Ask Amy - Parents ignored at holidays. Your thoughts?

[The Mystery Machine]

Today's Ask Amy is about grand parents who sacrificed vacation time and money to visit family upset over their kids refusing to do the same.

Personally, I think everyone has their own choices to make and sacrifices there are willing to make. I can't judge the parents not knowing their personal circumstances. I also dislike that the grandparents are digging in their feet rather than doing the traveling themselves.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...3e8512-8e38-11e5-baf4-bdf37355da0c_story.html

"Has there been a generational change that has once again turned boomers into the sandwich generation", (sic).

The Boomer here is not "sandwiched" for starters, lol. His kids are grown.

What is going on here is that he has an expectation of how his life should go in retirement and the kids have other plans.

Bottom line he needs to adjust his expectations and make it work. Whining about how you did it is petty.

 

[havaneselover]

I'm a single mom and twice a year I drive about 1,800 miles round trip to see my parents. Honestly I get slightly resentful that they won't make time to come see us and think I should always make the trip. Now they do have two very nice homes in resort areas so it's much more of a vacation for us to see them. But it still would be nice if once a year my mom would visit for a weekend.

 

[hopemax]

In 1978, when I was 2, my family moved from the mid-west to Washington because my Dad needed a job. Since then I can count the number of times I saw my extended family.

We would go back to the mid-west once every 5 years or so. Never for a holiday, because of fears of the weather. My Dad's sister's family lived in Idaho, and apparently the first year my family drove there for Thanksgiving (too little for me to remember). And one year, after my aunt got divorced they came for Christmas to our house. Other than that, no one wanted to drive over mountain passes that might get closed and leave you stranded (we got the worst storms in 20 years the year aunt came to our house and they did get stuck). We would do Easter more regularly with aunt's family, at both houses, but even that wasn't an every year thing. After my Grandfather passed, my paternal Grandmother would always come for a month at our house, a month at aunt's house. Then when I was a senior in high school, she moved in with my parents. So she was usually around for a holiday, but she was the only one.

So I don't know about these "old" days when everyone traveled everywhere. It wasn't my experience. And other than me bugging my parents to go somewhere because other kids traveled, I don't think there was any grief about it. Occasional, "we miss you, but we understand." None of them would even contemplate getting on a plane to WA, so I guess it was easier to understand why we wouldn't go the other way. But I suppose it was also because my maternal Grandmother, left NYC and moved to Illinois when she married in 1946 and with 5 kids, there was never ANY thought about visiting for the holidays (or any other time of year). It was just never expected if someone moved away.

DH and I TRY to travel. But it's only because we don't have kids of our own. If we had kids, we'd stay at our house, and that would be that, come to us if you'd like. We're in Colorado, DH's parents are in Portland, extended family is in Seattle. When we go there we fly into PDX and drive up with his parents and fly out of Seattle. It's a lot of work, it's expensive ($1000 for airfare for 2 people now) and frankly, I don't know how much we're really missed, other than platitudes. MIL makes it seem like the world will end if we're not there, but with what actually happens, it's so my DH can run errands and they get more socializing time. My parents moved to FL in 2005 so alternating years we would go there. Until we bought our house and couldn't afford it that year, and so that started a tradition of every other cycle my parents would come here. I love going to WDW, but it is really, really nice every 4th year to not have to travel. I can put up a real tree that year. But now my Mom is gone, and I don't know how things will chance. It's our year for FL, so we'll do that. But I don't know if my Dad will want to come here by himself, or rather us still go there. I'd love to cut back on Seattle trips, and I think we're close. I can tell the cousins kind of wish they had more freedom to be with their families and there's a bit too much running around to multiple houses, but everyone does it for Grammy (DH maternal) and Grandpa (DH paternal). They are soon to be 90 and just turned 92, so everyone knows they aren't going to be around forever. I think once they are gone, things will change.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I have to admit, when I hear parents playing the martyr I hesitate to take their sob story at face value. It's entirely possible that his children would love nothing more than to visit 6 times a year but finances, work obligations, etc. don't make it feasible. If that's the case, you would think a parent would be understanding and take it upon themselves to shoulder the load (pay for the flights, go to them...). The goal is to see the family after all, why do the details matter as long as it happens?

