Be nice to your kids please.

[Average Joe]

If it truly was an incident of abuse, the time to have gotten a security guard would have been during the abuse.

Using you analogy...you are driving down the road and witness a stabbing. The time to call 911 would be immediately. You don't stand there for several minutes watching the repeat stabbing, then call 911 after the victim is dead and the attacker is leaving the scene.

Very true. But if you can not describe the person to the security gaurd what good is it. The incident would have been over by the time I got the security guard. It is very easy to Monday night Quarderback. Maybe I should have just stepped outside the restroom and started yelling for help. I did more than nothing.

Like others have mentioned in the thread people react in different ways.

Maybe I was selfish to not pound on the door and tell him to stop. If I did so would it have ruined my family's vacation? Maybe I was scared cause this guy was big. If that is the case so be it. I know some big people who are afraid of spiders. I do not hold this agianst them. I, on the other hand, am more afraid of beings that can think like humans. With the state of mind this guy was in, he was already pumped up.

It is easy for people to state what they would do. Even I could say if it happened again I would react different. Until you are in the situation it is nice to think you would do the right thing. However, I was in the room for a reason and had a situation thrust upon me and at the time did what came to mind.

I am glad that a lot of people responded to this. I was just starting a thread on an event from my last trip. I was NOT looking for a reaction to what I have done but it turned into that quickly.

 

[Carly_Roach]

Maybe I was selfish to not pound on the door and tell him to stop. If I did so would it have ruined my family's vacation? Maybe I was scared cause this guy was big. If that is the case so be it.

I'm sorry AJ, but people like you really push my buttons.

If/when I see an obvious beating going on, I'll step in regardless of what personal injury may be done to me, whether it's physically stepping in, screaming at the abuser, drawing attention to it or hauling an officer or security guard over there to witness the incident. I'll step in, do what I can to deflect what's happening to the child and accept the consequences in order to stop the beating.

That's how I judge, for sure, that what someone is doing to a child is actual abuse. Anything else is just a bystander wanting to control someone else's momentary behavior for their own self-interest, self-gratification and, when broadcasted to the public at large under a PSA guise telling people to be nice to their children, personal self-glorification and grandstanding.

In your own words you say you:

• waited for "the abuser" to come out of the stall AFTER he 'd already "abused" his child

• muttered some kind of nothing under your breath to "the abuser's" back while he was leaving, hoping "the abuser" wouldn't hear you because then you might actually have had to be accountable for what you said

• went to the information desk (instead of up to a security guard) to "report" it

• pointed out "the abuser" to someone else when "the abuser" was leaving the park

• and hoped someone else would do something about it. You didn't even wait around to find out if the "abused" child was OK for Christ's sake!

After doing what you saw as your 'civic duty' and broken your arm patting yourself on the back, you went on to enjoy your vacation amidst a wave of self-righteous pride thinking that you did something about someone else's behavior?!?!?! And then, God help us all and Jesus please see me through this, posted here acting as though you're some kind of child advocate?!?!?!?

Ugh.

 

[mgilmer]

I'm sorry AJ, but people like you really push my buttons.

If/when I see an obvious beating going on, I'll step in regardless of what personal injury may be done to me, whether it's physically stepping in, screaming at the abuser, drawing attention to it or hauling an officer or security guard over there to witness the incident. I'll step in, do what I can to deflect what's happening to the child and accept the consequences in order to stop the beating.

That's how I judge, for sure, that what someone is doing to a child is actual abuse. Anything else is just a bystander wanting to control someone else's momentary behavior for their own self-interest, self-gratification and, when broadcasted to the public at large under a PSA guise telling people to be nice to their children, personal self-glorification and grandstanding.

