Changes ahead for 2008 room bookings!!

[SqueakyMouse]

Ugh! That would probably put an end to our annual Christmas trek to WDW.

 

[dclfun]

When we first purchased DVC and the points were quite clear in our planning book and were much higher for the weekend we hemmed and hawed about using our precious points for a Fri/Sat stay. Now we just look at the points chart for the week and don't try and break it all down, which is what we'll probably do for stays booked with cash. It's all a matter of what I'm willing to pay for the length of stay I want. Disney DOES favor longer stays as has been proven with the ticketting. Perhaps they will also change the ability to book a 10 night stay and then call and remove nights when a 5 night stay is not available to book, or charge a penalty for early check out ( as is done with DVC points stays). The people I feel sorry for are the DRC agents who will put up with complaining guests, people who want to break down each night, each "season", each resort, etc vs. just going with their budget to book what they want and considering the whole package vs. the per night rate. I'm not judging someone who needs or wants to look at pricing this way, only stating that I feel it will be a headache for the agents who are doing this sort of research on many calls and esp for guests who will take it out on them if they're angry or upset over the changes. Personally even though it will certainly cost me more, it's just plain good marketting sense on behalf of Disney as was the change to the ticket pricing. ---Kathy

 

[boomhauer]

This thread has been very interesting......

I really don't think Disney is out of line to convert to the industry norm and I really don't think they'll suffer from it whatsoever. There is such a huge demand for WDW resorts and even those here who say "I'll never stay onsite again", will undoubtedly be back onsite when WDW offers some sort of promo like half price dining and the tips will be included. (If you don't understand that, just check out the DDP board)

My prediction is that we'll see room rates go up, more than the norm, but we'll see catagory specific values added for resort guests, giving people more reasons to stay at the Deluxes. Maybe something along the lines of the tiered fastpasses or even different DDP's based on your resort catagory.

It may not happen in 2008, but I think that eventually we'll see something like it. They're going to want to fill the Deluxes and give people more reason to buy DVC.

I don't know. I've thought for some time now that Disney has been pushing the envelope with resort prices. We all know hotel prices are absurd anyways, but the thing with Disney is, their main focus on making money isn't resorts - It's the parks. At least, it used to be.

I think Disney can get away with this but they really need to start being more observant of cleanliness issues at the resorts. I'ev read lots of complaints about this as of late, and noticed it myself last month.

 

[Flyerfan]

I was wondering when Disney was going to do this. I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner.

 

[boomhauer]

Earlier on in this thread someone made an excellent point about the idea is to get people to stay on property longer. I agree - I fail to see how this will do that.

 

[Alicnwondrln]

theres some info on this on the new DISUNPLUGGED
I would check it out

 

[erikthewise]

This was my first thought as well. If they would actually make the weekday rates cheaper than they are now, I could really like this new pricing. However, something tells me that both weekdays and weekends will go up, weekends will just go up farther.

Disney cannot set prices arbitrarily anymore than anyone else can. They have an enormous inventory of rooms and are very interested in keeping occupancy at a high level, which remains a challenge for much of the year. They can only charge what the market will accept, a market that also has an extraordinary number of offsite alternatives. In fact Disney is inviting some of those alternatives onto their own property with the Western Way development zone and the Four Seasons resort.

If the market will pay higher prices, that just means we have been getting sweet deals for a long time.

 

[Geoff_M]

Earlier on in this thread someone made an excellent point about the idea is to get people to stay on property longer. I agree - I fail to see how this will do that.

It's not too hard to see how it might help. The (reported) selection of the weekend nights as the nights to raise prices wasn't by chance. If true, it's clear that occupancy patterns skewed higher on the weekend (you don't raise prices on something people desire less). This is no doubt due to people within a few hours drive that like to do week-end only trips to Disney. During busier times, this would probably result in some resorts selling-out on week-ends while the rest of the week would have lower occupancy rates. Such sell-outs would be a obstacle for a family that would want to fly into Florida for a week-long stay but finds that due to lack of advance planning, the resorts they wanted are booked solid for Fri/Sat night. If Disney makes the reported changes, the aim would be to try and smooth out room demand by making it cheaper to stay mid-week. The net effect, the hope appears, would be to free up rooms on week-ends to help accommodate more families that want longer stays.

For all of the people fretting over the supposed changes for 2008, keep this in mind: WDW is not immune from the laws of economics. If what's reported comes to pass, one of two things will happen:
1) The changes will "work" to Disney's satisfaction, they will meet their operational and financial goals, and the changes will remain in place. If that's the case, then (for Disney) such changes would have been the "right" thing to do.