Or, it's possible that the relationship between this man and his child(ren) is not all sunshine and roses and the limited visits are intentional -- see the parents just enough to fulfill the obligation, but not so much that it has a negative impact on your mental wellbeing. This is the kind of relationship I have with my (toxic) parents so I realize I have my own biases but, 1) children who withdraw and keep their parents at arms length (and the poor parents just have no idea why!), 2) parents who make themselves out to be victims because their kids don't have enough time for them (it'll never be enough), 3) parents who want to control when and how the visits should take place, 4) parents who make comparisons between themselves at that age (they were perfect and always had time for family, of course) and their ungrateful children of today... This kind of situation always gets my Spidey-senses tingling. I'd love to hear the son's point of view.

 

[cabanafrau]

I have to admit, when I hear parents playing the martyr I hesitate to take their sob story at face value. It's entirely possible that his children would love nothing more than to visit 6 times a year but finances, work obligations, etc. don't make it feasible. If that's the case, you would think a parent would be understanding and take it upon themselves to shoulder the load (pay for the flights, go to them...). The goal is to see the family after all, why do the details matter as long as it happens?

Or, it's possible that the relationship between this man and his child(ren) is not all sunshine and roses and the limited visits are intentional -- see the parents just enough to fulfill the obligation, but not so much that it has a negative impact on your mental wellbeing. This is the kind of relationship I have with my (toxic) parents so I realize I have my own biases but, 1) children who withdraw and keep their parents at arms length (and the poor parents just have no idea why!), 2) parents who make themselves out to be victims because their kids don't have enough time for them (it'll never be enough), 3) parents who want to control when and how the visits should take place, 4) parents who make comparisons between themselves at that age (they were perfect and always had time for family, of course) and their ungrateful children of today... This kind of situation always gets my Spidey-senses tingling. I'd love to hear the son's point of view.

I agree. If we did Sunday dinners with my in-laws (EVERY week as she insists they did when the boys were growing up) our relationship with them wouldn't be any closer whatsoever. Not only would they still complain about us, we'd also have the pleasure of listening to it weekly. Taking in all of that negativity weekly wouldn't be healthy.

 

[Julylady]

Interesting thread. When I was a kid my Dad's extended family always had a big dinner and present opening on Christmas Eve. We all traveled to my Grandparents house but the furthest person only lived about 20 miles away. My Grandmother insisted that everyone had to come to her house on Christmas Eve. My Mom's family got together on Christmas in the afternoon and the "aunts" took turns hosting the event. We always went to church on Christmas morning (after opening our stockings!). Now days, it seems like in my extended family, the individual families all want to stay home on the actual holiday and spend the day alone. Sometimes they invite the Grandparents to join them, but they are unwilling to pack up the kids to travel on the day. I can't say I blame them. The extended family events are always the weekend prior to Christmas or a weekend date between Christmas and New Years. On one side of the family we get together on the Thanksgiving weekend since the dates around Christmas are so busy!

I do wonder if the focus has changed from the "honor the grandparents" to "do what's easiest for me."

 

[kamik86]

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the parents are skewing the past events. I live 15 min from my parents. If I go into the town she lives in and she finds out she wonders why we didn't stop by.

I decided recently she has little right to complain. I invited her over 2 months ago to meet my new kittens. She didn't come until last weekend. When my Dad wanted to stop over as a favor to me (I called and asked him to stop by) to help with a plumbing issue (my parents call us for computer issues, I call Dad for handi-man maintenance issues).

Dad doesn't really get into the we should visit thing unless there is a reason. We see each other for holidays, birthdays, and when we have a reason to otherwise (like the computer and maintenance issues) he has no interest in cats and I knew wouldn't want to come meet the kittens. But if mom expects us to go over and see her between work and chores and everything else but can't find time when retired to stop over to visit us...


Now when I was a kid yes we did go to my grandma's (Dad's mom) every week after church. Well until Mom got mad at Grandma for some reason and suddenly no one had time anymore.

 

[quandrea]

I have to admit, when I hear parents playing the martyr I hesitate to take their sob story at face value. It's entirely possible that his children would love nothing more than to visit 6 times a year but finances, work obligations, etc. don't make it feasible. If that's the case, you would think a parent would be understanding and take it upon themselves to shoulder the load (pay for the flights, go to them...). The goal is to see the family after all, why do the details matter as long as it happens?

Or, it's possible that the relationship between this man and his child(ren) is not all sunshine and roses and the limited visits are intentional -- see the parents just enough to fulfill the obligation, but not so much that it has a negative impact on your mental wellbeing. This is the kind of relationship I have with my (toxic) parents so I realize I have my own biases but, 1) children who withdraw and keep their parents at arms length (and the poor parents just have no idea why!), 2) parents who make themselves out to be victims because their kids don't have enough time for them (it'll never be enough), 3) parents who want to control when and how the visits should take place, 4) parents who make comparisons between themselves at that age (they were perfect and always had time for family, of course) and their ungrateful children of today... This kind of situation always gets my Spidey-senses tingling. I'd love to hear the son's point of view.

