Beginning in January - 18% Gratuity....

[rt2dz]

A server makes a *minimum* of 2.13/hour. There's nothing stopping a restaurant fromm paying more. When I was waiting tables, the only place I made minimum wage was at a neighborhood greasy spoon. Once I had some experience and was working in real restaurants, I made around double the waitstaff minimum plus tips.

Ask most servers if they'd rather make waitstaff minimum + tips or the same flat rate that other restaurant staff make, and most will take the tips every time. There is a reason they're waiting tables rather than running a register or stocking shelves somewhere for a stable $8/hour. I had one job where I was paid a MUCH better hourly rate and tipping was not allowed, but I quit in a hurry because even though my base wage was four times what it was at that greasy spoon where I started waiting tables, my total income was less because of the lack of tips.

You have missed the part were I worked in the industry for over two decades. I am very famaliar as to why people wait tables. However, and I have worked for small independent restaurants to large leaders-in-the-industry-chains (even if only a few restaurants are under any given name) to fine dining. I have worked every aspect of the restaurant--required in management training and sometimes just required to get your tables there basic service. Every have a dishwasher walk out in the middle of a Saturday night shift? If you want your tables to have clean plates for the kitchen to put food on, someone darn well better get back there and do dishes. That was always me. I never begrudged a dishwasher making $16/hour--it's hard and they deserve it.

However, very few of these restaurants paid more than $2.13/hour. Why? They could stay well staffed without paying it. For the exact reason that tips made up for it. I live in a large metro area with 100s of restaurants; no one is hurting for wait staff. I worked for one restaurant that put less than 3% of their applicants on the floor. It was a real industry badge of honor to get on the floor of that restaurant. Once you did, you could work just about anywhere without even an interview. I do not begrudge the servers at WDW getting 18%--I begrudge Disney, Inc saying I MUST tip that everywhere, every time because they don't want to include tips for the DDP. As a past server, I also believe that it was not in the interest of the servers for the most part. Dumb of the union.

On one trip to WDW, DH and I were talking to a buffet server. He was telling us how much he loved working there. He had more tables than if he worked at a table service restaurant. He also made enough that he worked 6 months of the year a lot, and took the other 6 months off. Just a perspective thing.

 

[nbodyhome]

Ask most servers if they'd rather make waitstaff minimum + tips or the same flat rate that other restaurant staff make, and most will take the tips every time. There is a reason they're waiting tables rather than running a register or stocking shelves somewhere for a stable $8/hour. I had one job where I was paid a MUCH better hourly rate and tipping was not allowed, but I quit in a hurry because even though my base wage was four times what it was at that greasy spoon where I started waiting tables, my total income was less because of the lack of tips.

I mentioned that I knew of someone who worked at Pizzara Uno making about 50k a year, and someone at a Disney buffet making around 80k last year.

I somehow doubt that either would take an $8.00 or $10.00 an hour job, or want their salary raised to a "living" wage. There are servers who make more than my computer programmer husband. When I waited tables many years ago, I made much more than what the average person made in a minimum wage job. Some people don't tip enough, but some people tip much more than they need to. I think the DDP is going to be the biggest issue in this case. Servers have sometimes been getting double tips, and now I bet they will often not get their normal tip.

 

[Mackey Mouse]

Also, with 18% being added to the check, it will be pretty clear on what to declare at the end of the night for your tips, it will be there in black and white......at least with those checks with the DDE..

 

[kaytieeldr]

kaytieeldr: No, bad service does not warrant getting a manager before it comes to that point 90% of the t
ime. That is the point of a bad tip, sending the message. It is much easier than all of that other.

But the server does not know definitely WHY the tip is less than standard, or entirely nonexistent. And undertipping an individual server provides NO feedback to the restaurant that there is a problem.

And while union negotations, not international travlers, are not the "reason" for the DDE auto-grat, what made union officials want an auto-grat from somewhere?

