BREXIT......How do you feel Brits? Excited??

[JaxDad]

They only feel that way because they have heard so much of it themselves over time.

This!

I personally try not to engage in this behavior, but I hear it all the time, including from our elected officials...

 

[BadPinkTink]

Also in Northern Ireland they have duel citizenship. Most people get a UK Passport. On Friday I saw in the Irish news that there was a huge increase in Irish passport applications. This is people from Northern Ireland claiming their second citizenship and UK people who have duel citizenship from having an Irish parent.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

They only feel that way because they have heard so much of it themselves over time.

Baloney.

 

[mom2rtk]

Baloney.

Phooey.

 

[Laura]

I agree they are very different, but I think they are more similar than you are suggesting. We (US) were colonists, not a nation taken over by an occupying force. We were one of a coalition of colonies under the umbrella of England and we wanted to break away and establish our own independence. And while fighting a war for independence is drastically different than just casting a vote, that's simply because the results of an election wouldn't have been honored by England. Had they given us the option, I'm sure we would have just held an election.

The other thing is the group that the UK "voluntarily joined" was basically just an economic common market of 12 countries - back in the '70's. Without any further vote by the British people it morphed into a political union with 26 members, a European Parliament with the power to change UK laws, a European Supreme Court with the power to overrule UK courts - and UK immigration and agricultural policies that are dictated by a foreign entity.

That's why I see this more like gaining independence - even for those that are old enough to have voted to join the coalition back in the 70's.

You're missing a key point--taxation without representation. The UK is represented in the European Parliament, which is hardly being "dictated by a foreign entity." The colonies were not represented in Westminster. Whatever I think about Brexit, it's not at all like the American Revolution. The EU is basically saying, "Don't let the door slam on your way out," not "This. Means. WAR!"

 

[godders]

You're missing a key point--taxation without representation. The UK is represented in the European Parliament, which is hardly being "dictated by a foreign entity."

Actually the European Parliament has very little actual power and the unelected executive arm (European Commission) is what has been dictating terms and that's what many voters object to. And as others have said Brits in general, even those who voted to leave, don't necessarily have a problem with being part of the European Economic Community. What they do want is the option to for example have a skilled workers list for people we'd like to have in the country not unlike Australia. We'd like to have more autonomy when it comes to our legal justice system. There is a very big difference between the economic group we joined in the 70s and the European Union of today.

As for Europe not declaring war I think there are some who would like to make an example out of the UK and make things as awful of possible to frighten others into not holding similar referendums. Hopefully pride will be defeated by sensible thinking and everyone will come out relatively unscathed

 

[Laura]

Actually the European Parliament has very little actual power and the unelected executive arm (European Commission) is what has been dictating terms and that's what many voters object to. And as others have said Brits in general, even those who voted to leave, don't necessarily have a problem with being part of the European Economic Community. What they do want is the option to for example have a skilled workers list for people we'd like to have in the country not unlike Australia. We'd like to have more autonomy when it comes to our legal justice system. There is a very big difference between the economic group we joined in the 70s and the European Union of today.

As for Europe not declaring war I think there are some who would like to make an example out of the UK and make things as awful of possible to frighten others into not holding similar referendums. Hopefully pride will be defeated by sensible thinking and everyone will come out relatively unscathed

As far as I am aware, the UK is also represented in the EC. And fighting a war is really not the same as being threatened that one will be made an example of--rather vague. So I'm not sure how one can parallel Brexit with the American Revolution. The signers of the Declaration of Independence knew that if this failed, they could be executed for treason. Brexit voters have no such fear. The EU will still want to do business with the UK.

 

[Realfoodfans]

I agree they are very different, but I think they are more similar than you are suggesting. We (US) were colonists, not a nation taken over by an occupying force. We were one of a coalition of colonies under the umbrella of England and we wanted to break away and establish our own independence. And while fighting a war for independence is drastically different than just casting a vote, that's simply because the results of an election wouldn't have been honored by England. Had they given us the option, I'm sure we would have just held an election.

The other thing is the group that the UK "voluntarily joined" was basically just an economic common market of 12 countries - back in the '70's. Without any further vote by the British people it morphed into a political union with 26 members, a European Parliament with the power to change UK laws, a European Supreme Court with the power to overrule UK courts - and UK immigration and agricultural policies that are dictated by a foreign entity.

That's why I see this more like gaining independence - even for those that are old enough to have voted to join the coalition back in the 70's.