This is how things are with my parents. Nothing I do would every be good enough. So they dumped me and my family and we are probably better for it. I often wonder if my parents had stood up to my grandparents back in the day if things might have turned out differently between us. These toxic relationships have a way of playing out over many generations. I'm hoping that not being exposed to my parents' crazy, dysfunctional and unrealistic expectations will help them forge healthier relationships in the future. I'm hoping the cycle of unhappy relations ends with me. They have great role models in my husbands relatives.

 

[scrapquitler]

My in laws complain that we don't visit them enough. When my husband was growing up, my FIL worked an 8-4 job and was home by 4:15, and my MIL hasn't worked a job outside the home since they got married over 50 years ago. My husband and his brother never played sports, but they were in some activities, but ones that didn't require tremendous amounts of time in practice/rehearsals. They spent their whole weekends visiting with family and doing family activities.

Now us. My husband works 70-80 hours a week, often at odd hours because his clients are global ( midngiht or 4 am conference calls in our house are a common thing). I don't currently work because I recently quit my job (which I worked second and third shift, and on the weekends). The big kid is currently in college, but she was very involved in extra curricular activities, which often involved staying after school until 10pm, and then more time on the weekends.

How do we spend our weekends? Well, if one of us is not working, the kids are probably at activities (play, dance recitals, classes, rehearsals) or we are trying to catch up on the things like grocery shopping, yard work, laundry etc. that we can't easily get done during the week (when my in laws were able to do it because of a much less stressful work schedule). We want to relax, sleep and catch up, and maybe have a family movie night.

In the meantime, my in laws complain that we don't want to come visit them for dinner on Sunday afternoon. Maybe because when we DO fit it into our schedule, they complain that the 4 hours we spend there 'isn't enough'????????????????????

 

[quandrea]

My in laws complain that we don't visit them enough. When my husband was growing up, my FIL worked an 8-4 job and was home by 4:15, and my MIL hasn't worked a job outside the home since they got married over 50 years ago. My husband and his brother never played sports, but they were in some activities, but ones that didn't require tremendous amounts of time in practice/rehearsals. They spent their whole weekends visiting with family and doing family activities.

Now us. My husband works 70-80 hours a week, often at odd hours because his clients are global ( midngiht or 4 am conference calls in our house are a common thing). I don't currently work because I recently quit my job (which I worked second and third shift, and on the weekends). The big kid is currently in college, but she was very involved in extra curricular activities, which often involved staying after school until 10pm, and then more time on the weekends.

How do we spend our weekends? Well, if one of us is not working, the kids are probably at activities (play, dance recitals, classes, rehearsals) or we are trying to catch up on the things like grocery shopping, yard work, laundry etc. that we can't easily get done during the week (when my in laws were able to do it because of a much less stressful work schedule). We want to relax, sleep and catch up, and maybe have a family movie night.

In the meantime, my in laws complain that we don't want to come visit them for dinner on Sunday afternoon. Maybe because when we DO fit it into our schedule, they complain that the 4 hours we spend there 'isn't enough'????????????????????

My parents were always angry when we only stayed four hours for a visit. They wanted all day visits. Just not possible with three babies in tow and three dogs waiting at home.

 

[tzolkin]

I just find it odd that the poster is acknowledging all of the hardships (limited time, financial strain, lack of vacation days) yet still insisting that their children come to them. It seems to me like they are resentful of all the time and money they spent. I just don't understand why you would want your children to endure the same.

They also mention traveling to visit family every holiday. Perhaps this is the reason (above all the others) that their children do not want to leave their homes for the holidays. In our family we had the opposite upbringing, but the same result. We had large family gatherings (30+ people), but my parents always hosted every holiday. Now that we are all grown with our own families, we want to spend holidays in our own homes being comfortable, carrying on traditions, and making memories for our children. It's not that we don't want to see our family (they are always welcome), we just prefer not to travel during the holidays.

 

[rigs32]

I agree with many posters here that there is a lack of understanding among some that the pace of family life and requirements of jobs, etc. is very different than it used to be. That increased pace doesn't allow for a lot of down time on a regular basis and if all vacation time is used for visiting family, then people are going to burn out since there's no chance to recharge batteries.

 

[cabanafrau]

My in laws complain that we don't visit them enough. When my husband was growing up, my FIL worked an 8-4 job and was home by 4:15, and my MIL hasn't worked a job outside the home since they got married over 50 years ago. My husband and his brother never played sports, but they were in some activities, but ones that didn't require tremendous amounts of time in practice/rehearsals. They spent their whole weekends visiting with family and doing family activities.

