Big article on the backstory to MyMagic+

[ThurlFan]

I disagree when it comes to AK, yes it lacks rides but the details are stunning to me. DHS has always been underdeveloped hopefully they can soon find something with that park. Epcot was once an amazing permanent version of a worlds fair today it's a lot of restaurants and a good fireworks show(my favorite). MK could even use still some more expansion but that park is at least ok for now.

I'll go along with that assessment of AK. It's probably our second favorite park, although it tends to get rated as a half-day park by many many people. Not nearly in need of additional attractions as DHS and Epcot.

Saying the imagineer's budgets are what limit the magic band capability is a bit hard for me to swallow.

We may have a communication issue here. I'm not complaining about the lack of interactivity within the attractions. That's neither here nor there for me. My previous point about attraction build-out was that there was and is a pressing need for additional attraction capacity (i.e. additional rides and shows) in order for FP+ to make sense logistically. Take Epcot for example. Two massively popular attractions and everything else tends to be a 20 minute wait or less. What's the point of Fastpass+ here? Especially when you can only book one of the two rides that it's actually useful on. Money would have been better spent *now* on replacing or rehabbing the multiple attractions inside the Wonders of Life pavilion that has been shuttered for a decade now (or blowing up the whole pavilion to make way for something new). Then, once the aggregate riders per hour has been increased across the park, FP+ makes sense. Same is true for DHS.

By the same token, FP+ works really well in MK, where there is sufficient capacity that ride tiering is not necessary.

 

[mcd2745]

Here is the rude truth. The only people who hate fast passes are the old codgers who have been going so long that they think Disney owes it to them to keep it their way.

This could not be more incorrect. The argument is not that FP+ should never have been done, but that the build-out of attractions to support it should have been done first.

While that's definitely not the "only" people who hate FP+, there sure are lots and lots of people who do fall into that category.

And the argument that they have done things backwards? I'll give them the benefit of the doubt - briefly, for now - on that. When you build a house, you always build the foundation first. I think MM+ and a lot of their other recent projects (additional bus loop, hub expansion, etc.) have to be looked at that way. They are improving the infrastructure first, to better handle demand (and yes, cut costs in some areas). Now, as they move beyond that, we need to see some serious investment in new attractions. However, time will tell on that, they are rapidly running out of "goodwill" they have built up over the years, and I don't blame anyone who is skeptical.

 

[DDLand]

And, they would be....?

1) Certain areas of work could not begin until others had been finished. For example, deployment of mobile device infrastructure couldn't start until WiFi had been deployed. If one part of the backend was bottlenecking the rest of the project, then the capital wouldn't start flowing until months or even years later.
2) Certain areas of the project came in under budget offsetting the increased costs. For example, MagicBands ended up costing significantly less then previously anticipated. While this cost wouldn't figure into CapEx, it is an example of overestimating costs.
3) Certain areas of the project were cut or downsized.
4) Some existing infrastructure/resources or labor were reusable.

That's off the top of my head.

Terrified is 60 Minutes showing up to talk about SDL, graft and capex outlays.

FastCompany soft interviews.... not so much.

Now you're bringing up an unsubstantiated piece of speculation into the mix?

Did you look at that Amazon piece? It made Bezos look really out of touch with consumer desires. I'm sure Disney would rather cooperate and get their side of the story in, rather than him go completely on his own.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The Imagineers aren't the ones to blame. Rather, the suits holding the purse strings closed are.

Indeed... They have almost no control anymore. After initial concept, what gets built is controlled by budget and financing...not artists whim.

Which is why I have an issue with animal kingdom - the last park built where imagineering had a say...

The reported budget was 800 mil...but estimates were it cost close to 2 bil.

And Eisner ran out of patience...

All that detail and it opened about 50% of what should have been built.

Imagineering needs to find a balance between art, engineering, and construction management...

Is it a coincidence that the next 3 parks opened were done so "on the cheap"? And wdw has gotten far less funds since?

I think not - my take.

 

[clsteve]

1) Certain areas of work could not begin until others had been finished. For example, deployment of mobile device infrastructure couldn't start until WiFi had been deployed. If one part of the backend was bottlenecking the rest of the project, then the capital wouldn't start flowing until months or even years later.
2) Certain areas of the project came in under budget offsetting the increased costs. For example, MagicBands ended up costing significantly less then previously anticipated. While this cost wouldn't figure into CapEx, it is an example of overestimating costs.
3) Certain areas of the project were cut or downsized.
4) Some existing infrastructure/resources or labor were reusable.

