Attention Potential Renters - PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE

[jekjones1558]

I am sorry to say that this fix no longer works for me either. Hopefully someone will post another way to check on previous posts of a DISer.

 

[WebmasterDoc]

Searching for past posts is merely one of many ways to become "familiar" with a potential rentor. While reading posts made by someone can certainly offer a sense of "who they are" it may not be helpful when some has only a few posts. I would also try to speak with them on the phone and ask for and verify references to get more comfortable with someone before sending $$$$ to them.

The point of the suggestions made is to emphasize the importance of trying to establish a level of trust with the person you want to rent from.

A poster with only a few posts may still be as great a member to work with as someone with many posts. The important thing here is to make sure you are comfortable with ANYONE before you send money to them.

Ideally, it would be great if a rental could be made with a family member or next-door-neighbor. Since that is not an option for most, anything you can do to become familiar with the member will be to your advantage.

 

[crisi]

Doc,

While I agree its important to get a level of trust, I'd also like to point out that several DVC owners have decided not to rent to a particular person when the person wanted too much assurance, too many phone calls, or too much detail. This is a situation which requires trust on both sides, but it is also a situation where most members can find a less "high maintenance" home for their points. If its going to take a lot to make a person comfortable renting points, renting points may not be a good option - you may just want to call CRO.

To use a rather sexist analogy - no girl wants to date a guy who cheats on her, but no guy wants to date a girl who calls him every half hour on his cell phone to check on him either.

 

[WebmasterDoc]

..

While I agree its important to get a level of trust, I'd also like to point out that several DVC owners have decided not to rent to a particular person when the person wanted too much assurance, too many phone calls, or too much detail. This is a situation which requires trust on both sides, but it is also a situation where most members can find a less "high maintenance" home for their points. ... To use a rather sexist analogy - no girl wants to date a guy who cheats on her, but no guy wants to date a girl who calls him every half hour on his cell phone to check on him either.

If I was trying to rent from a member who refused to provide reasonable information - like address, phone number, written contract, references - I would RUN from the rental. I would regard such roadblocks as a huge waving red flag. If this thread deters a few renters from such members, it has met it's purpose.

The members who won't work with someone wanting assurance are exactly the ones this thread is providing a warning about. I realize there are those renting who are not at all "high maintenance" and a few of those have also complained about problems with their rentals after the fact.

From my vantage point as the one who has received hunderds of PMs and emails when rentals are not what they expected (on both sides), I'd rather advise renters to have as much contact with a renting member as possible - especially now that renters cannot even get independent confirmation of their reservation. If that's analogous to dating someone who calls your cel phone, then so be it. I look at it as part of the rental process. If it's too much trouble to reassure the person renting from you then at least make that clear up front so they can look for someone more accessible.

In most dating situations I'd expect that no money would be changing hands ... and if that were an expectation, I'd certainly call it something other than a "date".

The suggestions made in this and other threads are intended to provide some cautions. If some renters are too high maintenance, by all means don't accept any money from them and if some members are reluctant to provide personal contact, by all means don't send them any money.

 

[crisi]

I'm afraid I'm not making myself clear.

Someone renting points needs to get as much information as makes them comfortable - but their MAY be a point where the owner you are working with stops being comfortable with the amount of information you are requesting. A home number may be reasonable, a work number may be reasonable. Or perhaps they don't feel comfortable giving you a work number. That is the owner's choice. At that point you can decide to continue to work with the person or not. But the owner also gets to constantly reevaluate working with you - at least until money changes hands (and even then the owner controls the reservation) - badger them for a work number they aren't comfortable giving, insist on a three way call with member services they don't want to do, as them for references, call them every week to say "can you send me another screen shot of my reservation?" there may be some point in the process where the member says "this isn't worth it" and drops you. Or maybe you find a new best friend - who knows.