In your own words you say you:

• waited for "the abuser" to come out of the stall AFTER he 'd already "abused" his child

• muttered some kind of nothing under your breath to "the abuser's" back while he was leaving, hoping "the abuser" wouldn't hear you because then you might actually have had to be accountable for what you said

• went to the information desk (instead of up to a security guard) to "report" it

• pointed out "the abuser" to someone else when "the abuser" was leaving the park

• and hoped someone else would do something about it. You didn't even wait around to find out if the "abused" child was OK for Christ's sake!

After doing what you saw as your 'civic duty' and broken your arm patting yourself on the back, you went on to enjoy your vacation amidst a wave of self-righteous pride thinking that you did something about someone else's behavior?!?!?! And then, God help us all and Jesus please see me through this, posted here acting as though you're some kind of child advocate?!?!?!?

Ugh.

 

[HoneyBee06]

For those who think it is none of my business you need help and need to quit beating your kids. I would not spank my child but if you want to that is fine just do not give a beating!

Amen to that.

 

[chobie]

Judging by the OP's original post I would have also said that it was non of your business. If you do not actually witness someone abusing than how can you report it? There are many situations that could make that stall wall shake, I have a 4 year old that flips out if he doesn't get what he wants. It would be very easy for someone to overhear us in a bathroom stall and cry abuse if he was having one of his tantrums. The truth would be I in fact never put my hands on him but he could have been extremely up set for one reason or another hitting and kicking the walls and screaming.

I was once accused of abuse at a wading pool because my then 4 year old was throwing one of those fits you described. The woman who accused me of this watched me give my daughter several warnings that is was time to leave (5 minutes till we go, 2 minutes til we go etc.), watched my DD refuse to get out of the wading pool, then watched me take her firmly by the hand while holding a toddler at the same time. Because my DD screamed so loudly and tried to break away from my hand as we left, this woman came running up to me and made a big scene about how I was "mistreating" my child. Then my DD screamed in her face "aaaaah -it's a stranger mommy!!!!" and the woman tool a few steps back, said "I can see you have a very powerful child" and left.

Oh, the smug self-righteousness of that woman...

 

[Liberty Belle]

IMHO it was none of your business.

The child was being beaten so hard, he was banging up against the walls of the stall and you say it was not his business?!

 

[sha_lyn]

I had an experience similar to chobie's expedrience.

DS was about 4 I believe.
We were out running errands for the day, and I promised if that we would stop for icecream if he was good. As I was checking out at Big Lots I realized I was out of checks (or left the check book at home. It's been 15 or more yrs the details are a bit fuzzy now). I had to put back a couple of items and paid for my purchases with the last bit of cash I had.
As we left the store I told DS that we had to run home for a minute to get checks. All he hear was "we need to run home" and he started throwing a tantrum as we were walking to the car. He dropped to the pavement screaming "no, no". I 1/2 drag 1/2 carry my screaming kicking DS to the car. It was cool and rainy out. Not the type of weather we needed to be standing out in very long, but not freezing or pouring down rain. As I unlock the door this woman comes running up to me screaming "I'm calling the police, I'm calling the police. I hate people like you. People like you should never have kids" DS hides behind me holding onto my leg for dear life. The woman is inches away from my face screaming her head off and shaking her finger right into my face. I was in shock for a minute as this woman went nuts. I finally pull myself together enough to tell the woman to get out of my face and if she touched me again I would knock her block off. She keeps going on about me abusing DS. I asked her just how is keeping a child from laying down in the street abuse. She started screaming again "look look the child is terrified of you". I told her "no he is terrified of the crazy lady screaming at his mother. If he was afraid of me do you think he would be clinging to me. I'm not going to tell you again. Get out of my way and let me get in my car, or you will be the one who gets arrested for asault.
She finally start walking away still screaming "'I'm calling the police".
I got in my car, locked the doors and pulled over to where she was getting into her car. I copied down her tag number with every intention of calling the police. However I was still so upset by the time I got home that I ended up dropping the number in a puddle getting out of the car.

ETA: when we got to Walmart (after running home) Ds told the cashier about the crazy lady that was screaming at us.

