Can your boss do this?

[nelle]

Can a boss threaten to give a bad reference if a person requests a transfer within a company?

My daughter is a assistant part-time manager for a very large company in one of their retail stores. Her goal was to start out at the stores and then transfer to another area within the company.
She has been with the company for 1yr and before that she was with another clothing co. for 4yrs.

Yesterday she asked for a transfer (you have to go through your store manager to transfer) and her manager told her "I will never give you a good internal reference if you leave before the end of summer. The amount I have invested in you, I would never be able to find a replacement by then. Thus the flight risk internally is to great and I will never give you a good reference".
Can you do that? She is transferring within the company and probably going to take a pay cut to transfer.

FWIW this will be the second transfer she has stopped. Oddly enough if she stays until Sept. then the next season is the holiday season and they need all the help they can get so if she requests then she probably won't be allowed.
Any thoughts? Just seems unpractical to have to give a 6mo notice to transfer, but I don't know.
Thanks for the help!

 

[sam_gordon]

Can a boss threaten to give a bad reference if a person requests a transfer within a company?

My daughter is a assistant part-time manager for a very large company in one of their retail stores. Her goal was to start out at the stores and then transfer to another area within the company.
She has been with the company for 1yr and before that she was with another clothing co. for 4yrs.

Yesterday she asked for a transfer (you have to go through your store manager to transfer) and her manager told her "I will never give you a good internal reference if you leave before the end of summer. The amount I have invested in you, I would never be able to find a replacement by then. Thus the flight risk internally is to great and I will never give you a good reference".
Can you do that? She is transferring within the company and probably going to take a pay cut to transfer.

FWIW this will be the second transfer she has stopped. Oddly enough if she stays until Sept. then the next season is the holiday season and they need all the help they can get so if she requests then she probably won't be allowed.
Any thoughts? Just seems unpractical to have to give a 6mo notice to transfer, but I don't know.
Thanks for the help!

Why wouldn't they be able to? Is it a crappy thing to do? Yes, but I don't know what would prevent them from doing so.

 

[okeydokey]

Can a boss threaten to give a bad reference if a person requests a transfer within a company?

My daughter is a assistant part-time manager for a very large company in one of their retail stores. Her goal was to start out at the stores and then transfer to another area within the company.
She has been with the company for 1yr and before that she was with another clothing co. for 4yrs.

Yesterday she asked for a transfer (you have to go through your store manager to transfer) and her manager told her "I will never give you a good internal reference if you leave before the end of summer. The amount I have invested in you, I would never be able to find a replacement by then. Thus the flight risk internally is to great and I will never give you a good reference".
Can you do that? She is transferring within the company and probably going to take a pay cut to transfer.

FWIW this will be the second transfer she has stopped. Oddly enough if she stays until Sept. then the next season is the holiday season and they need all the help they can get so if she requests then she probably won't be allowed.
Any thoughts? Just seems unpractical to have to give a 6mo notice to transfer, but I don't know.
Thanks for the help!

If I were her I would call the corporate office and have them clarify the policy.

 

[Cinderella94]

Why wouldn't they be able to? Is it a crappy thing to do? Yes, but I don't know what would prevent them from doing so.

I don't know for a fact but logically I agree with this.

 

[bookgirl]

Technically when someone calls into our HR department they only give dates employed and whether or not they are eligible for rehire. In house there is always internal evaluations that can be reviewed.

Unofficially, people who know people reach out and personal opinions are common. Been that way every single place I've worked. Honestly if I reach out to someone and I get a non-committal generic reply I assume that is a reflection of the employee. It wouldn't be the only thing I judge on but if I'm on the fence and I didn't get an enthusiastic reply or a 'oh man she's one of my best don't poach her", then I assume there are only a mediocre or bad employee.

 

[DLgal]

She wants to transfer after only a year to a job with less pay? Why?

That's a pretty fast turnover. Most bosses wouldn't look favorably on an employee who bails after just one year...

 

[janicept]

My husband works in banking and they do shady business like that in his work also. She would still have her employee reviews that would hopefully show that her manager does not have a bad opinion of her work. If it's a specific manager she would be transferring to she could contact them direct. Honestly if it falls through she may also want to try looking for another job outside her current company. If the transfer is due to extenuating circumstances (like moving) she shouldn't be penalized or have to wait for a certain time.

 

[rastahomie]

Internally (viz, within a company), I suppose the manager can do whatever she wants, unless company policy specifically spells something out about it. Externally, most companies won't tell any other companies anything except dates employed and whether or not the person is eligible for rehire*; too many lawsuits.

*Some companies won't even give you that much. I once had a temp job vetting truck drivers for a major truck-driving company, and I was required to call their previous employers and verify their applications. If I had a dollar for every time I got hung up on or told to buzz off (and I got a different word other than "buzz"), I'd be rich.