Concession to servers due to Disney's non-negotiable removal of the Disney-paid tip on DDP meals.

If there were plates on the table from a previous diner, that is a management and busser problem, not a server issue. Disney hires bussers, and, yes, servers pre-bus, but not in our experience at Disney Buffets.

I'm not taling about plates left from previous diners - I'm talking about the current diners' plates. Health codes (generally) require that a new plate be used for every trip to the buffet, that one's original plate cannot be reused. Therefore, without a good/attentive server (because bussers clear the table after the meal, not while one is dining) should be removing used plates on a regular basis. Five people each making three trips to the buffet = fifteen plates. Do you really want them stacked or double-stacked up in every empty spot on your table while you're trying to eat?

 

[Lowillian]

I just started reading this thread. My DH thought of something and I'm not sure if it's been brought up yet or not (I didn't really feel like reading 46 pages!), but we never disclose we have the DDE card until the bill comes. So, we should get great service from the wait staff in hopes of a great tip, right?

Again, sorry if this has been covered.

 

[kaytieeldr]

That is ABSOLUTELY correct, Lowillian (and really, it doesn't matter if it's been covered before, given the volume of this thread )

 

[TLSnell1981]

I knew my thread would be closed. "DDP instead of DDE -Revolt" I started it so a different view could be put on this.

It is unfair that DDE has been singled out...especially since the gratuity has been removed from the DDP. I think the few dollars someone might not get because the tip wasn't figured on the prediscounted amount is not significant.
The amount of money they will lose by people not leaving a tip on DDP is significant. Writing on the bottom of you check that you are not leaving a gratuity, in protest,....because of this.... would send a strong message.

The servers allowed their union to negotiate this contract and Disney was lame enought to accept it. I think too many people don't pay enough attention to what is being done in their name. This can't be good for the servers either. Let's face it no server reports all their tips, but they will now pay taxes on almost every penny. You know few will give more than 18%.
This has also obviously caused an uproar on this board....I imagine it will be uncomfortable for some when they actually dine next year.

I honestly don't know what I'm going to do...I don't think just eating off property would send a big message. I have never not left a tip...not even if the service was less than desirable. If they get away with this what's next. I honestly think this is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Autumngirl]

Everytime I have made and ADR they ask if you have the DDE, so yes they do know that you have the card before you even sit down.

Actually they are asking you if you are on the Dining PLAN. DDE isn't a Dining plan. And most people have their ADR's long before they have their DDE because the expiration is from ISSUE not from first use, so most people aren't going to buy the DDE 6 months in advance.

 

[nbodyhome]

The servers allowed their union to negotiate this contract and Disney was lame enought to accept it..

From what I understand, Disney was not budging on the Dining Plan gratuity. This was supposedly a concession, so SOMETHING was included for the servers in the contract.

Oh - and when I was a server, I claimed every penny. And that was when it was much more common to have cash tips. I would also never NOT leave a tip just to send a message to Disney. If you don't like something, write to the company. I could care less, I rarely get terrible service at Disney. I do have the DDE, and usually leave 20% or so. This way, it's done for me, and I save a few cents at the same time.

 

[nbodyhome]

I just started reading this thread. My DH thought of something and I'm not sure if it's been brought up yet or not (I didn't really feel like reading 46 pages!), but we never disclose we have the DDE card until the bill comes. So, we should get great service from the wait staff in hopes of a great tip, right?

Again, sorry if this has been covered.

I never get asked for DDE ahead of time, so there isn't a reason that the server would know (unless you tell them).

 

[bicker]

The term that makes me crazy is just that a term

I'm sorry but I don't understand.

I am certainly not crazy and I deal with more reality on a daily basis than most people.

