Boy Scouts of America

[TinkerbellMama]

Hey everyone...
I'd really like to hear your experiences with BSA, both good and bad...particularly if your son is currently a Scout, or if you or your son are Eagle Scouts or former Scouts of any rank. Yes, I am aware of the discrimination issue(s), and that is the main reason for my post.
My father-in-law is a former Scoutmaster (one word???) and my brother-in-law is an Eagle Scout. Dh was a scout, but dropped out at some point along the way. My father was a Scout (First Class, I think he said??) and my brother was a Cub Scout (also a dropout). They all seem to have enjoyed the experience, and I am seriously considering allowing my son to participate if he is interested, but...
We are atheists who attend a Unitarian church pretty much every Sunday, now. I would say we are spiritual but not religious. I am unsure about the level of theism involved in participation with BSA. FIL says it varies from troop to troop, but isn't it right there in the creed or law or whatever, that you worship God??? Well, we don't, and I would be surprised if ds does (eventually), either (in the traditional sense). I won't ask nor allow him to lie about that...does that automatically disqualify him?? Also, I do have a problem with the exclusion of GLBT persons from BSA. A big problem. And yet, I do see the positive in the organization. As FIL said, religion is not emphasized in all troops, and other than the creed/law/whatever (wish I could remember; I'm sure someone will help me out on this) and some vague prayers at special events, it was never mentioned in his troop.
I know there are alternative scouting organizations, and I would look into those, as well. It's just that BSA is everywhere and there is a strong family connection, so I don't want to dismiss that idea outright, when it would mean so much to his uncle and grandfather.
Thoughts?? He won't be eligible for Tiger Cub until September, 2010, so I have time...

 

[TinkerbellMama]

Anyone???

 

[TurboKitty]

My son dropped out.

The good; he loved camping and the week long trips they had. He made some friends and got to learn things we wouldn't know where to take him to learn, like archery and shooting.

The bad; strong religious overtones with the meetings being held in a church and one of the adult leaders VERY vocal about his faith,the emphasis of this troop for getting religious badges, boys picking on smaller boys (including my son), parents abusing the email lists, and the price of the outings.

In the Oath, it does mention God.

On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

However, I think that they encourage the boys to believe in something bigger than themselves, rather than a specific diety. Other troops would likely have been a better fit for my son, but then he'd be in a troop with boys he didn't go to school with.

FTR, we are agnostic/athiest and I had issues with BSA's policies toward GLBT leadership. I let my son stay as long as he chose despite these feelings, because of how much he enjoyed the campouts.

 

[Kae]

It all depends on your scout master & den leaders. DS pack has never been overly religious, even though we meet at a church. We had some very horrible year due to a screw up of a Scout Master. But now we have the best Scout Master & have had 2 great years. DS is in Cub scouts at this time & is a Weebleo(sp?) He will move up to Boy Scouts Next Jan. DH is an Eagle Scout & so was his Brother. DH is also a Commette Member for DS's pack. At this time we have are deciding which Troop to put DS in for Boy Scouts I the gotten calls from 2 who would like DS, I am sure it is because DH is a Commitee Member.

Kae

 

[live4christp1]

In response to your questions I've included some numbers that we usually present on our school night sign up. DS has been in scouts since 1st grade (Tigers) - he has almost completed his Arrow of Light and will be transfering to a Boy Scout Troop from our Cub Scout pack in May. It has been a very enjoyable experience for us. DS has gotten to do a lot of activities many children don't experience these days, bb guns, archery, canoeing, primative camping. It has also grown us as a family as in the cub end of it the really encourage family participation. He's also made some really great friends and gained self confidence through participating in the group activites, skits, presentations etc. Our pack is sponsored by a United Methodist church but they don't really take a huge active stance in our group. We have Scout Sunday on occasion and anyone who is interested can attend for flag presentation etc. They let us use their facilities (we are of another denomination and attend another church that has also been gracious enough to allow us the use of their facilities as needed. The scouts do offer a religious course but it isn't required and it is very non-denominational oriented. I guess what I'm trying to say is religion is not crammed down your throat (at least not in our group) if that is what your concern is. If you have any questions let me know. Read the attached below:

If you could give your boy the greatest giftof all, what would it be? It wouldn’t be money or anything money could buy. Whether you are rich or poor, the greatest gift is within your power because that gift is helping a boy become a self-reliant person with a good feeling about himself and a genuine concern for others.

