Chemistry Woes/Advice for dropping class

[skater]

I had a similar (though not quite as bad) situation with my second semester Freshman Organic Chemistry professor. Note that this was 2nd semester, so everyone in it had already gotten through the first half of the course (with an awesome teacher). The replacement professor had just learned he'd lost his tenure at the school and, since he was a foreign national, would likely have to be heading back home. He basically didn't care about us at all. The difference between your DD's experience and mine was that our guy DID grade on a curve. I remember getting an early exam back with 26 out of 114 points and realizing, given the class average, that it was a B grade and I wasn't doing so bad. I had at least 2 friends drop the class after that test.

Should she drop the class. Almost certainly. Should she talk to her advisor. Yes. Sometimes a school will be willing to let an entire class fail, but often they are not. Regardless, they will want to reprimand their teacher if and when they find out about what he's doing to their paying students.

Your teacher wasn't preparing you for anything at all. I think you wrote the key word here - paying. We will lose money when she drops this class and I"m not even sure how it may affect her scholarships. I don't want her to be handed a grade, but of course, I"m hoping for a fighting chance.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

There definitely could be some other factors than the teacher, and I haven't ruled out the possibility that there are some good life lessons here. (But aren't they painful to go through ). I know that she can learn Chemistry, but it is probable that she will need to work harder on it.

Can't agree more.

I am one of those people who doesn't get a lot out of being in the classroom as far as learning the subject goes - actual learning requires me to sit down with the book for extended periods of time and not move on to the next page until I fully understand what was said on the previous page. I distinctly remember pouring over my chemistry books for hours on end until I understood the material. Painful, for sure. But once I got the hang of it, it came fairly easily.

From what I can see, it doesn't seem like many kids today have these types of study habits. I'm not sure why. It's something I'm working on with my own two.

 

[RitaZ.]

You definitely nailed it. And her self esteem is taking a beating. I don't necessarily think its terrible that she's struggling in a class - it hits most of us at some point. I don't even think its terrible that she has a difficult instructor - life is full of difficult people. I just wish it was a little more manageable because I know she can do it. I am wondering if at some point, she should speak to the department head. This teacher is newly hired and maybe he needs some feedback on his teaching style.

She absolutely should talk to the department chair. It will be even better if she can get other classmates to go with her to speak to the department head.

I had a very unreliable professor (an M.D.) for an A&P lab. He had a long distance to travel (so he said) to get to campus and was always late. It didn't matter how late he got to class, we still had to complete the full lab for that day. So, some of us got together and went to speak to the department chair. She listened to us and promised that she'd look into it. Something must have happened because the professor was never late to class again.

OP, I would encourage her to do this. Community colleges hire a lot of adjunct professors. If they are ineffective and inconsistent, they shouldn't be teaching. For core classes, professors have to meet specific academic goals set by the department.

GPAs mean a lot, period. If they didn't, everyone could get F's and still graduate with a degree.

 

[jlewisinsyr]

I'll chime in and also say GPAs can matter, even in the "real" world of work. Sure, a basic 3.00 or 3.25 GPA doesn't mean much compared to a 2.50, but for a recent graduate that has a 3.75 or higher, it can be a deciding factor in getting a job at a preferred employer.

 

[Planogirl]

I dropped a few classes and it never affected me but then I didn't have a scholarship to worry about. Other than that, I don't see the big deal.

 

[castleview]

Agreed! And I have to add that although classes are important, in any science course it's the work you do on your own and in the lab that really makes a difference. Your professor isn't the only one teaching you -- there are lab techs and tutorial leaders there to highlight the important points. So your daughter's marks may not be only the professor's fault. I second the advice to talk to the advisor, but she may be missing some of the basics in chemistry and might need to study harder and get more help. Or chemistry might not be for her.

I actually started out first year economics failing on the assignments - I put some extra work in and I got it! Happy to say I now have my Masters in Economics -- it was straight A's after that.

Absolutely. Google is your friend. Keep in mind also that the getting used to the math and the conversions is a major hump in chemistry. If she can get past that okay, she'll be fine. But definitely have her check her answers on the computer or get some sort of guide (even the For Dummies books are helpful). Chemistry and Physics are not all memorization like Anatomy is. You are applying it now and teachers tend to go at the speed of their class getting it, not by a pre-arranged schedule.

 

[ccgirl]

DD is in her freshman year at a community college. She took two classes last year and did well, so she went in feeling good about her abilities. She is typically a straight A student - even in the harder subjects, and she enjoys Science.

Here is the problem. She currently has a grade of 55 in Chemistry and this grade is higher than the class average. The instructor says he won't grade on a curve. He does things like teach part of a class and then says "Bye" when he's tired of teaching (and she is sitting there wishing he would teach). When he can't figure out power point, he won't use the blackboard and everybody's lost with his verbal ramblings. The first major exam was too long, so he tells the class mid way through the test that he will only grade what they were able to complete. So my DD slowed down and worked hard on what she was able to finish. When he returned it, he apparently changed his mind and everybody got zeros for the uncompleted sections. From everything she is telling me, it sounds like he doesn't teach.