Uh, I think you have misunderstood what I wrote. I didn't say you were crazy or didn't deal with reality. You wrote, "I get to be penalized because guests from foreign countries do not tip much if at all, that makes me crazy..." I said if that makes you crazy, how do you deal with the rest of the reality [meaning the reality of how policies aimed at the unfortunate conduct of a few affect all of us]? More clearly, I meant that there are numerous other examples of situations where a minority of people do something that results in WDW applying counter-measures that adversely affect everyone. And indeed, that's not just a WDW phenomenon, but a more general phenomenon.

I also do not understand how people exploiting loopholes has anything to do with this.

It is a similar situation. Disney, like all consumer-facing entities, changes its policies, in large part, in response to consumer behaviors. Generally, any usage that runs counter to their intended use prompts them to consider putting in place rules, policies or service specifications changes aimed at dissuading such unintended use. Unfortunately, such changes often affect far more cases than just the unintended uses -- such changes typically adversely affect intended uses as well as unintended uses -- the 'wide swath' phenomenon we've seen so many times with respect to WDW. Surely, a minority of guests failing to provide appropriate gratuities is an "unintended use" as I've been discussing it in this paragraph. Therefore, it is a reasonable expectation that Disney, faced with a pattern of such misuse, has taken action to address that unintended use, and in doing so has adversely affected more than just the folks who failing to provide adequate gratuities.

I hope that's a bit clearer than what I wrote earlier.

 

[TangaroaTiki]

Well you have cheap local and those who don't know how to tip to blame. Yes, plenty of people tip properly, but for servers, its those who don't who are remembered. There are orlando locals who stop by disney restaurants(no park ones) on a regular basis, ring up $50+ bills, get their 20% off, and then leave a $2 tip. There are also those on vacation who have a $100 bill, get their 20% off, making the bill $80 They do their math, and think leaving $12 is a nice 15% tip. Some people can't understand the tip is based on the prediscounted amount. Most servers I know are all for this auto grat because of the above two mentioned examples.

Bingo!! You win - this is exactly why Disney is doing this. We don't care about the auto-tip, because we tip 20%, regardless of service, and 25% for great service. So now we save 2%

 

[TDC Nala]

I knew my thread would be closed. "DDP instead of DDE -Revolt" I started it so a different view could be put on this.

It is unfair that DDE has been singled out...especially since the gratuity has been removed from the DDP. I think the few dollars someone might not get because the tip wasn't figured on the prediscounted amount is not significant.
The amount of money they will lose by people not leaving a tip on DDP is significant. Writing on the bottom of you check that you are not leaving a gratuity, in protest,....because of this.... would send a strong message.

The servers allowed their union to negotiate this contract and Disney was lame enought to accept it. I think too many people don't pay enough attention to what is being done in their name. This can't be good for the servers either. Let's face it no server reports all their tips, but they will now pay taxes on almost every penny. You know few will give more than 18%.
This has also obviously caused an uproar on this board....I imagine it will be uncomfortable for some when they actually dine next year.

I honestly don't know what I'm going to do...I don't think just eating off property would send a big message. I have never not left a tip...not even if the service was less than desirable. If they get away with this what's next. I honestly think this is just the tip of the iceberg.

I don't agree with screwing over the servers to make a point. I don't want the DDP. And as a DDE member, this really doesn't bother me. I don't see a need to protest. I'll use the card and I'll give them their 18%, unless the service is totally abysmal, which, honestly, has only happened on maybe three meals out of the countless table service meals I have had at WDW since 2000.

I do agree that if they're supposed to pay taxes on their tips, then they should. The government lets me pay my health insurance premiums pretax, but other than that I get taxed on everything I make.

 

[kaytieeldr]

It is unfair that DDE has been singled out...especially since the gratuity has been removed from the DDP.

But DDE has not been singled out. The policy extends to parties of six or more, no matter how they pay (DDE/DDP/OOP). At least with the latter two groups, large parties tend to have problems calculating even tip. Ever been with a large group of diners and be the one responsible for collecting enough money to pay the check AND a reasonable tip?
Most likely, it doesn't extend to many DDP/OOP parties because they will (be expected to) tip on the full check anyway, as opposed to a discounted bill - and likely have been determined to be a single group, with one person handling the entire financial transaction.