That's off the top of my head.

2 1/2 years behind sched. What more really needs to be said? It would be the first project in the history of man to come in under budget with that timeframe. We would be closer to the true mark by multiplying the orig budget by the behind timeframe. Let it go. Enron's accountants couldn't come up with a way to make it come in under budget.

And, the only reason it even matters is exactly what Thurlfan pointed out - money that could have been spent on the capacity Disney actually needs to make a good go of bringing this all together into something that could really work.

If all of the Parks had enough quality capacity - no tiering, no having to select Capt EO, or circling the 60 day mark on your calendar---- non-issue. They could lead us around wherever and whenever they wanted and we wouldn't even notice and would love every minute of it. But, the cart is before the horse

Now you're bringing up an unsubstantiated piece of speculation into the mix?

Did you look at that Amazon piece? It made Bezos look really out of touch with consumer desires. I'm sure Disney would rather cooperate and get their side of the story in, rather than him go completely on his own.

That was an off-hand clarification/reply to your speculative Disney terrified of FastCompany comment. Nothing more....

 

[eXo]

Just occurred to me, in the rush to say magicband offers nothing new, it does link ride photos to accounts automatically. People with magic maker cards have to do that manually, and the hotel card key never had that ability. It's small and I don't expect it to change anyone's mind here, but this notion that it's the exact same thing wrapped up in a different package is overlooking several details about how it works. Not the least of which is that kids didn't generally carry hotel keys around before, and now they carry bands. Parents used to have multiple printed paper FP tickets, now each person has their own programmed in.

Using the old keycards you also could not have walked up to BoG and been identified immediatly by the waiters or have the servers know what table you are seated at. As far as I know, hotel keycards did not have this capability.

And I totally stand by my statement that it is absolutely ridiculous to say that people are "staring at their phone" because of this thing. First off, how is it any different pulling your app up for a sec to see what your next reservation is versus fishing around in your pockets for a paper ticket to see what time is on it. Are any of you actually arguing that looking at one thing is worse than looking at another?

And second, it means less time running across the park to get those fastpasses.

I don't see how anyone can say it is budget when there are QUOTES in the article that show just how much imagineering was against the project and just how far they went to not use it on purpose. And now you blame it on the suits and their budgets? The EXACT same suits who spent a billion on it and WANTED it to succeed? Talk about spin. I'm going by quotes in the actual article, at best the opposite argument here is conjecture and speculation.

I see SPECULATION that the article was biased with nothing but anecdotal evidence to back it up, along with dubious stats that "50% of all things are spin". Very scientific numbers there with a lot of research to back them up.
I see SPECULATION/ASSUMPTION that the limited extra functions of the magic band are all due to budget, when there are actual quotes showing specific opposition to the program at a fundamental level from the imagineers. They said they didn't want to add magic band functionality to rides simply for the sake of adding it. They said they didn't want to add gimmicky things. That is fine and all, but that assumes that all potential uses are gimmicky and tacked on. I gave several examples in a prior comment of non gimmicky ways to make use of the technology.

I'm not saying that magic band was the best use of a billion dollars. But I have seen so many large corporate wide projects go over budget and over time that it just doesn't surprise me anymore. The argument that Disney needs to focus on capacity is very valid, but capacity needs traffic algorithms. And for that matter, Disney IS focusing on capacity. Several rides are getting extra tracks/screens as we type this. JUST focusing on scheduling rides or JUST focusing on adding capacity isn't going to solve the full problem. The scheduling aspect helps to disperse people throughout the park a bit more evenly.

Another thing that has been totally skipped over here is branding. A hotel key card that has some stuff associated to it is nothing different from what Universal offers. A "magic band" that does all that, plus adds ride reservations, photopasses, and the future potential to identify you to cast members, tell a server where you are sitting, the possibility of translocating a lost child, etc etc etc is something new. It is "Disney". Sometimes the simple act of taking several features and wrapping them up in a pretty package is just what it takes to convince some midwestern family to go there instead of Universal. Never under estimate the power of a bracelet with Elsa or Darth Vadar on it.