For more than 90 years, the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) have helped families share this priceless gift with boys.

The Impact of Scouting

Many of us remember Scouting from our own experiences or those of our brothers. But how many of us know what impact that Scouting experience has?

A study of the records of Scouts in High schools and colleges reveals that they bear a large amount of responsibility:

88 percent of school newsletter editors

85 percent of student council presidents

81 percent of senior class presidents

77 percent of editors of school annuals

75 percent of business managers of school publications

71 percent of football captains

65 percent of basketball captains



Counted among the alumni of Boy Scouts of America:

85 percent of FBI agents

72 percent of Rhodes scholars

68 percent of the West Point graduates

64 percent of the graduates of the Air Force Academy

26 of the first 29 United States astronauts



Another study shows that of every 100 boys in Scouting:

18 will develop hobbies that will give them lifelong interests

17 will later become leaders in Scouting and will pass on their skills, inspiration and leadership to countless

other youth

12 will receive their first church contact through Scouting

8 will find their future life vocation

5 will receive church religious emblems

2 will reach Eagle Scout rank

1 will enter the clergy due to his Scouting relationships

1 will use Scout skills to save another person’s life

1 will credit Scout skills with saving his own life

Only rarely will one appear in juvenile court

 

[TinkerbellMama]

My son dropped out.

The good; he loved camping and the week long trips they had. He made some friends and got to learn things we wouldn't know where to take him to learn, like archery and shooting.

The bad; strong religious overtones with the meetings being held in a church and one of the adult leaders VERY vocal about his faith,the emphasis of this troop for getting religious badges, boys picking on smaller boys (including my son), parents abusing the email lists, and the price of the outings.

In the Oath, it does mention God.

However, I think that they encourage the boys to believe in something bigger than themselves, rather than a specific diety. Other troops would likely have been a better fit for my son, but then he'd be in a troop with boys he didn't go to school with.

FTR, we are agnostic/athiest and I had issues with BSA's policies toward GLBT leadership. I let my son stay as long as he chose despite these feelings, because of how much he enjoyed the campouts.

Thanks for the information and for sharing your experiences. We are going to homeschool, so that does allow us some leeway in which troop he joins. FIL says he could even join in their town (we don't live there), plus I know there are troops consisting solely of homeschooled boys. I have an interesting, personal definition of the word "god" that would not conflict with that oath, so I could probably be comfortable with him saying it.

 

[mdrob214]

We call it a cult.
DS has been involved since 2nd grade--missed the Tiger year--and is now in Boy Scouts, as of last month when he bridged up. Actually, it's not bad at all. His CS leader was very laid back but our pack leaders were very gung-ho scout people--it made pack meetings once a month very painful.

DS really enjoys all the outdoor and camping activities, and that's why he's stayed with it. Our troop camps once per month--the kids go when they can. Like this weekend there is a camping/fishing trip at a local state park, but DS isn't going because DH is out of town and I don't want him going to his first troop campout without dad. (Call me paranoid--As he gets older and we become more comfortable with the others, he may be allowed to go without a parent, but not in the 5th grade.)

I don't know if he'll hang in long enough to earn an Eagle Scout award, though. At this point they are expected to do more for themselves than they did in Cubs. The older scouts plan all the meetings and activities and guide the younger ones, which is really nice.

We meet in a church (ours, coincidentally) but none of the meetings have had any religion taught or even referenced, really. Other than the mention of God in the oath or promise or whatever, religion never comes up. All faith-related badges, etc. are completely voluntary.

 

[live4christp1]

We have several home school boys in our pack. We really out grew the space the church had set aside for us so we started meeting at the Elementary school, there are two in the county (public) and several in surrounding counties. So we have a mix of boys from different schools, etc. DS actually attends a private school in town near where I work. When we choose our pack we thought there would be boys from our church that he would know since it is in the same county but there were none. But DS has made great friends here, so now he has school friends, church friends, family friends, and scouting friends. He also has many friends we have met at district camps, trips, etc.