I don't deal with this like you do, I don't rent my points - I don't have enough to rent and if I weren't going to use the few I'd have, I wouldn't rent them. Because it isn't worth the bother for the amount of money points sell for, when I can give them to friends or relatives. And I'm not giving out a ton of personal information to make a stranger feel "comfortable." I've been on the wrong side of someone having too much personal information about me and misusing it - isn't worth it.

I'm not saying money changes hands in a date, I'm saying that when two people date, they need to have trust - going both directions. She needs to trust him, but he needs to FEEL that she trusts him, without the constant phone calls - or the relationship may not be worth maintaining for him.

 

[mikesmom]

At some level I have to agree with Crisi. I've rented out points a few times - all situations where either health issues came up or relatives bailed on us. We've ended up getting to know some really lovely people. That being said, I can imagine situations where too much is too much. I have been perfectly comfortable giving people my home phone number. I also give out my work number. I have my own business, so there is no one to complain about personal calls at work. Because of the business, I also have a website of long standing where anyone could see what I do, where my business is, and get way more info than they ever wanted about employees, products, etc. However, I can imagine situations where an owner is not supposed to take personal calls at work and would not be comfortable sharing the number. I can recall one instance where the first email I received from a would be renter basically said "do you have two references, I need a contract, and oh yeah, is that your lowest price." Okay, that one was going to be high maintenance on several levels and I just said no thank you and moved on.

If you think about it, we all contradict ourselves about renting points. We tend to frown on the "professional" renter who does this on a regular basis. At the same time, we encourage references and contracts - not something right at hand if you don't rent points on an ongoing basis. I'm not saying I have a solution - there is no easy solution. Bottom line, renting is problematic. Those who are too gullible shouldn't do it - too much risk. On the flip side, it's not for the very insecure who will drive the owner crazy. If renting is done at all it should be a win win situation for all involved. Education is key.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I recently tried clicking on member names to check other posts on the board. I am interested in buying points to transfer. Everytime I request other posts .....it tells me no matches. Help!

 

[crisi]

..... I can recall one instance where the first email I received from a would be renter basically said "do you have two references, I need a contract, and oh yeah, is that your lowest price." Okay, that one was going to be high maintenance on several levels and I just said no thank you and moved on. ....

I just wonder how many people looking for points just sort of get ignored by members because they manage to annoy the person they are doing business with at some point in the process. And while it isn't NICE, I can see being passive aggressive about just stopping responding to someone who is being too demanding if money has not changed hands (and I don't think anyone has any obligation at all to respond to an email or PM that is demanding right from first contact). "We" tell them to ask for all this information, but the truth is, you may or may not get it and not everyone who is looking to rent points is going to find an owner - there are more people looking to rent now than there are owners with points - at least around here. Owners have a responsibility to be trustworthy, but there is competition out there to be "good renter" as well. And that pays off in more than just this years rentals - there are a number of people on this board who rent points to the same people year after year and form a relationship.

Part of educating our renters is educating them that its a two way street - this isn't a case of 'the customer is always right' and owners need to bend over backwards for the renters. Some owners may be in a really tight spot and willing to do so - but most who post points available get far more response than they have points, and most owners seem to be cruising the points wanted listings and selectively responding.

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

If you "google" the person's username something usually turns up related to the DISboards. Then once you click on that, there's usually another link that will allow you to access other posts made on the same board. It sometimes takes awhile to weed through, especially if the person is a long time poster, or belongs to several different boards with the same username.

 

[WebmasterDoc]

I just wonder how many people looking for points just sort of get ignored by members because they manage to annoy the person they are doing business with at some point in the process. And while it isn't NICE, I can see being passive aggressive about just stopping responding to someone who is being too demanding if money has not changed hands (and I don't think anyone has any obligation at all to respond to an email or PM that is demanding right from first contact). "We" tell them to ask for all this information, but the truth is, you may or may not get it and not everyone who is looking to rent points is going to find an owner - there are more people looking to rent now than there are owners with points - at least around here. Owners have a responsibility to be trustworthy, but there is competition out there to be "good renter" as well. And that pays off in more than just this years rentals - there are a number of people on this board who rent points to the same people year after year and form a relationship.