In the end, the funny part is it is all said and done. So those who don't like it have some tough cookies to swallow. Sorry for ya.

 

[rteetz]

I don't see how anyone can say it is budget when there are QUOTES in the article that show just how much imagineering was against the project and just how far they went to not use it on purpose. And now you blame it on the suits and their budgets? The EXACT same suits who spent a billion on it and WANTED it to succeed? Talk about spin. I'm going by quotes in the actual article, at best the opposite argument here is conjecture and speculation.

I see SPECULATION that the article was biased with nothing but anecdotal evidence to back it up, along with dubious stats that "50% of all things are spin". Very scientific numbers there with a lot of research to back them up.
I see SPECULATION/ASSUMPTION that the limited extra functions of the magic band are all due to budget, when there are actual quotes showing specific opposition to the program at a fundamental level from the imagineers. They said they didn't want to add magic band functionality to rides simply for the sake of adding it. They said they didn't want to add gimmicky things. That is fine and all, but that assumes that all potential uses are gimmicky and tacked on. I gave several examples in a prior comment of non gimmicky ways to make use of the technology.

I'm not saying that magic band was the best use of a billion dollars. But I have seen so many large corporate wide projects go over budget and over time that it just doesn't surprise me anymore. The argument that Disney needs to focus on capacity is very valid, but capacity needs traffic algorithms. And for that matter, Disney IS focusing on capacity. Several rides are getting extra tracks/screens as we type this. JUST focusing on scheduling rides or JUST focusing on adding capacity isn't going to solve the full problem. The scheduling aspect helps to disperse people throughout the park a bit more evenly.

Yes imagineering was against it that's clearly stated we get that. They were against the theming aspect, imagineering loves their theming, for example they didn't like the fact that frog the company that developed this wanted the touch point to be all the same imagineering wanted them to have themes to them depending on the area or ride. To me that makes sense to have themed touch points to go along with the story so they blend in. The thing I was blaming the suits and their budgets on is attractions, imagineering has fantastic big ideas that get cut down because the suits don't want to spend money. The mine train for example was shortened twice. The yeti doesn't work and the suits won't shut it down to fix it. As for MyMagic+ and it's budget the suits like the idea because one they can track guest spending better! they can control capacity better! and it ties everything to one system basically. I'm not opposed to the system I'm fine with it, I also wasn't opposed to the way things were before.

Now as for your comment on adding a third theater and third track to two existing popular rides. Why can't disney just build more rides with that money, they would take people away from those lines decreasing the wait times. This is proven because in California Soarin doesn't see the waits it does in WDW and DCA has a lot more to do than Epcot, same for TSMM, the ride in DCA maybe gets to 40 minutes otherwise it's very reasonable, in WDW it's routinely 60+. Disney can add more capacity by just building more things to do. And in Epcot and DHS where they keep taking things away this would make the most sense.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Eco,

Thoses "additions" are very minor...so much so that even Disney doesn't try to pump them up....

But to play devils advocate...
Is it possible that the imagineers quoted "frustration" with the bands has nothing to do with bands?

What Im suggesting is that they have come under a level of stingy/cost accounting that has made them uncomfortable (not that I necessarily agree with them) for awhile that is making them quite miserable. There have been many reports of that.

Maybe bands are the figurehead of a larger complaint?

It seems to my opinion that imagineering is a shell of what it was and could be by design...because investment is tied to things they don't want to be tied too...
Namely retail (Florida), emergency (DCA), OLC or china paying...

Just a thought.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't agree with imagineering on the scanners...

They have shown reckless disregard for budgets for the sake of art... And operations knew that the whole system would be confusing to customers for a long time... So varying where the scanners were and what they looked like presents a problem on multiple levels.

 

[DDLand]

2 1/2 years behind sched. What more really needs to be said? It would be the first project in the history of man to come in under budget with that timeframe. We would be closer to the true mark by multiplying the orig budget by the behind timeframe. Let it go. Enron's accountants couldn't come up with a way to make it come in under budget.

And, the only reason it even matters is exactly what Thurlfan pointed out - money that could have been spent on the capacity Disney actually needs to make a good go of bringing this all together into something that could really work.