I would suggest you contact your area BSA Council and ask for a list of Troops/packs in your area and how to contact them. Talk to the Scout Master or contact and most will even invite you out to visit the group. You don't have to join right then. We had a home school scout transfer from another pack to ours this past year and they came for a couple of weeks before they made the decision to change.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

Well in the Boy Scouts of America

You are allowed to be a Unitarian, Hindu, or Buddhist

You can even be an Atheist as long as you sign the statement about "God." God of course can be a canine that you named in a dyslexic manner because you thought it was funny. As long as you "believe" in him, you are good to go.

You are allowed to be a Gang Member, have a criminal record, or be an illegal immigrant which is known as their "Urban Youth Initiative"

The one thing you can't be is Gay. Gay people are not morally straight and they are dangerous and must be kept away.

I was kind of wishy-washy about it when my son was in 2nd/3rd grade. He joined, really didn't like it much, barely went and dropped out.

My 2nd son never wanted to join.

I really don't think I'd let my 3rd son join because these days, I find the organizations behavior in itself morally crooked and I don't want to accept it.

 

[TinkerbellMama]

It all depends on your scout master & den leaders. DS pack has never been overly religious, even though we meet at a church. We had some very horrible year due to a screw up of a Scout Master. But now we have the best Scout Master & have had 2 great years. DS is in Cub scouts at this time & is a Weebleo(sp?) He will move up to Boy Scouts Next Jan. DH is an Eagle Scout & so was his Brother. DH is also a Commette Member for DS's pack. At this time we have are deciding which Troop to put DS in for Boy Scouts I the gotten calls from 2 who would like DS, I am sure it is because DH is a Commitee Member.

Kae

Thanks for posting...
I see you have a similar family situation. I think it does make a great deal of difference if the family has a Scouting history and is very active in the troop. I know BIL would NOT be an Eagle Scout, but for FIL's involvement over the years.

 

[TinkerbellMama]

Well in the Boy Scouts of America

You are allowed to be a Unitarian, Hindu, or Buddhist

You can even be an Atheist as long as you sign the statement about "God." God of course can be a canine that you named in a dyslexic manner because you thought it was funny. As long as you "believe" in him, you are good to go.

You are allowed to be a Gang Member, have a criminal record, or be an illegal immigrant which is known as their "Urban Youth Initiative"

The one thing you can't be is Gay. Gay people are not morally straight and they are dangerous and must be kept away.

I was kind of wishy-washy about it when my son was in 2nd/3rd grade. He joined, really didn't like it much, barely went and dropped out.

My 2nd son never wanted to join.

I really don't think I'd let my 3rd son join because these days, I find the organizations behavior in itself morally crooked and I don't want to accept it.

Thanks for posting! I am going to have to do some more digging for information, but I can completely understand your "morally crooked" statement. I guess I'm just looking for information regarding their TRUE policies, as opposed to the press they've received or their own statements, kwim? So, information like what you posted is most helpful.

 

[live4christp1]

The Cub Scout Promise reads
I (insert your name here) promise to do my duty to God & my country, to help other people and to obey the law of the pack.

The Boy Scout Oath reads
On my honor I will do my best To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law. To help other people at all times. To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.

Both include statements that are somewhat similar to the same oath our military men and women take when joining.

 

[DisneyMomOK]

My DS is an Eagle Scout. We are not a religious family and I do not believe that aspect impacted him in anyway. The main organization certainly has its problems, but we did not do the popcorn sales, just paid the dues, so felt we were not contributing to the hierarchy. However, my DH was an Asst. Scoutmaster and we contributed a camp stove and other troop items, drove lots of the boys to camp sites, purchased food for camp-outs and did other things that were beneficial for only the boys in my DS's troop. Our DS still loves to camp and just last weekend went rock climbing/camping with friends.

 

[shirleyb]

My oldest will receive his Eagle Scout award next Saturday. My second son is currently a Life Scout and we expect him to earn his Eagle within the next year as well. DH and his brother were both Eagle Scouts.

My kids have had the following experiences within scouts - they've been to Florida -- sailing off the Florida Keys, they've slept on an aircraft carrier in South Carolina, they've been hiking in New Mexico, canoing in Canada, learned first aid and CPR, became life guards, learned leadership skills, etc.

Those are experiences I don't they could have gotten from any other youth organization out there. Oldest DS will join the Navy this summer, and because he is an Eagle Scout, he will start out as a higher rank than other recruits.

