would of been smarter to attack Disney's disconnect from the Chinese people and they way they live. I think the key story and lesson that Disney has to deal with is food prices. It appears as if they priced the food in the park at western levels, like $8.99 for a burger and fries. While for Americans and Europeans that isn't unusual; I've seen reports that these prices are 4-5 times what the Chinese are used to paying. Then take in to consideration that China has not had the decades of a convenience culture the populace is more likely to go through means to avoid that expense, such as bring in their own food. If enough do bring in their own food then that would be a sizable hit to the bottom line. I don't know what the predictions for international vs native attendance are for the park but I think they are going to have to find a middle ground between not seeming outlandish to Chinese guest but not seeming cheap to international tourist.

 

[Lesverts]

Disneyland Shanghai is partially owned by the Shanghai government and by extension the Chinese government as a whole. Do you really think that they won't protect their investment? The Shanghai government wants this to succeed as much as anyone else.

HKDL is a good comparable, until the recent downturn they have been profitable for almost their entire existence.

 

[OKW Lover]

HKDL is a good comparable, until the recent downturn they have been profitable for almost their entire existence.

Thank you for posting this. I've been reading some of the comments and wondering why people have been ignoring the fact that there already is a Disneyland park in China and seem to think that Shanghai is blazing new trails.

 

[LeeAndRobin]

Tell China that. They have not given up control of the people. I don't think you want to speak up against the government.

Communism is an *economic* system. It has nothing to do with how they treat their people. They are a totalitarian *government*. The two things are different, but most people confuse them because most if not all communist countries have been totalitarian.

 

[rteetz]

Disneyland Shanghai is partially owned by the Shanghai government and by extension the Chinese government as a whole. Do you really think that they won't protect their investment? The Shanghai government wants this to succeed as much as anyone else.

HKDL is a good comparable, until the recent downturn they have been profitable for almost their entire existence.

The Shanghai government is the majority owner of Shanghai Disneyland.

 

[Accident]

As someone that works with companies is heavy competition with each other...

This is what you call someone scared, seeing ticket sales down and thinking that punching the elephant will make others think about not visiting it. In reality, he just told his customers that disney is the better park and if they didn't know about disney yet, they sure as hell do now... I love when companies call out the one I work for, we grow so much faster with their customers flocking to use us instead it's better than paid advertising..

 

[oddman]

I think the primary point of Mr Wanda's attack has been overlooked.

He is most likely attempting to frame Disney as an external aggressor. An aggressor that is attacking a home grown hero, thus he might influence public opinion by some measure.

The Chinese have a strong sense of pride in their achievements and many resent foreigners coming in and trying to profit off them. Just as many Americans take umbrage at Chinese companies trying to buy a port, or high profile buildings/ companies.

If Wanda is successful he may corral or divert dithering clients to his parks instead.

Make it them against us and national pride rears its head.

 

[Accident]

Does anyone know what the actual deal disney has to be there? I don't know of any non-china based companies that don't have a separate entity that is majority owned by someone in china. Just like shanghai disney where majority owner isn't disney.

 

[Lesverts]

Communism is an *economic* system. It has nothing to do with how they treat their people. They are a totalitarian *government*. The two things are different, but most people confuse them because most if not all communist countries have been totalitarian.

China is complicated politically. It is a one-party system that has elements of technocracy, meritocracy and nepotism. Middle managers in the Chinese government are often highly skilled in particular fields, there are clear lines of promotion through merit and loyalty and there are also family connections in the higher end of things. The current President, Xi Jinping, is the son of a former standing committee member Xi Zhongxun. China's only trait of communism left is that there is still substantial state ownership and economic control. But even that is loosening as the government can't afford to subsidize millions of jobs any further.

 

[mshanson3121]

HKDL is a good comparable, until the recent downturn they have been profitable for almost their entire existence.

Not sure where you got that idea. Go back to page 1:

Hong Kong Disneyland had seven straight years of losses until finally making a profit in 2012. It made money for a few years then had a loss for fiscal 2015.

 

[rteetz]

Not sure where you got that idea. Go back to page 1:

Hong Kong Disneyland had seven straight years of losses until finally making a profit in 2012. It made money for a few years then had a loss for fiscal 2015.

While 7 years isn't good the first few years a theme park operates they don't always make a profit right away.