Bad cruise 12/12/13

[vedlin71]

I am sorry you did not enjoy your cruise. Which ship were you on? Was the water at Castaway Cay warm enough to swim in? Mike

the dream yes the water was cold at first but it felt good in the hot sun

 

[vedlin71]

This is contradictory to other posts/threads I've read where people have said that the ships DO follow ADA regulations.

i was told just that at gs

 

[twindaddy]

yes it is l I know the law on this one if it is a proven medical reason

i was told just that at gs

Are you on the ship right now? I am sorry you had some bad experiences, but maybe just try to enjoy the rest of your cruise I am sure you paid a ton of money for. You are probably paying a ton of money to sit on the ship internet to complain about it.

Either way, sorry you had a bad time.

BTW, I also serve people with disabilities for a living too. Just because you follow ADA does not mean you are REQUIRED to. You are on a foreign flagged vessel in a foreign land, the laws of the Unites States are just a suggestion.

I hope you enjoy the rest of your trip.

 

[vedlin71]

Are you on the ship right now? I am sorry you had some bad experiences, but maybe just try to enjoy the rest of your cruise I am sure you paid a ton of money for. You are probably paying a ton of money to sit on the ship internet to complain about it. Either way, sorry you had a bad time. BTW, I also serve people with disabilities for a living too. Just because you follow ADA does not mean you are REQUIRED to. You are on a foreign flagged vessel in a foreign land, the laws of the Unites States are just a suggestion. I hope you enjoy the rest of your trip.

no I'm off the ship

 

[cgolf]

I do have a question, because for a full blown medical issue, where a doctors note is available to explain the situation, or a disability, then she should have been let in without issue.

But if this was just swelling due to walking around on a newly healed leg injury, that may fall into a different category and DCL may have been in the right here even though it stinks. To the CM she may have just looked like any kid just trying to come to the show with no shoes.

I for example this past summer was on a vacation where me feet swelled so bad that my crocs hardly fit and it hurt to walk in them. I am now on a water pill to help with this issue. Had I been on the cruise, since the swelling was due to a medical issue should I be let in anywhere without shoes just by explaining it? This would open up a lot of loopholes for people to take advantage of.

Please don't take this as the wrong way, was just curious. Hope that other aspects of the cruise went well and you will remember them far longer than the bad that happened.

cgolf

 

[bumbershoot]

if you have a medical problem the yes it is you can go in the main dinning room with no shoes but not to see a show .

I really don't think that's true, even in the US. It's not safe at all for the person without shoes, as well. If her feet were already having problems, she shouldn't go anywhere without protecting them. She could step on something or be stepped on. Totally unsafe for her.

Why not just put on flipflops?

her mom was with her she has been on the dream before and has never had a problem it is not like she wanted to go far out just wanted to get in

I'm truly not understanding. She wasn't allowed to go in the ocean? How did they know she couldn't get out? Why would she want to go in the ocean if she couldn't get out? Is this the same person as discussed above? Who was going to help her get out? If she couldn't get out but you were watching toddlers and people in wheelchairs (if I'm reading your first post correctly) HOW was she going to get out of the ocean? How could that have been safe?

ETA: it's sounding like the 11 year old wasn't part of your party. Therefore you cannot have known the whole situation.

What is the law on the matter? I don't think the ADA applies to a foreign ship in foreign or international waters, certainly not on a beach in the Bahamas. With that said I guess with the details given I don't see the big deal entering the theater.

I don't think they have to follow it either, but I also don't think a safety issue like bare feet or going into the ocean when you can't get out would be allowed in the States, either.



I hope the child with the swelling problems has been checked out. That sounds like something she should have seen the ship's doctor about, forget seeing a show.

 

[FoxyGranny]

I understand your concerns regarding your granddaughters situation.
It appears the CM was not equipped or prepared for a situation that didn't fall into a simple
no shoes rule. Obviously a this should have been an extenuating circumstance. Rather than a guest disregarding a shoe ruling.

As a grandparent myself,my suggestion would be to cool down and write a concise documentation of the events step by step to Carnival

Again. I am in no way bashing your concern or even anger over the situation .

I am a calm respectful lady, but I would be raging over the described disrespect towards your granddaughter. Actually I would be livid.

Take this opportunity to advice higher ups, for appropriate training of CM to avoiding disappointment for future children. Make a difference !

 

[TXDCLfan]

I understand your concerns regarding your granddaughters situation.
It appears the CM was not equipped or prepared for a situation that didn't fall into a simple
no shoes rule. Obviously a this should have been an extenuating circumstance. Rather than a guest disregarding a shoe ruling.

As a grandparent myself,my suggestion would be to cool down and write a concise documentation of the events step by step to Carnival

Again. I am in no way bashing your concern or even anger over the situation .

I am a calm respectful lady, but I would be raging over the described disrespect towards your granddaughter. Actually I would be livid.

Take this opportunity to advice higher ups, for appropriate training of CM to avoiding disappointment for future children. Make a difference !