 

[sha_lyn]

The child was being beaten so hard, he was banging up against the walls of the stall and you say it was not his business?!

The OP wasn't inside the stall with them. He has no idea what was hitting the stall. The child could have been kicking. The man could have been hitting the side of the stall etc.

 

[S. C.]

Are you agaisnt spaking in general, or do you just feel that the incident reached the level of abuse?

If you are against spanking in general.... it doesn't matter what your opinion is, what matters is what is the law. To report a legal action only ties up resources and time that could be used to catch and prosecute someone who is truly guilty of abuse.
As another poster pointed out, even unfounded reports of abuse can ruin someones career. You might say "who cares", but would you want that action to cause a child to be homeless, go hungry etc?

The one and only time I've supected abuse I called authorities, gave my name address & phone number, was available for and answered further questions etc.

And you were not scared that you RUINED this persons career and caused the child/red to be homeless and go hungary?

I had an experience similar to chobie's expedrience.

DS was about 4 I believe.
We were out running errand for the day, and I promised if that we would stop for icecream if he was good. As I was checking out at Big Lots I realized I was out of checks (or left the check book at home. It's been 15 or more yrs the details are a bit fuzzy now). I had to put back a couple of items and paid for my purchases with the last bit of cash I had.
As we left the store I told DS that we had to run home for a minute to get checks. All he hear was "we need to run home" and he started throwing a tantrum as we were walking to the car. He dropped to the pavement screaming "no, no". I 1/2 drag 1/2 carry my screaming kicking DS to the car. It was cool and rainy out. Not the type of weather we needed to be standing out in very long, but not freezing or pouring down rain. As I unlock the door this woman comes running up to me screaming "I'm calling the police, I'm calling the police. I hate people like you. People like you should never have kids" DS hides behind me holding onto my leg for dear life. The woman is inches away from my face screaming her head off and shaking her finger right into my face. I was in shock for a minute as this woman went nuts. I finally pull myself together enough to tell the woman to get out of my face and if she touched me again I would knock her block off. She keeps going on about me abusing DS. I asked her just how is keeping a child from laying down in the street abuse. She started screaming again "look look the child is terrified of you". I told her "no he is terrified of the crazy lady screaming at his mother. If he was afraid of me do you think he would be clinging to me. I'm not going to tell you again. Get out of my way and let me get in my car, or you will be the one who gets arrested for asault.
She finally start walking away still screaming "'I'm calling the police".
I got in my car, locked the doors and pulled over to where she was getting into her car. I copied down her tag number with every intention of calling the police. However I was still so upset by the time I got home that I ended up dropping the number in a puddle getting out of the car.

Sorry for your bad experience. But AGAIN if you HAD been an abuser that is one more childs life that may have been saved because a stranger cared enough to question it.

 

[sha_lyn]

For those who think it is none of my business you need help and need to quit beating your kids. I would not spank my child but if you want to that is fine just do not give a beating!

So now you believe that any of us who aren't praising you must be child abusers.
Between that and the claims that the father must have been in a rage induced by steriods, you've pretty much proven how full of BS you really are.

 

[Average Joe]

So now you believe that any of us who are praising you msut be child abusers.
Between that and the claims that the father must have been in a rage induced by steriods, you've pretty much proven how full of BS you really are.

Look at all of your posts. You are the most negative person on the board.
Roid rage is real. This guy was a body builder (it was a possibility).

I love the way you read your own messages into other peoples.
"So now you believe that any of us who are praising you msut be child abusers." what does this even mean.

 

[sha_lyn]

Sorry for your bad experience. But AGAIN if you HAD been an abuser that is one more childs life that may have been saved because a stranger cared enough to question it.

How would her screaming at me and threatening (but not calling) the police stopped abuse? If she had confronted an abuser like that, she probably would have made an abuser so made at the child that the child would have been seriously hurt once they got home.

And you were not scared that you RUINED this persons career and caused the child/red to be homeless and go hungary?