Part of educating our renters is educating them that its a two way street - this isn't a case of 'the customer is always right' and owners need to bend over backwards for the renters. Some owners may be in a really tight spot and willing to do so - but most who post points available get far more response than they have points, and most owners seem to be cruising the points wanted listings and selectively responding.

While you are certainly welcome to treat potential renters as you wish, I will continue to urge them to get references (these do NOT need to be rental references - there are many ways to provide a personal reference), speak with the member and get a feel for whom they are dealing with. If you choose NOT to provide that level of comfort to a renter - that is certainly your right, but please let them know before accepting any money. The purpose of this thread was/is to provide suggestions to potential renters about the process and what things to look for to avoid some of the unfortunate situations a few have found.

If any member chooses to ignore the needs of the potential renters coming here, I have no problem with that but will continue to direct renters to this thread, the rental agreement thread and the Rental Primer thread for information to assist them.

Hopefully some renters will make note of those members who have made comments in this thread and will contact or avoid them based on the attitudes displayed here about renters.

From some of the comments, complaints the Rent/Trade mods have received, it appears there are almost as many members who need to be educated as renters coming here for the first time. It is definitely a two-way street. I just hope that those who don't want to provide a comfort level to a potential renter let them know that before accepting any money instead of after the fact.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

While you are certainly welcome to treat potential renters as you wish, I will continue to urge them to get references (these do NOT need to be rental references - there are many ways to provide a personal reference.

Any suggestions on other personal references to use if you don't have a rental history? Everytime I have to put a reference down on a form of some kind like a bank loan, I just give the names of some colleagues at work who can verify (if asked, which they never are) that I am a great person with no apparent gambling or drug problems. What use would such a reference be to a potential renter? I am probably not thinking enough outside the box, but some specific suggestions might be helpful for potential renters to request.

Thanks -- Suzanne

 

[TLSnell1981]

I know I probably bugged my rentee. I rented points for my son's honeymoon. It was incredibly important to me that things went right. I don't know if things changed from the time we intially rented to right before they went, but all of a sudden they were told their ressie was no good. The people we rented from doubled checked and said everything was fine and it was. It was a little nerve racking and I truly appreciate the extra mile they went for us. I am now an owner so I hope that makes it easier to check on things if we rent or transfer points again.

 

[WebmasterDoc]

Any suggestions on other personal references to use if you don't have a rental history? Everytime I have to put a reference down on a form of some kind like a bank loan, I just give the names of some colleagues at work who can verify (if asked, which they never are) that I am a great person with no apparent gambling or drug problems. What use would such a reference be to a potential renter? I am probably not thinking enough outside the box, but some specific suggestions might be helpful for potential renters to request.

Thanks -- Suzanne

The "personal reference" comment was directed at the suggestion in this thread that those members who don't have a "business" of renting points won't have any references to offer. Obviously, the best reference would be from someone who has rented from a member in the past, but lacking that ANY personal reference would help. As you mention, no one has checked on your reference in the past - then shame on them, at least you provided them with a reference.

My point in initiating this thread was that almost every one of those renters who has reported a problem with their rental had ignored the general advice offered on the DIS for years. In most cases, it appeared that they were blinded by a "good" deal on a reservation and just gladly sent money to a complete stranger and then found themselves without a reservation. All of the suggestions made are an attempt to urge renters to take some form of pre-emptive action to protect themselves. If all of these suggestions were followed , is it possible that someone could still be taken? - absolutely!!

However, if all of these steps are followed the likelyhood that the renter will find someone trustworthy will be greatly increased, IMO.

Above all, the best advice that may be provided to anyone wanting to rent a reservation from a DVC member would be - Caveat Emptor - Buyer Beware.

 

[DisDaydreamer]

The "personal reference" comment was directed at the suggestion in this thread that those members who don't have a "business" of renting points won't have any references to offer. Obviously, the best reference would be from someone who has rented from a member in the past, but lacking that ANY personal reference would help. As you mention, no one has checked on your reference in the past - then shame on them, at least you provided them with a reference.