 

[QueenIsabella]

Yes, companies can do this, and yes, it sucks. I used to work for a Fortune 5 company, and our division had a similar policy. If you were any good at your job, you didn't have a snowball's chance to transfer to another division. people who wanted to leave our division, had to leave the company. It wasn't true in all divisions--in some, they actively encouraged people to move around and gain a wide range of experience. Not ours.

I know there are laws about what Company A can say to Company B, but when it's internal, all bets are off. HR can be very candid about why her manager doesn't want her to go.

I recommend your DD look for similar work, if possible, in another company that doesn't pull this crap.

 

[amberpi]

Technically when someone calls into our HR department they only give dates employed and whether or not they are eligible for rehire. In house there is always internal evaluations that can be reviewed.

Unofficially, people who know people reach out and personal opinions are common. Been that way every single place I've worked. Honestly if I reach out to someone and I get a non-committal generic reply I assume that is a reflection of the employee. It wouldn't be the only thing I judge on but if I'm on the fence and I didn't get an enthusiastic reply or a 'oh man she's one of my best don't poach her", then I assume there are only a mediocre or bad employee.

I've only worked for huge multi national, multi billion dollar corps, and as managers, directors, vps, we are ABSOLUTELY under no circumstances to say a word one way or the other. We refer any inquiries to HR and they will provide dates of employment and ending title. I fired a woman for twice giving a reference. It was too much liability on the company. The individual was a good employee, but we knew nothing about her current circumstances and wouldn't have that come back on the firm if the new employer said xyz company said they were amazing. She was warned and had to sign that she understood the policy and did it again like a month later for the same person. It sucks, but its policy, send all those inquiries to HR, don't even acknowledge you know the individual. Pretty cut and dry.

OP - I don't understand why your daughter isn't working with HR for the transfer? Why does the local person have anything to do with it? That's foreign to the way I've seen it done, but, admittedly, know jack and squat about retail, so I might be talking out my hiney!

 

[Lilacs4Me]

In my former large, global company all transfers went through our managers as well. If we went through HR or talent aquisition, the first thing they would do is notify our manager for a business review of the person and to decide whether the state of the department's business was such that would support losing an employee at that time. It was always in our best interest to give our manager a head's up that they would be getting an email from HR before they actually got it.

Any good manager would absolutely work with the employee and HR, as well as the new manager, to create a transition plan for the employee, but I can also tell you that my own manager, while being "helpful" in the transition outwardly, harbored resentment to a degree, and would also try to delay the transition as long as possible.

Right before I left the company in Jan, there was a man in my dept who was promoted to a new department, and he finally had to just stand up for himself and tell her in no uncertain terms that he NEEDED to have time to train over there and when was she going to let that happen? She was delaying because A. He was her favorite, he was like a son to her, and B. She knew his 7 years of experience couldn't be replaced by a new person right away and she didn't want to deal with it.

My old boss was an amazing person and boss. She loved all of us like we were family and would literally do most anything for us. But in certain little ways, she was very quirky, and that was one of them.

So, yes, since managers are human, emotion comes into play, and they say/do things that they might view as a "business need" when it comes to retain g their employees or keeping them from transitioning to a new department. I'm sure a little of "why is this department (or, why am I) not good enough for you anymore?" hurt feelings are often involved too.

 

[low-key]

"The Man" could do what ever he wants

 

[diznymom]

Happens all the time.

 

[fdefulvio]

"Ethics" is a huge topic within our corporation. We even have an Ethics department. I would absolutely contact HR and explain the situation. Threatening behavior from a manager would not be tolerated.
Hopefully she has a history of positive reviews, and a lack of any negative actions on file to validate her statements to HR.

 

[Lisa F]

She wants to transfer after only a year to a job with less pay? Why?

That's a pretty fast turnover. Most bosses wouldn't look favorably on an employee who bails after just one year...

part time assistant manager in retail is not one of those jobs that most people aspire to make a career out of. It is probably a stepping stone for most people, just the nature of the business.

I would probably be talking to HR about that. If the store manager is saying that she will tell people that the daughter didn't stay for more than a year and a lot of training was invested in her in the job and she is a "flight risk" (what an odd way of putting it, it's like being out on bail) then that is accurate and true and you can't do anything about that. If the store manager is threatening to give a dishonest review about her performance in retaliation for her wanting to leave then it is not ok. But in either case, this is why big companies have HR departments with people who are trained to deal with this stuff... so I'd utilize it.

Internal transfers are rough. I think most people who end up in a situation like your daughter's just end up finding a job outside of the company because the internal politics is too screwed up.

 

[Micca]

her manager told her "I will never give you a good internal reference if you leave before the end of summer. The amount I have invested in you, I would never be able to find a replacement by then. Thus the flight risk internally is to great and I will never give you a good reference".