This was Disney not Carnival

 

[Bella29]

If her feet were so swollen she couldn't wear any shoes, did you carry her or put her in a wheelchair? I would be more worried about having her off her feet and seeing the ship's doctor than getting her into a show.

If her feet weren't that bad, I would just get shoes and have her wear them into the theater, then sit down with her feet up and her shoes off during the show, and put them back on to walk out of the theater.

If you do decide to write Disney about this, I would not mention the conversation you overheard with the other family and the girl in the wheelchair, because you likely don't have all the information and it makes it look like you are grasping at things to complain about. Focus on your personal experiences in your complaint to Disney.

 

[TXDCLfan]

think this will be my last DCl cruise ! I seen to much bad things it was not the DCl I know and love on castaway I seen them tell a 11 year old girl she could not swim because she could not get out on her own well the toddlers can't I take care of 3 people in wheelchairs so it made me so upset to see her treated like that so I talked to guest s. We'll it just got worse after that you all know that my granddaughter just got her cast off she had a hard time walking so much het feet and legs started to swell so she could not wear her shoes on the last night I tryed to take her to see the show the worker at the door would not let her in .i told her about the problem she could see her feet but still would not let her I katelyn was crying and hurt that she could is the show.there was 2 other people there telling her she could not keep her out that was discrimination all she would say was it was their policy .now I'm going to write a note to DCl and tell them about it I told gs about it again and told them her name was Amy

First if an eleven year old child can not enter/exit the ocean on their own they have no business in it.

Second places have rules/reasons that you must be wearing shoes to enter them.

Third you seem to be caught up on the word "discrimination" was she not able to put on a simple pair of flip flops? My point is should some one with a sun burn be admitted with no shirt due to the sun burn? Where do we draw the line?....

 

[k3chantal]

yes it is l I know the law on this one if it is a proven medical reason

I would imagine that Disney would want to protect your daughter from the possibility of hurting her unprotected feet. They wouldn't want to be liable if your child stepped on something; further injuring her feet. I would imagine if you knew that shoes were uncomfortable or painful that you could have brought some kind of slippers for her to wear or flip flops.

In my opinion, I don't think DVC broke any laws. In fact, I think they were only protecting themselves from getting into a situation.

I remember being frustrated that my son was able to get on Expedition Everest and when he enjoyed it, we went back and he was suddenly not tall enough. Different shoes/ different CM, etc..... I could have stomped all around and become irate that they would not let him on, but in the end, they were trying to protect him (and themselves) from unnecessary harm. In both of your examples, I think this reasoning applies.

There is so much to do on a ship or any Disney venue, I just don't think it is worth getting overly upset.

 

[bumbershoot]

I'm no expert. But I went to the ADA site.

Subpart C – Specific Requirements
§ 36.301 Eligibility criteria.

(a) General. A public accommodation shall not impose or apply eligibility criteria that screen out or tend to screen out an individual with a disability or any class of individuals with disabilities from fully and equally enjoying any goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations, unless such criteria can be shown to be necessary for the provision of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations being offered.

(b) Safety. A public accommodation may impose legitimate safety requirements that are necessary for safe operation. Safety requirements must be based on actual risks and not on mere speculation, stereotypes, or generalizations about individuals with disabilities.

First, a temporary need to go barefoot isn't, most likely, a "disability". Slippers could have been found, flip flops, etc.

But even so...see above.

They weren't keeping her out BECAUSE of her problematic feet. They were keeping her out because she needed to have coverings on them.



That's just my understanding of things.

 

[NCConch]

It sounds to me that the poor little girl should have had her feet up and enjoying a cool drink. As the dad to a kid with special needs I understand how we sometimes need an extra time out and do things on our own schedule.

 

[4HppyCamprs]

This is contradictory to other posts/threads I've read where people have said that the ships DO follow ADA regulations.

In my HR classes it is stated that foriegn businesses doing business in America must follow American laws.

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

 

[justmestace]

I feel really bad that this woman felt that she needed to vent a little, and came here hoping for at least a little sympathy, if nothing else, but yet all most people here have done is pick at her.

Rather than tell her all the reasons she (according to the posts) has no right to be upset, would it have been so hard for people to just say "I'm sorry" and walk away???

Is it really necessary to tell her that she needs to correct her grammar?

Is it really necessary to tell her all the reasons why you people think the little girl shouldn't have been allowed in the theater without shoes? I'm willing to bet that there have been hundreds of toddlers who were capable of walking on their own (thereby risking being hurt or breaking a rule) who were carried into the theater without any shoes on.

My guess about the 11 year old not being allowed to go into the ocean, is that she probably had a physical disability of some sort, and someone was probably wanting to carry her in, just so she could have the experience of feeling the ocean waves. I can imagine that this scenario has played out at Castaway Cay a hundred times or more. I can't imagine a safer place to let a child experience that.
Regardless, we don't know the facts, we weren't there. Perhaps no wrong was committed by any Disney CM, or perhaps there was. Obviously coming to the Disney Boards to express her bad feelings was a mistake, because she got exactly what she DIDN'T need....a bunch of people telling her in so many words that she doesn't understand, doesn't use appropriate grammar, shouldn't have a RIGHT to be upset.