My point in initiating this thread was that almost every one of those renters who has reported a problem with their rental had ignored the general advice offered on the DIS for years. In most cases, it appeared that they were blinded by a "good" deal on a reservation and just gladly sent money to a complete stranger and then found themselves without a reservation. All of the suggestions made are an attempt to urge renters to take some form of pre-emptive action to protect themselves. If all of these suggestions were followed , is it possible that someone could still be taken? - absolutely!!

However, if all of these steps are followed the likelyhood that the renter will find someone trustworthy will be greatly increased, IMO.

Above all, the best advice that may be provided to anyone wanting to rent a reservation from a DVC member would be - Caveat Emptor - Buyer Beware.

I have not been a renter or a rentor of DVC. That said, I have had many experiences and or transactions via the Internet. I have found that you can through some simple exploration find the supporting info, or lack there of, to help you make your decisions. All things considered... the trust should be based on the retrievable (or provided) info on your seller (varified of course). When selling on eBay, I always offer verifiable and useful info. If your seller/rentor does not offer verifiable info.... beware. I am a trustworthy person... so I am going to give you every bit of info to understand and trust that I am. Anything less is just questionable. JMHO.

I think Doc is right that we just need to be careful and questioning of all transactions, whether selling or buying... Question everything... even if you feel ok with it.

 

[oztraveller]

I have found this experience very interesting. No doubt I would have taken short cuts due to my lack of time to do the 'ground work',
I can see now that a little time taken to dot the 'i's and cross the 't's save a lot of heart ache.
Thank you for this timely warning

 

[JPS439]

Wow, how'd you even find a 2yr old thread?

 

[jcf]

While I have had renters contact me several times to as little as none after making the initial reservation. I always use an agreement.

I actually triple check a persons reservation prior to arrival even when a renter doesn't ask as MS has never gotten it right even messing up my own reservations.

A classic example of MS - listing a wife's first and last name as "Amy Amy" despite the husband's name also being listed. Either that's lazy or incompetence. Also, minor stuff like ME info, DDP, spelling names wrong though some major goofs as having arrival/departure date off by a day.

Rented more this year than last do to work schedule. Naturally, time opens up near Thanksgiving and I am going to pay cash to stay at BLT - rack rate

 

[justkem]

Two comments: First, I'm going to be renting for my first time this summer, either via an off-site timeshare property or through the DVC. Second, I just finished a statistics 101 midterm tonight that I'm fairly sure I aced.

If there have been thousands of successful transactions and only 10 of them (5 from the same fraudster) that have gone sour over a 7 year period, this is a statistical failure rate that is completely within acceptable limits for any organization. An "unusual" transaction is anything with a probability of less than 5%. Compare that to the rack rates you pay through Magic Your Way at any of the Villas, and the expected probability is that you will save a *great deal* of money renting from a DVC owner if you absolutely must stay on property.

I'm by no means a veteran to this process, but I have spent the last two months researching this... and honestly, how anyone can fault the DIS boards for the very slight percentage of transactions that fail (1 in 1000 being = .001 = .1%, and the actual "fail" rate is only a fraction of that) is completely beyond me.

My deepest empathy goes out to the very small number of people who have been taken in by con artists.

My sincerest scorn goes to those who blame the DIS boards for the actions of the con artists and the people who were too trusting and got burned.

That may sound a bit harsh for a first post, but so it goes. I've lurked here for a long time while planning my first trip to Disney this year. Happy travels to everyone, and let's recognize the inherent good and human kindness in the world without poisoning the well.

 

[medicgirl177]

This thread is from 2007. It has a wealth of information. However, six years is a LONG time.... One previous poster mentioned Googling the renter/rentee. Now you can look people up on Twitter/FaceBook. Not much is a mystery these days!

Awesome information. I'm starting to warm up to the idea of renting points. I would be diligent about the process though. Thanks!!