The servers allowed their union to negotiate this contract and Disney was lame enought to accept it.

No, the servers did NOT 'allow' the union to negotiate this contract, but they are vastly outnumbered by non-food service Cast Members - to whom the tipping issue did not matter. And Disney wasn't "lame enough" to "accept" these conditions - Disney SET them.

 

[TLSnell1981]

From what I understand, Disney was not budging on the Dining Plan gratuity. This was supposedly a concession, so SOMETHING was included for the servers in the contract.

Oh - and when I was a server, I claimed every penny. And that was when it was much more common to have cash tips. I would also never NOT leave a tip just to send a message to Disney. If you don't like something, write to the company. I could care less, I rarely get terrible service at Disney. I do have the DDE, and usually leave 20% or so. This way, it's done for me, and I save a few cents at the same time.

The servers allowed the union to contract this...it's not just Disney this message needs to get to.
The servers share in the responsibility for this. It is unfair and ridiculous to single out DDE. I'm sure the STICKER SHOCK with the price increase of the DDP...would have totally killed that program. This is why Disney wouldn't budge.

 

[bicker]

In the connotation that I used it... in reference to what that person posted that it was somehow connected to guests from foreign countries not tipping enough or not at all, hence we have this forced gratuity, I do think it is somewhat a "penalty." I do tip and tip well, but now that choice has been taken from me.

I think the word "penalty" implies that a punitive action was directed at you, when in reality, what you're referring to is an unintended negative ramification of an action substantially directed at others. Consider yourself collateral damage. Indeed, that's really the point I was making in the message of mine you replied to earlier (which I replied to in my message at #691, five above this one).

I think the key distinction is that, as it pertains to the effect on you, what they're doing isn't personal; it's just business.

 

[melomouse]

Many naysayers about whether or not the DDP will eventually ALSO be having a "mandatory" 18%, but if it does, I won't at all be surprised. Stay tuned....

Having tips dictated never makes anyone happy. I'm not thrilled and much prefer my own discretion.

I do have to wonder, tho, if those really, really angry posters are really poor tippers, no tippers, tippers who don't get out much, or tippers who are oblivious. NO one on the DIS, tho..... what am I thinking!!!

No one worse at math than me. Have an "easy tip" feature on my cell phone - probably most of you do, too! Tend to leave MORE rather than less - always 20% or close. I've waited tables,hi-end and lo-end, and have had family in the business also on both ends. Also - I always tip in cash, whether or not my food bill is paid by CC or room charge. Just always seems like the right thing to do.

I think that once again, this new policy is driven not just by Disney passing costs on to the customers, as any industry does, but also by the abuses of a few impacting on the many.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Bingo!! You win - this is exactly why Disney is doing this. We don't care about the auto-tip, because we tip 20%, regardless of service, and 25% for great service. So now we save 2%

Maybe even more - great service will now save you 7%

 

[TLSnell1981]

But DDE has not been singled out. The policy extends to parties of six or more, no matter how they pay (DDE/DDP/OOP). At least with the latter two groups, large parties tend to have problems calculating even tip. Ever been with a large group of diners and be the one responsible for collecting enough money to pay the check AND a reasonable tip?
Most likely, it doesn't extend to many DDP/OOP parties because they will (be expected to) tip on the full check anyway, as opposed to a discounted bill - and likely have been determined to be a single group, with one person handling the entire financial transaction. No, the servers did NOT 'allow' the union to negotiate this contract, but they are vastly outnumbered by non-food service Cast Members - to whom the tipping issue did not matter. And Disney wasn't "lame enough" to "accept" these conditions - Disney SET them.

Why do they have a union if they do not negotiate their contracts for them?

 

[TangaroaTiki]

Maybe even more - great service will now save you 7%

That's right!