Religion is not stressed at all in our troop. There is a generic "grace" when a meal is served, but that is about it. BSA does not require a belief in the Judeo-Christian God, but does require belief in a higher power. That is it. PM me if you want more info.

 

[BethanyF]

Im a Cub Scout leader (Webelos 2) and the Pack Committee Chair. I try to keep any religious aspects very generic and basically assign any religion work to be done on a family level. I am not equipped to cover all the religions represented in my den.
I will have conversations that include statements like 'if you go to Sunday School, what do think the lesson would be for .....' If they dont go to Sunday School or the equivient, then I just ask them what they feel is right vs wrong. I never make them feel like they have to be religious. I just try to teach good choices.

IMO, they have their own parents and churches to teach them the religious things. We still award them for the religion requirements when they come back and show us that they completed it. I dont have my book handy, but the requirements are written in such a way that you dont have to be an active church member to earn them, just that you have to do things 'according to your own beliefs'. There is a religion medal that can be earned, but it is not required for any ranking.

The kids arent going to leave Scouting thinking I was a Sunday School teacher, they are going to remember things like camping, field trips, science experiements, pinewood derbys, rocket launches, friends, and so on.

 

[MyManGoofy!]

My son started as a Tiger and went all the way up to Life Scout.

Cubs was great. Had an awesome Den Master who was all about teaching the boys about the outdoors and their knots and pinewood derby and all the things that boys join the scouts for. He did not bring religion or politics into it at all.

Son bridged over to Boy Scouts and it all fell apart. We are atheists and the first troop we tried was all about telling us (publicly and privately) how wrong we were. Eventually told my son that if he did not believe in a religion - they would not be able to grant him his Eagle. So we changed troops to one that said they would not withhold his Eagle on those grounds.

Ok - great we thought. Yeah right - things went well for a while. Remember the "Gay Marriage Scare of 2004" (not that this has been the only one)? This troop invited in some preacher to come and talk to the kids about how morally corrupt being gay was and that we should all give our support to the government to prevent those horrible gay people from infiltrating (yes- he used that word) our society. My son stood up and walked out. We never went back to that troop. We tried to find a new troop here in Florida once we moved here that was more like what he experienced in Cub Scouts - but never did.

That was our experience.

 

[TurboKitty]

MyManGoofy!, from what you wrote, I'd say you've done one heck of a good job with that young man! To have the strength of character to stand up for his beliefs at that age, especially toward adults in a leadership role, is very admirable in my eyes.

 

[Pam]

OP:

I would suggest that you go to the official Boy Scouts of America website:

http://www.scouting.org/media/lcl.aspx

This link searches for the local council in your area - just plug in your zip code and the Council name, address and phone number will pop up.

If I were you, I would then call the Council and ask to speak to the Scouting Executive. Voice your concerns and ask your questions.

My son is an Eagle Scout. The Cub Scout/Boy Scout program was an excellent fit for him. He is now in college and still involved in Scouting. In fact, he was awarded a national merit scholarship from NESA. (National Eagle Scout Association)

 

[packetminnie]

DBIL and DB are both Eagle Scouts. DH was in cub scouts but there wasn't a troop near where he lived, and his DF was not a fan of scouting, so he never made it past Webelos.

My DS10 has been in since tigers. He has aspergers, adhd, and visual processing problems. The other scouts have been a very positive influence on him and have alway treated him like everyone else. My DH and I are very involved with the pack as are most parents in our pack. I think the more parental involvement the better.

Our pack is not very religious. We have all different faiths. For those that do not have regular religious instruction, our sponsoring church gives a small talk on religion that satisfies an advancement requirement. My DH has attended with DS and he didn't find it offensive (he has a major problem with organized religion). I have great misgivings over the discrimination of GLBT but I think the positives outweigh the negatives. YMMV.

 

[DawnCt1]

Hey everyone...
I'd really like to hear your experienc
We are atheists who attend a Unitarian church pretty much every Sunday, now. I would say we are spiritual but not religious. I am unsure about the level of theism involved in participation with BS:

OT, I am just curious, why do you go to church if you are an atheist? No disrepect or criticism intended.
On Topic. Our experiences with scouting was wonderful. Everyone loved it. DN went on to be an Eagle scout.