Actually had the mother not fled the state with the children, I would have testified on their Step-fathers or bioligical fathers behalf to get custody.. The children were being physically, verbally and emotionally abused. The son had already spent time in a metal facility because of the abuse. The step-father was in the process of trying to get custody of the kids based on the recomendation of the psychiatrist. When the boy was first released, the mother had agreed to the psychitrist's recomendation that the kids live with the step-father. However there wasn't a court order or agreement. The mother picked the kids up at school and refused to let the step father see them. The daughter called me and said her brother was outside her bedroom door with a knife trying to kill her. I ran out the door and up to their house (about 1/2 mile away at the other end of my street). I got in the house and tlaked to both the kids. I hung around until time for the mother to get home. I did not hang around, because I knew she would go after the kids for letting me in the house. I called CPS when I got back home.
When the case worker went out their house, she took the son into a room to tlak to him and left the mother, daughter and the report alone. The daughter called me the next moring to tell me that the mother read the report and knew I had called. A day or 2 later the mother ran my car off the road.
I rushed home and called 911. The mother reached her home first. She was already on the phone with 911 and claimed that I was at her front door trying to break it down. They had already sent a car "out to the scene". The officer basically decided that we were just made at each other and had both made up our stories.
We were moving to MS that same week. I left all my contact info for the step-father, but he never got his day in court. The mother, her boyfriend and the kids dissapeared jsut afew days after we moved.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

Comparing teaching emotionally disturbed children a few hrs a week to raising "normal" children 24/7 is comparing apples to oranges. Do you have children of your own? My guess would be no, unless you have a baby/toddler. Otherwise you would see how ridiculous your comparison is.
I'm shocked you didn't learn a bit about child behavior while pursuing your teaching degree. Even in basic girl scout leader training they cover the fact that children will respond differently to "authority figures" (teachers, girl scout leaders etc)than how they respond to their own parents.

First of all, 30 hours a week, 10 months a year for 16 years isn't a "few hours".

I have a 9 year old, and yes comparing my son to the kids I work with is Apples and Oranges, because frankly techniques that are hard work in the classroom are a piece of cake with him. I also have plenty of friends and families I work with with similar parenting philosophies who have wonderful, well behaved, well adjusted kids.

Yes, kids respond differently to teachers than they do to parents, but the same principals -- mutual respect, consistency, transparency, clear values work in both situations.

 

[S. C.]

How would her screaming at me and threatening (but not calling) the police stopped abuse? If she had confronted an abuser like that, she probably would have made an abuser so made at the child that the child would have been seriously hurt once they got home.

She could of also taken their/your plate # and reported it to the police

Actually had the mother not fled the state with the children, I would have testified on their Step-fathers or bioligical fathers behalf to get custody.. The children were being physically, verbally and emotionally abused. The son had already spent time in a metal facility because of the abuse. The step-father was in the process of trying to get custody of the kids based on the recomendation of the psychiatrist. When the boy was first released, the mother had agreed to the psychitrist's recomendation that the kids live with the step-father. However there wasn't a court order or agreement. The mother picked the kids up at school and refused to let the step father see them. The daughter called me and said her brother was outside her bedroom door with a knife trying to kill her. I ran out the door and up to their house (about 1/2 mile away at the other end of my street). I got in the house and tlaked to both the kids. I hung around until time for the mother to get home. I did not hang around, because I knew she would go after the kids for letting me in the house. I called CPS when I got back home.
When the case worker went out their house, she took the son into a room to tlak to him and left the mother, daughter and the report alone. The daughter called me the next moring to tell me that the mother read the report and knew I had called. A day or 2 later the mother ran my car off the road.
I rushed home and called 911. The mother reached her home first. She was already on the phone with 911 and claimed that I was at her front door trying to break it down. They had already sent a car "out to the scene". The officer basically decided that we were just made at each other and had both made up our stories.
We were moving to MS that same week. I left all my contact info for the step-father, but he never got his day in court. The mother, her boyfriend and the kids dissapeared jsut afew days after we moved.