Once again, you can't treat this is as fact. You can frame it as highly difficult to believe, but to say the author took "the suit's word" is completely impossible to prove. I'm sorry, but the author who spent a plethora of time talking to sources both inside and outside the company (all verified by an editor) is hard to completely ignore. I'm one to take his word's seriously. You can disagree with my trust in his comprehensive journalism, but that doesn't make your opinion fact.

Others have pointed to the now dubious costs as another sign of failure of the NextGen Project. That appears to be a flawed argument if one uses these numbers. Frankly, last year a wave of budget cuts befell both Disney World and The Happiest Place on Earth. Anyone remember Iger's Ire? The blame was pointed at MyMagic+. However, what else do we know happened around that time? 800,000,000 got pumped into Shanghai. I think it's about time to stop blaming MyMagic+ for problems that may be attributable elsewhere.

If all of the Parks had enough quality capacity - no tiering, no having to select Capt EO, or circling the 60 day mark on your calendar---- non-issue. They could lead us around wherever and whenever they wanted and we wouldn't even notice and would love every minute of it. But, the cart is before the horse



That was an off-hand clarification/reply to your speculative Disney terrified of FastCompany comment. Nothing more....

Flip side is hourly capacity is up 5000 at MK. We can only guess how much higher it is at the other theme parks too. Soarin' hourly ride capacity is 1000+ (I think 1200, but don't quote me on that) MyMagic has had a comparable effect as adding several new E Tickets, while also adding tons of new features, and simplifying the vacation experience.

That's seriously impressive.

Sorry if I snapped. Shanghai is getting blown out of porportion over at WDWmagic. It was a trigger.

 

[DDLand]

Yes imagineering was against it that's clearly stated we get that. They were against the theming aspect, imagineering loves their theming, for example they didn't like the fact that frog the company that developed this wanted the touch point to be all the same imagineering wanted them to have themes to them depending on the area or ride. To me that makes sense to have themed touch points to go along with the story so they blend in.

I'm with you to a point. Everything should be made to work seamlessly into the environment. However, the choice to reject something that will serve guests the best way possible is also poor design. If it's not meant to be used by real people/guests, then it's a failure of design. It's just show for the sake of show. Objecting to a Mickey head in Expedition Everest is stupid if it help guests enjoy the product better. That's a failure of design.

That's not to say I want a silver touch point in BTMRR. I don't. I think the compromise they took worked. The touch points look great, but also function great too. That's good design.

I also think the problems went deeper then just objections to the touch points though. Do people sit on their hands just because they don't like a silver color? Nope. These Imagineers had petty objections most likely because they didn't get the money for the project. That's pathetic. They're supposed to be the gatekeeper of WDW experience. They should've loved MyMagic+. Instead they were inhibiting it.

The thing I was blaming the suits and their budgets on is attractions, imagineering has fantastic big ideas that get cut down because the suits don't want to spend money. The mine train for example was shortened twice. The yeti doesn't work and the suits won't shut it down to fix it.

Once again, I'm with you... To a point.
Imagineers share a massive part of the blame too. Why should a for profit business spend $100 million+ for a ride that has several critical show elements broken? That's Imagineering's problem. Not TDO.

With that said, it has been a decade so...

Imagineering can do better. So can the folks at Burbank and TDO. To deflect the blame off Imagineering is ignoring at least half the problems. Remember this is the same Imagineering that has a hatred for benches. They're not always right. Neither are TDO or Burbank.

I think they were wrong on MyMagic+.

As for MyMagic+ and it's budget the suits like the idea because one they can track guest spending better! they can control capacity better! and it ties everything to one system basically. I'm not opposed to the system I'm fine with it, I also wasn't opposed to the way things were before.

While those are all elements that cannot be ignored, what about the guest experience improvments? You completly ignore those. We could make a cynical list of reasons why Disney should build new attractions. The benefits we get are what matter. MyMagic+ was a big leap forward in most respects.

Now as for your comment on adding a third theater and third track to two existing popular rides. Why can't disney just build more rides with that money, they would take people away from those lines decreasing the wait times. This is proven because in California Soarin doesn't see the waits it does in WDW and DCA has a lot more to do than Epcot, same for TSMM, the ride in DCA maybe gets to 40 minutes otherwise it's very reasonable, in WDW it's routinely 60+. Disney can add more capacity by just building more things to do. And in Epcot and DHS where they keep taking things away this would make the most sense.