Shame on all of you. I've seen more sympathy dished out here for people who have carelessly misplaced (lost, left behind, thought they had an item stolen) something onboard and came here to tell about it.

Where's the Disney love?

 

[all5ofus]

The US Supreme Court has ruled that foreign flagged cruise ships MAY be subject to some aspects of the ADA and could be held liable for discrimination in some cases if they operate in US waters or stop in US ports.

The distinctions are fairly complex and the cruise lines have quite a bit of latitude on their side, but most cruise lines try to follow ADA even in aspects they may not legally required to accommodate their guests with disabilities and also to limit potential liability.

 

[bumbershoot]

Stace, I don't accept he shame you want me to have. To read something that doesn't make sense and just blow it off with a fake "so sorry", to me, is condescending and rude. To do the person the kindness of reading and trying to understand the situation is far kinder.

This person seems to have witnessed a situation with an unrelated girl. To try to comprehend the whole situation is not rude. To suggest that when they write in about it they try to be more clear is not rude. To just want to know what on earth was being described shows interest in the vent and an interest in the person. That isn't rude either.

With the granddaughter, the op needs to work out what makes an injury or temporary situation an actual disability. IMO that's not a word to throw around, and if she is going to write in about it, I think she should be clear on the situation and the difference.

To be disappointed in things that went awry is one thing. To be irate about a situation that it seems they merely witnessed and haven't described well enough that we know what happened seems a bit much. (The fact that we have to use our imagination to work out what happened and who said "no" and why shows that it wasn't described) Which is why I wanted more information. And to call in the big guns of talking about the ADA and calling it discrimination for something that slippers or flip flops would have covered just doesn't seem right.

If I'm going to vent on a message board, I know that I feel it's important to be clear. And even when clear it still doesn't mean people have to agree with me or can't ask further questions.

 

[JohnDS]

Stace, I don't accept he shame you want me to have. To read something that doesn't make sense and just blow it off with a fake "so sorry", to me, is condescending and rude. To do the person the kindness of reading and trying to understand the situation is far kinder.

This person seems to have witnessed a situation with an unrelated girl. To try to comprehend the whole situation is not rude. To suggest that when they write in about it they try to be more clear is not rude. To just want to know what on earth was being described shows interest in the vent and an interest in the person. That isn't rude either.

With the granddaughter, the op needs to work out what makes an injury or temporary situation an actual disability. IMO that's not a word to throw around, and if she is going to write in about it, I think she should be clear on the situation and the difference.

To be disappointed in things that went awry is one thing. To be irate about a situation that it seems they merely witnessed and haven't described well enough that we know what happened seems a bit much. (The fact that we have to use our imagination to work out what happened and who said "no" and why shows that it wasn't described) Which is why I wanted more information. And to call in the big guns of talking about the ADA and calling it discrimination for something that slippers or flip flops would have covered just doesn't seem right.

If I'm going to vent on a message board, I know that I feel it's important to be clear. And even when clear it still doesn't mean people have to agree with me or can't ask further questions.

This fairly sums up my thoughts on the issue. I honestly did not understand the original post and sought clarification.

When trying to understand this it's important to understand the expectations and if they were reasonable. For instance, is it reasonable for a resort location in a foreign country to comply with U.S. law? The company certainly could choose to do so but the suggestion was that they were somehow negligent in not doing so. I just don't know that that is true.

To simply say sorry and walk away wouldn't really serve much purpose. However to understand the actual circumstances of what happened and why, could help someone avoid a similar situation. Perhaps even the OP could understand what went wrong and avoid the problem in the future.

 

[Vidia2]

I feel really bad that this woman felt that she needed to vent a little, and came here hoping for at least a little sympathy, if nothing else, but yet all most people here have done is pick at her.

I'm with you on this. I was going to suggest that OP post on the disabilities forum where the grammar police aren't as active but there you have to deal with the entitlement police which is much more cruel in my opinion.

Good thing OP didn't mention autism or entitlement police would already be on it anywhere on the boards.

 

[justmestace]

For some people, the post I made won't apply.....so if you feel it doesn't appy to you, then don't worry about it. I really don't need or want to see anyone come defend themselves to me. I'm not the OP.

MMouse....after all these years on the DIS, I was able to read your post and understand that you really meant no harm or disrespect. I think that you speak carefully and think about what you're going to say, so that you DON'T hurt anyone's feelings. I haven't met you, but I think you're a caring person.
The problem is, the OP may not feel the same way as I do, or she may not have taken your post that way.

I'm just saying that I felt bad for her. A lot of people are very dedicated to Disney, and don't want to think that there could have been a problem. I just think that if that IS the reason some people posted the way they did, then they really weren't offering anything helpful, and rather should have just moved on to the next thread.