There you go, none of us knows how the child in the op's home life is. It is better to report a suspected abuse then to mind our own buisness and find out the child was severly beaten or worse.

Sorry... but i find it hard to believe that a profeesional would be so careless as to leave the report setting there for the mother to read.
Sounds more like the daughter confessed to mom that she called you and what was said.

 

[luvmy3]

Sorry for your bad experience. But AGAIN if you HAD been an abuser that is one more childs life that may have been saved because a stranger cared enough to question it.

But what about the damage that is caused to the innocent family? I know a woman who was leaving a b-day party with her son, he was almost 4. He didn't want to leave so he started flipping himself around on the ground. This woman forcfully picked him up and put him in his carseat. He was bucking the whole time and she managed to get him in. About 10 pm that evening CPS showed up to investigate. This woman was not an abuser, she was a frazzled mom trying to get her kid home. They made her wake up her other two children to look them over and interview them, they were petrified. They had no idea what was happening, they thought they were being taken away. Of course they found no signs of abuse in the home but it doesn't matter, this woman is now flagged by CPS. Once a claim of abuse is made you stay in their database regardless of the findings. When people do background checks this could possibly come up. It really is a fine line between reporting what you think is abuse and what really is, and innocent families can pay a price for someone's mistake.

OP I think you did what you thought was right but if you didn't witness actual slapping can you be sure he wasn't slapping the stall wall. Was it a sound made when you smack skin? You admit you were somewhat afraid of this guy, couldn't it be that this child was equally scared. If this guy was so mad and slapping and shaking walls what child wouldn't be screaming?
I am not defending what the man did, if he was not physically abusing him, verbal abuse is no better.

 

[S. C.]

But what about the damage that is caused to the innocent family? I know a woman who was leaving a b-day party with her son, he was almost 4. He didn't want to leave so he started flipping himself around on the ground. This woman forcfully picked him up and put him in his carseat. He was bucking the whole time and she managed to get him in. About 10 pm that evening CPS showed up to investigate. This woman was not an abuser, she was a frazzled mom trying to get her kid home. They made her wake up her other two children to look them over and interview them, they were petrified. They had no idea what was happening, they thought they were being taken away. Of course they found no signs of abuse in the home but it doesn't matter, this woman is now flagged by CPS. Once a claim of abuse is made you stay in their database regardless of the findings. When people do background checks this could possibly come up. It really is a fine line between reporting what you think is abuse and what really is, and innocent families can pay a price for someone's mistake.

OP I think you did what you thought was right but if you didn't witness actual slapping can you be sure he wasn't slapping the stall wall. Was it a sound made when you smack skin? You admit you were somewhat afraid of this guy, couldn't it be that this child was equally scared. If this guy was so mad and slapping and shaking walls what child wouldn't be screaming?
I am not defending what the man did, if he was not physically abusing him, verbal abuse is no better.

I understand what you are asking better than you think. My son is in a custody battle he has full temp custody with mom having supervised only parenting time with their children for almost a yr now. Mom didn't have anyway to make dad look bad so she filed a false cps abuse report. Yes it was investigated with no findings. So we have been there done that.

I agree it is a fine line between reporting what you think is abuse and what really is. But if it can save one child from a sever beating or dyeing at the hands of their abuser than IMHO it is worth it.

 

[Average Joe]

OP I think you did what you thought was right but if you didn't witness actual slapping can you be sure he wasn't slapping the stall wall. Was it a sound made when you smack skin? You admit you were somewhat afraid of this guy, couldn't it be that this child was equally scared. If this guy was so mad and slapping and shaking walls what child wouldn't be screaming?
I am not defending what the man did, if he was not physically abusing him, verbal abuse is no better.