Flip side is DCA has several million fewer guests. Your point is valid.

As for your DHS comment about closing attractions, we've talked about that before.

 

[rteetz]

I'm with you to a point. Everything should be made to work seamlessly into the environment. However, the choice to reject something that will serve guests the best way possible is also poor design. If it's not meant to be used by real people/guests, then it's a failure of design. It's just show for the sake of show. Objecting to a Mickey head in Expedition Everest is stupid if it help guests enjoy the product better. That's a failure of design.

That's not to say I want a silver touch point in BTMRR. I don't. I think the compromise they took worked. The touch points look great, but also function great too. That's good design.

I also think the problems went deeper then just objections to the touch points though. Do people sit on their hands just because they don't like a silver color? Nope. These Imagineers had petty objections most likely because they didn't get the money for the project. That's pathetic. They're supposed to be the gatekeeper of WDW experience. They should've loved MyMagic+. Instead they were inhibiting it.
Once again, I'm with you... To a point.
Imagineers share a massive part of the blame too. Why should a for profit business spend $100 million+ for a ride that has several critical show elements broken? That's Imagineering's problem. Not TDO.

With that said, it has been a decade so...

Imagineering can do better. So can the folks at Burbank and TDO. To deflect the blame off Imagineering is ignoring at least half the problems. Remember this is the same Imagineering that has a hatred for benches. They're not always right. Neither are TDO or Burbank.

I think they were wrong on MyMagic+.


While those are all elements that cannot be ignored, what about the guest experience improvments? You completly ignore those. We could make a cynical list of reasons why Disney should build new attractions. The benefits we get are what matter. MyMagic+ was a big leap forward in most respects.


Flip side is DCA has several million fewer guests. Your point is valid.

As for your DHS comment about closing attractions, we've talked about that before.

I agree for the most part. The imagineers want to do the best they can but often don't get the money they need which has created this sort of backlash. I'm a big imagineer person as it is my dream job. I understand where they are coming from but do agree that they should use the system to their advantage. DCA may get fewer guests but it's not that far behind DHS. The same goes for Disneyland as rides there don't seem to have the waits that the same exact rides in WDW have. Tokyo might be the best comparison but I don't know their exact wait times but do know that park is always crowded.

 

[jec6613]

I haven't been to FL since the MagicBands were introduced, but from an IT perspective, WDW needed them, and FP+.

Many of the attractions date from the 1970's, and virtually all of the attractions park-wide predate the wide acceptance of Ethernet, and then there's the 1980's Magstripe and distributed static databases ... and that's where most of the money was (almost certainly) spent, improving the back-end. Fiber optic to every ride, new park-wide Ethernet and Wi-Fi to enable IOT integration on a Disney-scale, and back-end integration into the website. Every door lock is self monitoring and reporting now, even your drinks now have limited refills and the mugs are tracked and talk to the dispensers.

Sure, they could have kept using magstripe for a while, but Disney had realistically expanded the old systems as far as they could go, and they needed this going forward. The future of this goes beyond even what you've seen - when a ride is upgraded, they no longer have to host the servers and equipment for a ride at the ride itself, and can instead put it virtualized in a datacenter. Centralized monitoring, so that when a ride goes down notification is instant, to both maintenance and WDI, and even ride performance metrics being tracked second by second ... this is a massive IT infrastructure upgrade, not just the silly bands or FP+, those are just a byproduct of the whole thing.

Now then, as for my personal experience, so far, the MagicBands are kind of eh to me - I like having the KTTW type of device, but a band versus a card is less important (although I do see the promise and potential of wearables and have a Microsoft Band I use all day every day). The lack of an app on Windows Phone means that I'll be using the entire website to try to make changes during my next visit, as well, so it's a wash. But to me the biggest advantage is the website integration. I have a single point from which I can manage all of my experiences, add my fiancé and my best friend and family to it so they can see our photos as we progress, and can also see for themselves what will be going on each day. For managing large groups and complicated trips and scheduling, all from a single web browsing interface, it's really magical to me, and is in fact far ahead of the curve compared to other locations.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

That's good information ^^

 

[Putney]

An article is out today explaining some of how this new system came about.

http://m.fastcompany.com/3044283/the-messy-business-of-reinventing-happiness

Great article. Thanks for posting the link