Attendance Down, Revenue Up

[rteetz]

Right, but if Imagineering were all that was necessary then everything would be on that same level. This is a management failure within Disney itself.

I think Disney management does give imagineering a lot of freedom in that they are allowed to go on trips around the world to research things. However Disney management has reigned in that freedom recently and tried to cut that spending. Part of the reason the former imagineering head was let go.

 

[Enjoying Life]

I would not be shocked if that is a play on words to make it sound stronger later in the year.

That is highly unlikely. Disney executives know that every single word of their earnings report has to be factual or they open themselves up to SEC and shareholder law suits.

 

[916chipndale]

Anyone notice a difference in parks?

I haven't been keeping up with wait times lately but just looked up the current wait times on easywdw.

5:15 pm and TSMM has a 55 minute wait, TOT 30 min, Rock n Roll 40, Star Tours and Great Movie Ride 20 min

Big Thunder 30 min, Peter Pan 45, Space 25, Splash 35, Seven Dwarfs 60,

AK surprisingly seems to have the longest waits despite it closing in 45 minutes. Dinosaur has a 60 min, Kali has a 90 although I expect those are inflated a little

Actually shocked at those waits, especially the MK's

 

[Tekneek]

That is highly unlikely. Disney executives know that every single word of their earnings report has to be factual or they open themselves up to SEC and shareholder law suits.

Absolutely correct. They would not ever mention a decline that they did not have a material reason to disclose. They don't make these statements for theatrical reasons. That is why when they say "modest decrease", you know the decrease was meaningful to even justify being mentioned.

 

[sheetz]

Yeah, if the decrease in attendance was insignificant they'd say attendance was "flat".

 

[rteetz]

Yeah, if the decrease in attendance was insignificant they'd say attendance was "flat".

Which they did. We will have to wait until we see TEA numbers of course but I don't think the drop was significant. I'm sure that drop mostly affected DHS and Epcot while MK and AK either increased or stayed the same.

 

[sheetz]

Which they did. We will have to wait until we see TEA numbers of course but I don't think the drop was significant. I'm sure that drop mostly affected DHS and Epcot while MK and AK either increased or stayed the same.

As far as I know they only described attendance at domestic resorts in aggregate (which includes DLR) as being "relatively flat." Attendance at WDW had a "modest" decline.

BTW, I don't believe TEA numbers at all.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Thanks for clarifying the M&G's are indeed "high quality entertainment" after all-I assume that's your new stance correct?

Although Baymax and Talking Mickey are pretty technical, I know the suit tech, not sure on Olaf or Kylo.

And repeat customers are indeed a large %, hmm I wonder why?

Nope...overshot the runway again.

And since you bring it up...since attendance is flattening and economies are slowing down...those repeat customers are so happy on the whole that they're gonna pick up the slack and come more now, right?

They...we...I...
Haven't even noticed the patronizing constuction schedules and 50% price increases in about 8 years...

I'm sure everyone couldn't be happier...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

As far as I know they only described attendance at domestic resorts in aggregate (which includes DLR) as being "relatively flat." Attendance at WDW had a "modest" decline.

BTW, I don't believe TEA numbers at all.

The motley fool (I know...grain of salt) had indicated that there was a solid increase in Disneyland and a solid drop at WDW.

Now...were it really gets fun is to see what UOR does...

They could have pulled away a significant chunk of market share.

All hell is gonna break loose. It's probably why we see the go to move - "cuts" already in full deployment.

Which is wrong...because expansion is the only way to combat it.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I apologize in advance for the multi-quotes. I normally don't like to do them but it seems much easier this time around.

I have a very good friend whose dad is an imagineer and was talking to her a couple days ago about all the price increases. She told me her dad says the main reason is to try to lessen crowds...that they do not like reaching capacity and having to close gates. People who spend tons of time and money on a big WDW vacation are of course not pleased to go to the parks and be told they can't go in. She said Disney does see that as a major problem...would maybe explain why they were calling people over Easter to ask them to go to a park other than MK?

I have no doubt that is what your friend's father was told but without a doubt employees are many times told things that are a way to placate them, give them something to tell any questioners, etc. You can see here on this board most of us just aren't buying the whole "crowd control" line and honestly that's for good reason because for many of us that reason isn't matching up with what is either happening in real time life or with what makes the most sense. Being at capacity happens (from what I understand) only a handful of times out of 365 days a year (meaning it's just not THAT big of an issue and there are bigger fish to fry than reaching capacity). Many of us tend to lean towards recouping $ as to why they increased prices as much as they did across many things (1-day tiered, larger than expected [at least to many] on multi-day tickets, tiered MNSSHP and tiered MVMCP, increased food prices [while expected some were quite large increases] as well as removing items off menus and subing in "lesser" quality food items while at the same time raising the price for that meal, etc).