Please all note if you are not already aware - we as individuals weren't given a vote to join in the first place.

 

[godders]

As far as I am aware, the UK is also represented in the EC. And fighting a war is really not the same as being threatened that one will be made an example of--rather vague. So I'm not sure how one can parallel Brexit with the American Revolution. The signers of the Declaration of Independence knew that if this failed, they could be executed for treason. Brexit voters have no such fear. The EU will still want to do business with the UK.

We have an unelected representative yes. The EC picks it's own members and that doesn't necessarily mean they have the interests of the country they represent at heart. The remaining EU community is divided. Angela Merkel has said there is no need to be nasty in negotiations with the UK, others in the EU community have made their hopes of "punishing" the UK clear. Fingers crossed the Angela Merkel's will win out over the others.

I also don't think the two things should be equated. That's why I didn't reference it specifically in my post. I will say that war no longer means physical death - there are all kinds nowadays (for example Anonymous declaring a tech/hacking war on ISIS) and some unfortunately would certainly like to see the UK economy die rather than accepting that perhaps the EU needs to become a little more flexible. Only time will tell...

 

[Oreo Cookie]

I don't think comparing the Brexit vote to the American revolution is apples to apples. They are totally different situations.

GB chose to be in the EU, and yes the EU does have a provision for leaving. GB has voted to leave. It's not going to be be all sunshine and rainbows, it's going to be complicated and contentious. There are pros and cons to being in the EU, and it seems that everyone is focusing only on the negatives.

There are benefits to being in the EU. The talk has been about the cons, not the pros. Some of the benefits were access to the single market, elimination of tariffs, custom procedures, free movement of labor, farming subsidies, etc. The EU has considerable clout when negotiating trade deals due to its size. The UK may lose that clout when they leave. The EU right now is in the position of strength when it comes to negotiating power regarding the exit. I would hope that both sides would want to keep the single market benefit, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was with several concessions having to be made by GB including the free movement of labor.

Again, my cousins in London voted 'stay,' and I understand why. I also appreciate the UK voters that chose 'leave' and posted why they voted that way. It give perspective to both sides of the argument.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Wow, what a poor view you have of the those voters.

I have a poor view of those that scam and prey on old people. That category would include media hucksters.

 

[ford family]

I have a poor view of those that scam and prey on old people. That category would include media hucksters.

And I guess, for you, a "media huckster" is anyone who propounds a viewpoint that you don't agree with?

ford family

 

[Laura]

Brexit is really unprecedented, so it's hard to draw direct comparisons with past events. Nothing fits. And it's this lack of a precedent that breeds all the uncertainty as to how it will be handled and what changes will be made--that's what's affecting the pound and the markets.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

I have to admit it's been eye opening reading some views.

Yes, of course there are people who don't necessarily understand economics........not my strongest point I have to say, numbers kind of scare me a little. Words I understand. But like most people I made an effort to understand the implications and benefits of leaving. It may be tough to begin with, well, when we do eventually actually exit, but long term I think it's for our benefit. Others see it differently of course.

I think unless you have lived in the UK and had to deal with the issues the EU have caused over the years, it's hard to understand the strength of feeling against it.

My husband has work colleagues in Holland and they have always spoken of wanting to do the same thing along with Norway. Today it was being reported in our media that indeed, these countries are starting to talk about this more.

It's actually not difficult. We literally have the vote tally that expresses exactly that and the actual numbers tell a different story; 52% of people supported leaving the EU and 48% of people supported remaining in it. I'd call that a close divide with an obvious majority opposed to continued membership in the EU, but it appears that for every 52 people with feelings against it there are 48 people who value the EU. To put it another way, I don't doubt that in your social circle of 52 individuals there was a visceral and negative reaction to continued EU membership, but remember that there is another social circle with just four fewer people that does not agree with you or your assessment.

Maybe the money we won't be paying into the EU every year will balance this out.

The U.K. Pays in Billions every year, billions to the EU.

No I don't have the facts in front of me........as its Friday night I have a glass of wine in front of me, but I don't believe this will stop research going ahead.

There will be lots of scare stories out there right now, naturally.

According to Nigel Farage, you probably shouldn't be counting on that redistribution of funds being anywhere close to automatic (I'm sure you've seen it, but in case you haven't, it's in the video embedded in an otherwise also interesting article to which I've linked below).