2) The changes will not "work" and Disney will make changes to the pricing and policies in an effort to try and rectify the situation. If this comes to pass, then we'll see changes that will likely be to our advantage.

 

[Tink10]

I don't know. I've thought for some time now that Disney has been pushing the envelope with resort prices. We all know hotel prices are absurd anyways, but the thing with Disney is, their main focus on making money isn't resorts - It's the parks. At least, it used to be.

I think Disney can get away with this but they really need to start being more observant of cleanliness issues at the resorts. I'ev read lots of complaints about this as of late, and noticed it myself last month.

I agree that resort rates are high & also about the cleanliness issue (though I've only had a really dirty room once). But, people are willing to pay and always have. There really is no offsite comparison to the feeling of staying at a Disney resort. So many repeat visitors are very loyal to one resort & those who are taking a once in a lifetime trip to WDW will almost always stay on property. Even those who only visit every few years will normally stay at a Disney resort because they can not only offer convenience, but the feeling of being totally submersed in the Disney Magic. Off property hotels will never be able to offer that.

Earlier on in this thread someone made an excellent point about the idea is to get people to stay on property longer. I agree - I fail to see how this will do that.

I can see Disney doing something similar to the MYW passes. Sort of a "The longer you stay, the less you pay" scenario. It worked well with the passes & I can see quite a few people extending their trip by a few days if it will give them a discount on their resort stay.

 

[Lewisc]

Vegas has always charged more on most weekends. Vegas gets a lot of weekend guests from the west coast. However the posted room rate is an illusion. Many of the guests are on the casino list and either get rooms comped or discounted.

I suspect some of the weekenders are FL residents or guests with an AP that want to sneak in a quick trick. I don't think that market will accept the kind of posted rate differentials that are present in Vegas.

This will prevent the guests who check in the day before the rates change, particularly at Christmas time. It will also allow Disney to discount nights that are lightly booked but not deeply discount other nights of the stay.

You know, I'm going to Vegas in three weeks for a friend's wedding. I'm staying at the Luxor Monday through Friday. Those four nights I'm staying for $89 a night. Friday and Saturday, it jumps to about $149 or so. And I noticed some nights in the month of July are as low as $59 and as high as $239.

My point is that Disney is just doing what the entire hotel industry has been doing for some time. And before we jump to conclusions, this may end up being a good thing. In value season, we could be paying much lower prices during the week than we have been. Sure, the weekends will be more, but I think it will even out and we'll probably be paying, in total, about the same as we are now. Besides, it sounds to me like they are trying to get more money out of the weekend trippers.

 

["thegirls"]

Disney is not in the hotel business! It is in the entertainment business. Most entertainment businesses know their limits and potential for earnings in this area and accordingly go to the experts (hotel chains) to operate their hotels. Disney has 'pushed' the envelope for years with its mix of hotel/entertainment accommodations. I believe this transition into the competitive world of the hotel business will now put Disney in a true place of comparison-shopping. As a stand-alone hotel chain, they offer nothingin the way of a customer loyalty plan. The opportunities for brand loyalty is currently not offered in this new (highly possible) scenario.
I believe if Disney removes itself from its smoke and mirror stance as a hotel/resort it will fail.
I now pay for the ‘illusion (as only Disney can do) of a hotel/resort accommodation. I am willing to forgo accumulating points/discounts and all other perks that the hotel industry offers because the product is currently priced justabove the competition. I will feel differently if this change occurs and there is no real structure for 'rewards' as is the industry standard in the hotel industry!
And as to the 'perks' of on-site transportation, the dollars saved oof-site should be able to fund(with excess) cab transportation door-to-door daily.
The 'perk' on EMH has no replacement but for me is not enough of a benifit, aone, to affect my decision.

JMHO,
Debbie

 

[mickeyfan2]

I believe that Disney also realized that the frequent weekend visitors spend less per day than the once in a lifetime or every 5 year families spend.

You see it here on the DIS all the time. I go so often and can eat for very little and buy nothing else.

 

[Alicnwondrln]

I wish they had a loyalty program with all our club level trips
it would be nice

 

[EmptyCinema]

You know, it's kindof funny how everytime there's a RUMOR of a change at Disney, it's like the sky is falling! "That's it, I'm NEVER going again!"

Right... so they're changing the computer system to give them the POSSIBILITY of charging more for weekend nights. In other words, they're joining the status quo of hotel chains.

I don't imagine this will change if I stay on- or off-site at all. The perks of staying onsite just outweigh everything else.

Really people, it's not the end of the world.

 

[SplashMountainRocks]

Disney doesn't need to offer a loyalty program, because all of their research shows that we will all continue to visit, again and again, without it. We then tell our friends, and they visit, and tell their friends, etc, etc.