Now us. My husband works 70-80 hours a week, often at odd hours because his clients are global ( midngiht or 4 am conference calls in our house are a common thing). I don't currently work because I recently quit my job (which I worked second and third shift, and on the weekends). The big kid is currently in college, but she was very involved in extra curricular activities, which often involved staying after school until 10pm, and then more time on the weekends.

How do we spend our weekends? Well, if one of us is not working, the kids are probably at activities (play, dance recitals, classes, rehearsals) or we are trying to catch up on the things like grocery shopping, yard work, laundry etc. that we can't easily get done during the week (when my in laws were able to do it because of a much less stressful work schedule). We want to relax, sleep and catch up, and maybe have a family movie night.

In the meantime, my in laws complain that we don't want to come visit them for dinner on Sunday afternoon. Maybe because when we DO fit it into our schedule, they complain that the 4 hours we spend there 'isn't enough'????????????????????

So funny, my FIL was home by four, four thirty as well. That's caused plenty of strife for us over the years with their refusal to understand.

MIL ups the ante by peppering us with questions about what we're doing. She feels I should be knitting, sewing, quilting, etc., etc., etc., as she has always done, and my husband should be involved in a roster of hobbies as well. We don't dare mention we've gone to see a movie ("ridiculous waste of time or money") or if we dare mention we played golf with friends, one time a couple months back, we hear how "it's a stupid game, so boring, can't imagine why anyone bothers".

Nevermind that she thinks we should also have Sunday dinners together weekly, and probably time to visit aside from that as well each week. DH has reminded her on more than one occasion that days still only have 24 hours like they did in days of yore and weeks still clock in at seven days also. She feels the fact she had a handful of women come at the most once a week for painting or ceramics classes in her basement equates to my job and the fact FIL worked as a teacher and in the first couple years of their marriage worked a summer job is the same as my DH working 60 hours a week, attending grad school and having a small side business.

Sometimes I feel I'm a horrible person because one of the things I routinely give thanks for on Thanksgiving is it is a holiday they do not spend with us. Then I get a grip and remember there is no way I would be able to handle all the time we spend with them in December if I had to do Thanksgiving with them as well.

 

[Julie's Haircut]

It appears the complaining grandparents in the OP didn't want to travel to see THEIR families either when they were younger. They "sacrified" their vacation time and did it out of sense of duty or obligation. Sure, there was probably a guilt trip laid upon them, but no one held a gun to their heads and forced them to go. So stop whining now just because your kids have a stronger backbone than you had.

 

[book_junkie]

I think it's a huge shift in work issues, money and space as well. When I was growing up, we had specific days with specific relatives- Christmas Eve with one set of grandparents and cousins, Christmas Day with other grandparents and cousins, and that was that. We were also within maybe 2 hours drive of each other, so there wasn't a month where we didn't see grandparents, if not a week.

Now, all the cousins are spread out over the US due to jobs, as well our surviving parents. Add to that the fact that it's become extremely hard to take earned time off- I know with my job you have to have it approved weeks ahead of time, and it's a fight to get actual holidays off. In my husband's case, half the time he's not actually "off", he's on call (software engineer), and it's rare we can coordinate our times. It's made getting our move from TX to FL interesting to say the least. And we don't have kids- for the cousins that do, we hardly see them unless we go to them, and even then, it's like we're intruding in their world and their plans even though we've tried to coordinate when we're vising.

 

[eh24fan]

Back in the day, my 'boomer' parents had a different life. My mom was a stay-at-home mom and took care of the house, all of the chores and us kids. My dad got home from work and was able to relax after work because my mom had taken care of everything else. Those were the days.

Today DH and I both work full time and have one son. I work all freaking day Monday thru Friday, attempt a short trip to the gym when I can, help DS with what he needs, feed the family at 6:30pm and sometimes if I'm lucky, I get 30 minutes at the end of my day to watch TV and play with the dogs. Saturday and Sunday we do grocery shopping, laundry, dry cleaners, Home Depot, Costco, house cleaning and yard work. My car is still dirty because I never can find time to wash it.

Vacation days are spent waiting for the DirecTV guy, the guy who fixes the AC, a sick day because my DS is sick, days when I am sick, doctor appointments for yearly check-ups, etc.... you know the drill. I reserve one week every year for Disney... which is hardly considered days of rest (but loads of fun).