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...erwhelmingly-votes-in-favour-of-a7101311.html

It will be interesting to see if the UK's net contribution to the EU (about $8.5 billion, or $133 per citizen) is offset by the economic drag the departure causes. It's about three tenths of one percent (0.3%) of the UK's GDP, so I think the drag will exceed it and cost more than $8.5bn. The distribution of that net cost (whether it's greater than or less than $8.5bn) will be different, but it will be there, and most likely it will fall more heavily on the working class.

 

[CPanther95]

And I guess, for you, a "media huckster" is anyone who propounds a viewpoint that you don't agree with?

ford family

Must be if what they're reporting in the US is true - that the BBC had applied a full court press of constant "Remain" ads inundating the British airwaves. CNN made it sound like if there was any side that was utilizing the "media hucksters" to the largest degree, it was in support of remaining in the EU.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I have to believe many of the over 50's who voted in favor of leaving really didn't have a full understanding of the consequences of their vote.
@A_Princess'_Daddy made a lot of sense to me in his post #22.

Otherwise, why would people choose years of volatility and economic uncertainty as they head toward retirement?

Sometimes there are things that are just more important than money. And this, I think, is one of those times.

On a side note: The viewpoint that the majority of Brits only voted the way they did because they must just be too stupid to know any better - is pretty insulting ... and petty.

Is it ever! You'd have to be dead to not have a strong sense about things one way or another. Even if someone can't debate the issues, they still have feelings, and those feelings count, too. It's really obnoxious to keep saying that people who voted a certain way didn't understand the issues. Have those considered that people have their "own way" of understanding the issues and that those ways are just as valid as anyone else's ways?

IMO that attitiude - on both sides - accounts for a lot of what's gotten us where we are today, in the first place.

No disrespect or argument but can you tell me where you are getting the figures from, I'm interested in reading about it all. Everything I've heard and read i.e Wallstreet Journal, Business News says the pound is at the lowest exchange rate in 30 years. I'm hoping what I just heard on CNN is incorrect but just heard that UK has lost 200 billion since the vote....surely not.

I do know that it has affected 401Ks and IRA's dramatically and will continue downward from all predictions, a loss that any of us within retirement age in a year or two will not be able to recoup. May not be a lot of warm fuzzy feelings for UK after this by a certain demographic.

You do understand that the media is biased and they want you to think a certain way, right? I get that this is upsetting to you, but some of you are sounding a little panicked in your posts. Take all of what you read with a grain of salt.

They had almost 3 years notice to educate themselves to whatever extent they desired. I don't think there's much more you can do to force people to become knowledgeable.

Even in this country, there's no intelligence test to retain your right to vote.

So true. My mother's almost 91 but age really doesn't have a lot to do with it. She would never have been able to have a political discussion even when she was younger. But she watches TV, reads the paper, and has plenty of discussions with people who all feel differently about issues. And she formulates a like or dislike of candidates and issues based on her feelings. At times I've discussed things with her, she comes up with some pretty valid points, that come from the heart, even if they might not always be the same as my opinions, so I respect them, and her feelings. To me, it's incredibly insulting to hear people insinuate that only the "educated" are making good choices. Everyone's opinion matters, however they came to it. And I'd guess that older people have a lot of wisdom. Too bad that wisdom is no longer respected in our society, as it still is in some other societies.

Saw this on Facebook. Such a shame for the youth that their future has been decided by people who won't be around to see it and live with the consequences.
View attachment 177278

Again, dire predictions - from Facebook, no less. Again, slanted media. I think we are going to find out some very interesting things from the upcoming lawsuit against FB, Google and Twitter (in the San Bernadino case) and how they've attempted (perhaps successfully) to sway people's opinions. Pretty ironic, IMO.

 

[CPanther95]

Some good news for those that had expressed concern earlier....... according to HBO, the producers have released a statement saying that Game of Thrones filming will not be affected at all by the Brexit vote.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

Not unexpectedly, the UK's long-term credit outlook has been downgraded to negative by Moody's, which will make credit more expensive and difficult to secure.

https://www.moodys.com/research/Moo...-sovereign-rating-to-negative-from--PR_350566

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

And I guess, for you, a "media huckster" is anyone who propounds a viewpoint that you don't agree with?

ford family

You'll find I don't pay much attention, nor give much weight to personal attacks.

 

[Oreo Cookie]

Some good news for those that had expressed concern earlier....... according to HBO, the producers have released a statement saying that Game of Thrones filming will not be affected at all by the Brexit vote.

Good news indeed! Sometimes we need a little humor when discussing a serious and divided topic.