"Then I'm going to need a raise or I walk." Of course that's not something your DD should say, but the manager is really setting himself up by stating his/her position so poorly. Here is a perfect opportunity for that manager to keep your DD in the department and feel motivated to do great work such that at a future date she would receive a positive reference for a transfer. Instead she now resents him/her.

 

[adisneyaunt]

Should it happen, no. HR should/typically handles it. But does it happen, yup ..
going to HR at this point to complain about it won't help her get the transfer.. it'd look like she was going behind that same managers back. Not seeing that as helpful.
And I think it's awful that this happened to her!

It's really important employees know the policies within the company. It can avoid these type situations and clarify what the expectations should be for moves laterally etc.
sounds like she may want to look outside the company. Best of luck to her.

 

[ronandannette]

One thing that's being overlooked is the cold, hard fact that a company's priority is its own best interest, not that of the employee - period. Employee wants a transfer for whatever reason? Who cares - if that person is more valuable to the company in their current role it's an unreasonable expectation the a manger would pave the way for the change. It would be more straight-forward just to deny the transfer request outright though, rather than what seems to be happening in this situation.

 

[nelle]

Thank you everyone for the replies! We have a family business so I'm not really up on how big corps work.
A little more info:
She has to go to her manager to request a transfer. Her co-worker tried to transfer without going to the manager and she got massacred by the manager, it was not pretty or nice.
This manager is a bully, I've seen it first hand when I used to work very part-time there I've had other workers come up and say to me "why is she so mean and make them cry", I also had to turn off my earpiece when she was yelling at someone though it cause I was checking someone out. She is only a bully to the other managers, not the hourly employees. She threatens terminations, throws hardware, and harasses them day and night(my daughter has kept all the texts from her). I told my daughter not to take a management position but she thought she could handle it.
This manager has gotten in trouble for a high manager turn-over, but she always says well they just stepped down and it's her word against theirs(this is a favorite line of hers).

So, yes, since managers are human, emotion comes into play, and they say/do things that they might view as a "business need" when it comes to retain g their employees or keeping them from transitioning to a new department. I'm sure a little of "why is this department (or, why am I) not good enough for you anymore?" hurt feelings are often involved too.

This is exactly what it is. She doesn't want anyone to get above her and succeed.

part time assistant manager in retail is not one of those jobs that most people aspire to make a career out of. It is probably a stepping stone for most people, just the nature of the business.

I would probably be talking to HR about that. If the store manager is saying that she will tell people that the daughter didn't stay for more than a year and a lot of training was invested in her in the job and she is a "flight risk" (what an odd way of putting it, it's like being out on bail) then that is accurate and true and you can't do anything about that. If the store manager is threatening to give a dishonest review about her performance in retaliation for her wanting to leave then it is not ok. But in either case, this is why big companies have HR departments with people who are trained to deal with this stuff... so I'd utilize it.

Internal transfers are rough. I think most people who end up in a situation like your daughter's just end up finding a job outside of the company because the internal politics is too screwed up.

This job was a stepping stone for her, she always said that she wasn't going to stay here but use this as a ladder move up. She has learned a ton(mostly how not to treat people). Her manager knew she wasn't going to stay and that there was no growth for her here, but she doesn't like it now that it has happened.
The manager told my daughters co-worker last night that my daughter was quitting in a month, I know exactly what that means and I told my daughter that it means she is going to make her life a living hell until she makes you quit. I've seen her do this first hand and my daughter has seen it as well. My daughter has the support of two former asst managers(they were forced to step down by her)so hopefully they will back her up.
Thanks again!

 

[Sydney2977]

I have worked in retail at the same location for almost 20 years and I am an assistant store manager at present. I can not imagaine anyone in our company acting that way and staying on! We have an excellent HR dept. and all claims and issues are handled by them, sometimes even involving our asset protection teams. They don't just take someone's word for it because they are in a higher position like a manager. As someone in a leadership position it is truly my job to develop talent and have my employees move up in the company- they encourage it! Of course there are people who just want a simple part time job and aren't looking to move up, but we actually seek out ones who are. We had a trainee that pretty quickly moved up to the corporate office, department supervisors that got store manager positions, and the one I was most proud of was one I personally trained and encouraged to put in for a special management position in Washington, DC. I hated to see her go because I was close to her and she was a great asset to our store, but you have to do what's best for them and what will benefit the company in the long run. She is very happy and successful now and I couldn't be prouder of her. Within our store, my general manager and other assistant manager and I discuss moving selling, operational, and cashiering associates between different roles and departments based on their wants and strengths, and we do the same for leadership roles. We may say " But Susie is so good at x..." then say "Well we really need to move her here because it will allow her to develop and grow."

It sounds like your daughter may need to find a different company to work for. If her goal is to learn and move up she should be with a company that will encourage her, not one that will amke it a struggle for her. If they can't recognize her talents and reward her for it- they're not worth it! That's not even mentioning the abusive boss she has.