It was skin on skin. the boy said he didn't want a wippin. Recalling the conversation the man told him to drop his pants and he cried that he didn't want to. It was definately skin on skin. if he was slapping his own skin I do not see why he would have taken him into the stall.

 

[sha_lyn]

But what about the damage that is caused to the innocent family?

ITA.... Again I have a similar story from a friend. Luckily CPS didn't come knocking on her door.

My friend was shopping at Michael's (an arts and crafts store) with her 2 kids, about 5 & 7 at the time if I remember correctly how long it has been.
Her oldest, the DD, wanted something and the mom didn't buy it. Her DD started screaming so my friend carried her DD out of the store. She put her DD in her booster, the DS in his and started to leave. Her DD unfastened her seat belt, laid down in the van floor and was kicking and screaming.
This friend does not spank. She decided to ignore the tantrum so she unbuckled her DS, got out of the van with him and stood outside the van while her DD kicked, screamed etc inside the van. someone came up (I don't remember if she said they drove up and parked, or walked up and got into a parked car) and sat in their car a long time just watching her. The person in the car then started dialing their phone. My friend figured the person had called the police, so she put her DS in his booster and forcefully placed her DD in her booster and buckled her in. As she left the parking lot, she saw 2 police cars enter the lot (from another entrance I believe).
She didn't get a mile down the road before her DD unfastened her seatbelt again and threw herself to the floor of the van kicking and screaming. The mother pulled to the side of the road, grabbed her DD and yelled at her to sit down, buckle up and not move until they got home. The mother was so afraid that the police would see the DD jumping around if she kept going, but was afraid they would see them on the side of the road and stop too.
This is the one and only time the mother has ever yelled at one of her kids. She was horrified that she had damaged her DD. She was worried for weeks that the police or CPS would show up at her door, and if the nosy busy body had got their license plate, they probably would have shown up.

 

[luvmy3]

It was skin on skin. the boy said he didn't want a wippin. Recalling the conversation the man told him to drop his pants and he cried that he didn't want to. It was definately skin on skin. if he was slapping his own skin I do not see why he would have taken him into the stall.

I believe a parent has the right to discipline their own child they way they see fit, If that includes spanking then they should be allowed to do it in a public restroom with the stall door closed. If what you heard was an accurate description of what was going on behind that door, I would say that the child was definitely being abused. a swat on the behind is one thing, but 20 is way beyond discipline.
I think you did what you thought was necessary in that situation. I am certainly not going to rail you for not jumping in the stall.

 

[robertsmom]

I'm sorry AJ, but people like you really push my buttons.

If/when I see an obvious beating going on, I'll step in regardless of what personal injury may be done to me, whether it's physically stepping in, screaming at the abuser, drawing attention to it or hauling an officer or security guard over there to witness the incident. I'll step in, do what I can to deflect what's happening to the child and accept the consequences in order to stop the beating.

That's how I judge, for sure, that what someone is doing to a child is actual abuse. Anything else is just a bystander wanting to control someone else's momentary behavior for their own self-interest, self-gratification and, when broadcasted to the public at large under a PSA guise telling people to be nice to their children, personal self-glorification and grandstanding.

In your own words you say you:

• waited for "the abuser" to come out of the stall AFTER he 'd already "abused" his child

• muttered some kind of nothing under your breath to "the abuser's" back while he was leaving, hoping "the abuser" wouldn't hear you because then you might actually have had to be accountable for what you said

• went to the information desk (instead of up to a security guard) to "report" it

• pointed out "the abuser" to someone else when "the abuser" was leaving the park

• and hoped someone else would do something about it. You didn't even wait around to find out if the "abused" child was OK for Christ's sake!

After doing what you saw as your 'civic duty' and broken your arm patting yourself on the back, you went on to enjoy your vacation amidst a wave of self-righteous pride thinking that you did something about someone else's behavior?!?!?! And then, God help us all and Jesus please see me through this, posted here acting as though you're some kind of child advocate?!?!?!?

Ugh.

Well said.