The Disney marketing machine with their TV ads will keep bringing guests to stay onsite.

I've read that Universal charges more for weekends, but I've also read that they sometimes forego that higher charge if you stay for 5 nights or longer - I can definitely see Disney doing something like this - it would be a great tie-in to the "the longer you stay, the less you pay" MYW mantra....

 

[Colleen27]

Right... so they're changing the computer system to give them the POSSIBILITY of charging more for weekend nights. In other words, they're joining the status quo of hotel chains.

I don't think this is the status quo of Orlando hotels, but that "possibly" is important to keep in mind. I don't think charging more for weekends across the board will work for Disney, since the other hotels in the area (including the Swan/Dolphin, who get many of the Disney resort perks, and the Hilton, which gets EMHs) don't do the same. But we don't know that Disney intends to charge more *every* weekend - this might just be the mechanism for them to price the minor holidays that fall within value/regular season higher. Charging more for some random weekend in slow season is likely to turn some customers away and have others looking offsite, but most people will accept that Labor Day weekend or Memorial Day weekend cost more than that random, slow season weekend. And that would be in line with other hotels in the area, from what I've seen; Disney has really been unusual in keeping minor holiday weekends at the same pricing as the season in which they fall.

 

[Disney8704]

Well whatever happens, happens. If Disney makes these changes, theres nothing that we can do except to either stop going to Disney or start staying off site, which I dont think will happen. People will still stay on site and still go to Disney. I just called my AAA TA and put my change of dates in for Aug 2008. I have how much my trip was gonna cost now for this year, so when I get my total in July/August, I will be able to compare prices and see how much it went up. Hopefully it wont go up to much. Personally I think that now Disney is doing this change, there will be more people wanting to stay off site, since staying off site can be cheaper then staying on site. This will definitely happen if they take off the tips for the DDP. One of the main reasons why the resorts are always booked completely is because of the DDP. But I think once the change happens to the pricing for resorts and them taking the tips off the DDP, this will cause people to just wanna stay off site and pay OOP for their meals and maybe even take their dining $ off site. Overall, this could make the resorts less packed and the TS places less packed. I think Disney is gonna end up going back to the way it was 7 - 10 yrs ago when people stayed off site and on site and paid OOP for their meals. Which personally IMO were the good old days. Where you could get a resort room 6 months before your trip and could easily get into a TS place with no ADR.

 

[SplashMountainRocks]

One of the main reasons why the resorts are always booked completely is because of the DDP.

I don't think that this statement is true year-round, during August and September I would agree with you, but not other times of year. I know many people that stay onsite and don't get the dining plan.

 

[pilferk]

What will Disney do when people just stop paying these outrageous rates for a hotel room?

Likely they'll do (assuming you mean "enough" people stop to effect occupancy rates) what most businesses do....they'll make a change to make rooms more attractive, by either lowering prices or offering services that make paying the higher price worthwhile. In other words, pretty much what they've been doing....

We can stay off property at Homewood Suites for less and have a bigger room. And as far as the "advantages" of staying on property... the only thing we'd miss would be package delivery. Otherwise, it's probably quicker to drive our car back to our offsite hotel than wait for the Disney bus. And we have APs, so paying for parking is not an issue.

Are you driving to "the world"? If not, do you usually rent a car when staying on property? Because you need to factor that in when judging the two sites....I know I do. Besides package delivery, you also get EMH (if you use them), convenience of transportation, and other value added services.

I'm not saying you're off base, I'm simply saying that the price changes will have to outweigh the "value" of staying on site to enough guests to make a difference to Disney's bottom line and occupancy rates. Right now, it sure sounds like demand significantly overburdens supply. I dont' dispute this change might lower the demand a bit....I'm just not sure it's enough for Disney to really care.

I love staying at the Disney resorts. But if they're going to start pulling all sorts of new nonsense now, making it even more unaffordable, well it looks like we will be staying off property from now on.

First off, it's not "nonsense". May hoteliers do it in the industry. It's not like they're doing something completely unheard of in the industry.

I would also guess their goal is not to make it "more unaffordable", but to maximize profits without losing enough demand that it effects occupancy rates. If it has a noteworthy negative effect, they'll change back. So, by all means...stay off site and vote with your wallet....and hope enough people follow suit so that Disney needs to change back. But don't make this out to be some personal vendetta that Disney has against it's customers...or make it out that consumers are entitled to pay what THEY want to pay, rather than what DISNEY wants them to pay.

 

[pilferk]

looks like I'll be looking into DVC in the next year or so as well!

C'mon in...the pools nice and warm...and one thing you'll NEVER have to worry about is room rate increases. Dues, yes. Room Rates, no.