I think she probably needs to withdraw from the class to save her gpa and try Chemistry again with a different instructor. I think she should first talk with her advisor, the instructor, and maybe even the department head about this situation. I don't think she can trust the instructor to be straight forward with her based on things he has said in the past and then backed out of. My DD just wants to quietly drop the class. Any thoughts on how I can convince her that she should at least discuss the ramifications of dropping a class with her advisor and possibly ascertain if the Chemistry Dept. is really going to allow the majority of the class to fail with no chance of fixing the situation? Or do you think I should just let her handle it the way she chooses?

Bolded mine. I have a BS in Biology and the bolded is usually true of any science class. You have to know the material to get the grade. While my DD was in a non-science major and they were usually curved. I took Organic Chem I twice, once with a D and once with a C, before I took it at another college and transferred that in with a B. If she is college age, please let her make her own decisions and exert some of her indepedence. If she wants to drop it quietly let her. Chemistry is a very hard subject. Does she need it?

 

[castleview]

Can't agree more.

I am one of those people who doesn't get a lot out of being in the classroom as far as learning the subject goes - actual learning requires me to sit down with the book for extended periods of time and not move on to the next page until I fully understand what was said on the previous page. I distinctly remember pouring over my chemistry books for hours on end until I understood the material. Painful, for sure. But once I got the hang of it, it came fairly easily.

From what I can see, it doesn't seem like many kids today have these types of study habits. I'm not sure why. It's something I'm working on with my own two.

Given that they can download power points of the notes, have a lot of fill-in study guides, and are used to test reviews (yes, even at the college level), I think many have no idea what to do on their own. I never thought all that outlining we did back in third and fourth grade would have effected me, but it did apparently. I actually asked one of my professors when they started doing test reviews in college (I was the first one there one day) since I'm so used to be taught from a weed out perspective. He rolled his eyes and said that over the past fifteen years, he's been expected to practically spoon feed the information to students…and that doesn't work 60% of the time.

 

[Caseheidi]

She needs to talk to her advisor about her options. It is possible she could change to Pass/Fail or audit and not affect her GPA.

 

[superme80]

I had a teacher like this once. I ended up dropping the class. So glad I did. I had a couple friends stay in and I don't think too many passed. He was constantly changing the format of the test, adding things he told us NOT to study, and was just an all around jerk. I can take difficult teachers, but at least give your students some respect. I took the class a couple of semesters later and passed.
I would recommend just dropping the class.

 

[mamacatnv]

Sometimes it takes weeks to get in to see their advisers so I would not hinge my decision on that not would I hinge on the refund date. A W is better than an F

My DS is a 5 year college senior right now because he did not strategically drop a few classes his Freshman year, before he figured out how to play the college game for real. He wants to go to grad school and GPA's really do matter, A LOT!

Let your DD decide the course she wants to take. I would stay out of it regarding what she should do in regards to leading her. I would lean heavily towards asking her what it is she wants to do and then letting her do it.

Sure, tell the adviser when she gets a chance'

Don't think that the school has not heard this guy is an idiot before, they probably have and either really don't care or he is protected and there is nothing they can do but they won't tell you that. They will nod in sympathy, let your DD fill out the forms etc when in reality nothing may be done.

 

[dis-happy]

Since she is planning for science to be her future major, I would have her drop the class....she needs to learn this material, as it will be the basis for future classes. My dd did a BS in Bio and O-Chem is a huge weed out class for science majors and people considering going pre-med. Your dd will need to be prepared for this fact later on in her schooling career as well.

Currently my ds is taking bio and chem at the community college as a dual enrolled high school student (we homeschool). Everyone in his class is complaining about the teacher who is foreign born and apparently doesn't teach very well. Supposedly the first big exam did not go well for the majority of the class....there was even a delay on posting the results and after the fact the teacher added 5 pts to everone's score. My son got a 92 then 97 after the extra points; while he is doing well in this class he has already had a high school chem class and he knows how to push in and study hard until he learns the material, even if he has to do it all on his own (something good he's learned as a homeschooler!).

Also, your dd needs to know how much of the grade and final weighted grade is just the exam. In my ds' CC class a big part of the grade includes the lab portion as well. So make sure she is looking at the big picture on the grading as well.

 

[DopeyDame]