People who are habitual guests continue to be so, but find ways to spend less money (or the same amount as before, resulting in a "downgraded" experience), and come home longing for the "good old days". People who are first time guests come home and say "never again!", or, "it was OK, but I am in no rush to go back." Those are painful words to hear if you are a Disney exec.

I've always wondered though how much a Disney exec gets to hear about the average joe's complaints. I'm completely agreeing with you because those exact comments are ones I see on review sites. You def.can't please them all but still many people's complaints are soo similar and are ones echoed throughout social media (FB, review sites, internet forums, information blogs, etc).

5:15 pm and TSMM has a 55 minute wait, TOT 30 min, Rock n Roll 40, Star Tours and Great Movie Ride 20 min

Big Thunder 30 min, Peter Pan 45, Space 25, Splash 35, Seven Dwarfs 60,

AK surprisingly seems to have the longest waits despite it closing in 45 minutes. Dinosaur has a 60 min, Kali has a 90 although I expect those are inflated a little

Actually shocked at those waits, especially the MK's

When you say shocked did you mean that the wait times were higher than you expected or lower than you expected?

 

[rteetz]

As far as I know they only described attendance at domestic resorts in aggregate (which includes DLR) as being "relatively flat." Attendance at WDW had a "modest" decline.

BTW, I don't believe TEA numbers at all.

Yeah the TEA numbers aren't the best but it's really the only thing we can go off of. It's been said Tokyo is in fact the most attended park in the world.

 

[sheetz]

Yeah the TEA numbers aren't the best but it's really the only thing we can go off of. It's been said Tokyo is in fact the most attended park in the world.

For years TEA has had Knott's Berry Farm's attendance in the mid 3 million range, but a few months ago Cedar Fair announced Knott's Berry Farm had topped 5 million guests for 2015. So that means that either Knott's attendance increased by 40+% in one year or TEA's previous estimates were complete garbage. I choose to believe the latter.

 

[916chipndale]

When you say shocked did you mean that the wait times were higher than you expected or lower than you expected?

Lower

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Lower

Ok that's what I thought

 

[rteetz]

For years TEA has had Knott's Berry Farm's attendance in the mid 3 million range, but a few months ago Cedar Fair announced Knott's Berry Farm had topped 5 million guests for 2015. So that means that either Knott's attendance increased by 40+% in one year or TEA's previous estimates were complete garbage. I choose to believe the latter.

Well they are estimates. Disney and universal don't release official numbers so it's all we have to go off by. I can't see their numbers for Disney being off by multiple millions.

 

[916chipndale]

Ok that's what I thought

I used to look at wait times a lot during the afternoon just to see how crowded the parks were (weird, I know) . Just haven't done it in a while and the last time I did Space definitely didn't have a 25 minute wait.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I used to look at wait times a lot during the afternoon just to see how crowded the parks were (weird, I know) . Just haven't done it in a while and the last time I did Space definitely didn't have a 25 minute wait.

I totally don't think it's weird..I must admit I've done that too You should see one of my youtube lists..filled with Disney rides and park music.

 

[sheetz]

Well they are estimates. Disney and universal don't release official numbers so it's all we have to go off by. I can't see their numbers for Disney being off by multiple millions.

If Knott's numbers are off by that much I can easily see Disney's numbers off by millions. If, as insiders claim, TDL is really the most visited theme park in the world, then those numbers are off by quite a lot.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I used to look at wait times a lot during the afternoon just to see how crowded the parks were (weird, I know) . Just haven't done it in a while and the last time I did Space definitely didn't have a 25 minute wait.

not weird at all to be people on this board, we're here because we love Disney haha. I bet most of us check wait times and daydream about being at wdw!

 

[newdeal]

Hmmmm. . . Before reading, I wondered whether the decreased attendance was, as some have speculated, a desired result to enhance guest experience. Upon reading, nope - I was reminded about the dropping of Resident blackout dates to try to boost attendance, so the decline was not desired. And the article states they still missed analyst expectations, so apparently the price hikes were not intended to scare anyone away. It's hard to say whether price hikes caused any attendance drop, as many of the hikes are pretty new and lots of travelers plan their vacations much further out. I imagine quite a lot of people were kind of stuck with the increases at first because they felt locked into their plans already. I imagine there's a lag of a couple quarters to really assess the effects.

However, the article does somewhat refute the "it may not be good for the guests, but it's still good for the shareholder" argument. In the long run, what's good for the stockholder HAS to be good for the customer or something is wrong with your business plan.

Its the strength of the American dollar compared to the Canadian dollar combined with the recession in Brazil