Yeah, I'm staying home this Thanksgiving for the first time ever and I am not sorry at all. The 3 of us are sleeping in, wearing PJs all darn day and catching up on Blue Bloods. Do I feel bad? Heck no. If I don't get a freaking day off, my family will all be able to visit me in the funny farm by years end.

This sounds like my house!! It's exhausting! I feel like I am always behind on something and it's usually NOT work related.

 

[mom2rtk]

Back in the day, my 'boomer' parents had a different life. My mom was a stay-at-home mom and took care of the house, all of the chores and us kids. My dad got home from work and was able to relax after work because my mom had taken care of everything else. Those were the days.

Today DH and I both work full time and have one son. I work all freaking day Monday thru Friday, attempt a short trip to the gym when I can, help DS with what he needs, feed the family at 6:30pm and sometimes if I'm lucky, I get 30 minutes at the end of my day to watch TV and play with the dogs. Saturday and Sunday we do grocery shopping, laundry, dry cleaners, Home Depot, Costco, house cleaning and yard work. My car is still dirty because I never can find time to wash it.

Vacation days are spent waiting for the DirecTV guy, the guy who fixes the AC, a sick day because my DS is sick, days when I am sick, doctor appointments for yearly check-ups, etc.... you know the drill. I reserve one week every year for Disney... which is hardly considered days of rest (but loads of fun).

Yeah, I'm staying home this Thanksgiving for the first time ever and I am not sorry at all. The 3 of us are sleeping in, wearing PJs all darn day and catching up on Blue Bloods. Do I feel bad? Heck no. If I don't get a freaking day off, my family will all be able to visit me in the funny farm by years end.

Yes. This. All of it.

Those who leave it out of the equation are just ignoring reality.

 

[powellrj]

I guess because I am a boomer, I read it differently than everyone. I will say I am a younger boomer and we didn't have the upbringing everyone keeps bringing up. My youngest is still a teenager and my next oldest DS is 24 so we have also had the busy lifestyle with both of us working full-time and traveling for our jobs and the kids in everything. We are a true sandwich family because we still had kids at home when I had to move in with my parents and quit my job. When it got to be too much for me they moved in with my brother and his family and his kids are younger than mine.

Dad is saying that they understand the hardships because they also had them. They are also saying that they are caring for their parents and its hard to leave them to travel. With kids you can take them with you, but that not always true for elderly parents.

He then says that their children and grandchildren don't make any effort to keep in touch with their older family members.

This was Amys answer that I found telling.

These parents promote a family structure where everything revolves around their kids.

I assume that when they’re older your grandchildren might see their own parents the way your adult children see you — as a “waste” of vacation time.

My advice to you is to accept the parameters and do what you want to do — but to do your best to love them, regardless. More than ever, young people need to spend time around older relatives.

I am so happy that my kids don't see their Grandparents as a waste of time to visit because even though my mom has no idea who they are, they are still building memories.

I didn't see any resentment or jealousy on the grandparents, more it was a sadness that their children and grandchildren don't have a relationship with older people.

Amy is saying that because the kids are seeing their parents thinking that the grandparents are a waste of time and money they will do the same thing when they have families.

 

[mom2rtk]

I get annoyed with discussions like this. We have ZERO idea what the relationship was over the years between the kids and parents involved in this story. Did the parents make them a priority or did the kids feel left out of family discussions? Did the parents make an effort to connect with them as kids or did they feel like an annoyance? Were the parents there for the kids when they started their own families and needed help with small kids? There is WAY more to this discussion than a few paragraphs can sum up. I'm quite sure the important stuff isn't in that letter.

And I'm sorry, but unless the grandparent penning that letter had a spouse who worked outside the home, they are completely skimming over the impact that can have on time availability in a family. That sort of makes me think they might not be very good at "hearing" what their grown child's concerns are.

 

[srferson]

I get annoyed with discussions like this. We have ZERO idea what the relationship was over the years between the kids and parents involved in this story. Did the parents make them a priority or did the kids feel left out of family discussions? Did the parents make an effort to connect with them as kids or did they feel like an annoyance? Were the parents there for the kids when they started their own families and needed help with small kids? There is WAY more to this discussion than a few paragraphs can sum up. I'm quite sure the important stuff isn't in that letter.

And I'm sorry, but unless the grandparent penning that letter had a spouse who worked outside the home, they are completely skimming over the impact that can have on time availability in a family. That sort of makes me think they might not be very good at "hearing" what their grown child's concerns are.

Not trying to be rude here, but I am confused.

Are you not okay with discussing the situation or are you okay with it? Because you just said you get annoyed with discussions like this. Then you joined in the discussion with your own thoughts about the situation.