I'm an adjunct prof in a science deptartment at a community college (I don't teach chem, so no - I'm not the OP's teacher )
Some really good points have been made:
1. If she wants to go into nursing, she NEEDS chemistry - not just for the grade, but for the material. If she's not learning it well from this prof, she should drop it and try again later.
2. from the college's perspective, dropping it "quietly" vs. talking to everyone about it first makes absolutely no difference. Once she fills out the forms, the registrar will process it. End of story.
3. I would, though, encourage her to talk to someone in the science department. Not in a "this teacher is crappy" manner, but approach them saying "I'm dropping chemistry this semester. What can I do now, and next time I take it, to make sure I'm more successful?" My school offers a chemistry 001 class the second half of every semester. It's a non-credit class for students who dropped out of the intro chem class (there are always a LOT of them every semester.) The class goes over some of the basics, including the math skills, that are necessary to succeed. It also stresses a lot of the study skills that students often lack heading into college and introduces the kids to all of the resources available for help.
4. Whenever she takes chemistry, make sure she knows when the tutoring center hours are, when her profs office hours are, what online tutoring is available, etc., etc. I 99% guarantee you that those things are all available to her - for free - at her college. That doesn't mean she'll get a private tutor from the college, but that there are LOTS of resources available for help. She may need to use every single one of them.
5. Finally, I know you're her mom and that you want to help her. And advising and offering our opinions is what parents do. It's in our very DNA. But now's the time to step back and let her handle this. Listen, commiserate, ask questions, but let her figure out what she wants to do and how best to do it.

Good luck!

 

[ILoveToRun]

GPAs also matter when they decide on magna cum laude or summa cum laude. That is something that DOES matter in the real world.

But also, I have heard by numerous professors that when they admit prospective students into programs, they'll typically look for ones with 3.5-3.99 GPAs opposed to 4.0s. So if she's a 4.0 student, a B here and there isn't going to be horrible, but an F would.

Withdraw from the class!!! In the world of academia when GPA matters a lot for many programs, a B here and there is ok but a C or lower is not. A W, assuming there's only 1 or 2 overall can be explained.

 

[Schmeck]

Of the 15+ years I've been in the workforce, college GPA, summa/magna cum laude, and grades at community college have meant diddly squat for anyone I've come into contact with. I work in education, BTW.

Chemistry is a lot of math, a lot of formulas, and a lot of vocabulary. My guess is that community college General Chemistry isn't much more advanced than AP Chem, or even Honors Chem at the high school level. Did the OP's daughter have any chemistry classes in high school?

The OP mentioned that the daughter's self-esteem is taking a beating - good! If everything taught in her college was easy, then she's in the wrong place. She needs to learn how to teach herself, on top of what is going on in class. It's a good skill to have.

 

[MrsDuck]

Absolutely withdraw. Heck, given those circumstances (if DD is telling the truth.. not saying she isn't but it's worth discussing with her!), I'd drop even if I had to pay for the class!

 

[Bungle]

3. I would, though, encourage her to talk to someone in the science department. Not in a "this teacher is crappy" manner, but approach them saying "I'm dropping chemistry this semester. What can I do now, and next time I take it, to make sure I'm more successful?" My school offers a chemistry 001 class the second half of every semester. It's a non-credit class for students who dropped out of the intro chem class (there are always a LOT of them every semester.) The class goes over some of the basics, including the math skills, that are necessary to succeed. It also stresses a lot of the study skills that students often lack heading into college and introduces the kids to all of the resources available for help.
4. Whenever she takes chemistry, make sure she knows when the tutoring center hours are, when her profs office hours are, what online tutoring is available, etc., etc. I 99% guarantee you that those things are all available to her - for free - at her college. That doesn't mean she'll get a private tutor from the college, but that there are LOTS of resources available for help. She may need to use every single one of them.

Good luck!

I completely agree with both of these points. But also just know that for some people chemistry feels like a foreign language, and will require WAY more work than you anticipate. Chem tutors are great and the khan academy has some great videos that help too.

One thing I'm wondering OP is where the test ?s are coming from. If he isn't giving complete lectures isn't there a book you can study from. I know at least two of my chem classes have been based 90% off of self study versus off of lecture/power point.

 

[SandrA9810]

Withdrawing is nearly the same thing as taking an F. You can still retake the course and petition to get the bad grade off her transcript. All classes here have to be passed with a C or better, D's don't transfer.

Now you have to weigh her options based on any financial aid. I get the Pell Grant which means I must have 12 units each semester to get the full amount. If I withdraw from a class, I have to repay that amount back (or it's withheld from next disbursement). I failed a history course over the summer because the teacher is just awful in prepare the material for online work. I knew I couldn't take a W on it because of the grant, so I plan on enrolling in it next summer and hopefully spend more time on it to get a better grade. I was able to take the hit on my GPA to continue to get the Grant though, and this semester should bring it back above a 3.0

 

[kitgal421]

DROP DROP DROP.

I'm currently a senior in college and there have been a few classes with teachers that are absolutely bat**** crazy. This sounds like one of them. It is not worth losing your sanity, or grades. Dropping those few classes were the best decision I ever made!

One or two W's look much much much better then flat out failing. Tell her to get out while she can and take it again with a sensible teacher!

 

[skater]

Thanks for all the great advice. She has utilized some of the methods suggested here like borrowing other Chemistry books (Idiot's Guide, etc.). There's no way I can say with absolute certainty that she has given it all she can, but I know she's given it a good try. I know she'll learn some life lessons, but I'm not glad her self esteem is suffering. But maybe that's the Mom in me .

She does have a Pell Grant which is why I was hoping she could discuss this with an adviser first, but we'll see if this is an option before the withdraw date.

I am planning on backing off a bit. Its hard to let go .