Are you a creationist?

[Disney Doll]

Ad hominem attacks, very classy.

I don't have an issue with people subscribing to any particular mythology. What I do have an issue with is when they try to thinly veil their particular religious belief as a pseudoscientific theory in order to have it taught to children in public school.

It is a perfectly valid question to ask--if we are going to pass off Christian creation mythology as science in schools, should we not also teach the mythologies of other cultures and religions? They are every bit as scientifically valid, after all.

You call it an "ad hominem attack" (nice use of verbage, BTW ). I call it an observation, based on my experiences with most of the posts you make on religious threads, which I will not go through the laborious process of searching and linking here, so as to not belabor a point to which you clearly take offense.

I have a problem with people who insult other people's belief systems and imply that people who believe differently from them are imbeciles, which is what you generally do in most religious threads Pigeon, whether you choose to think you do or not. Please be very clear on the fact that I said imply, because when you respond, I don't want to see a post that says "Please link where I said that religious people are imbeciles". We are all smart enough to read "tone" in posts.

And FTR, I am pretty classy. You've just never met me so you'd have no way of knowing. And you clearly seem to assume that I am not, perhaps because I have religious beliefs.

Quite frankly, our education system can teach about whatever religious and mythological subjects they want...I think exposure to all kinds of thinking is refreshing and necessary to fight close-mindedness, which exists in people of ALL belief systems, even those who espouse to have NO belief system. I do recall learning about several different religions and the Greek and Roman myths in both my public and parochial schools (elementary, secondary and college...I had a pretty good mix of "exposure"), so I think it's actually being done...or at least it was being done in the 60's, 70's & early 80's...ooops! Gave away my age!

So as to not derail what has been an enlightening discussion for most of us who seemed to be fairly open-minded about learning about different folks' thoughts and opinions, I'll not respond to whatever else you choose to post about my religious beliefs or level of class. Since we clearly have divergent views on both subjects, further "discussion" seems pointless.

 

[bicker]

You call it an "ad hominem attack" (nice use of verbage, BTW ). I call it an observation, based on my experiences with most of the posts you make on religious threads

With respect, anytime anyone says anything about any member's tendencies, I consider it an ad hominem attack.

• There is talking about the topic.
• There is talking about a reply to the topic someone made.
• And then there are personal attacks.

The discussion, the forum, and indeed, all of humanity, would be better off if we stuck to the first couple of those.

I'm not saying I always do, but I do recognize that it is always better to do so.

 

[eliza61]

Haven't read the entire thread.

I'm a scientist by trade, so I'm an evolution type gal.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Really? Are you joking? I hope so, otherwise some serious problems are going on with education!

Evolution happens when a species needs to adapt to a changing environment, in that the organisms with the changes to survive are better able to pass on their genetic codes. Humans are at the point of controlling and maintaining their environment, suiting it to them instead of the other way around, so there is no evolution. That said, people are losing their teeth (less instances of wisdom teeth overall) and their toes (well, smaller toes) because we don't need them any more, what with cooking our food and using shoes.

In addition we are evolving, right before your eyes. I think that is something that is set aside or ignored.

Our systems are changing all the time with the introduction of viruses, etc...

Evolution is always occurring!!!!!

 

[Bobbysdog]

While there may be a few exceptions, I can't help but note that many of the posters on this thread who have sided with creationism have also been some of the most adamant defenders of the current presidential administration over the years. In fact, the percentage in the poll above is very close to the president's approval rating the last couple of years.

I find that similarity fascinating, and hardly a coincidence.

 

[rayelias]

I don't have an issue with people subscribing to any particular mythology. What I do have an issue with is when they try to thinly veil their particular religious belief as a pseudoscientific theory in order to have it taught to children in public school.

Like evolution?

There has been absolutely zero proof that any species has "turned into" another species at any time in history.

Most will agree that species can evolve (adapt), but drastically altering their DNA so they become a completely different species? Has not been proven.

And, for those who don't believe in "creationism" (intelligent design), please explain your scientific proof of how everything (or anything for that matter) could be created from nothing.

ETA: Perhaps I'm not completely understanding the OP's definition of "evolution" vs "creationism". I don't believe there are many people who will not agree that species can adapt over time to their surroundings. But, for a "fish" to turn into an "elephant" over a couple million years? I don't believe there has been any undeniable, absolute proof that something like that has ever happened. And, why can't there be some sort of intelligent design that allows for adaptation? Why does it have to be a choice of one or the other?

 

[myalterego]

Like evolution?

There has been absolutely zero proof that any species has "turned into" another species at any time in history.

Most will agree that species can evolve (adapt), but drastically altering their DNA so they become a completely different species? Has not been proven.

And, for those who don't believe in "creationism" (intelligent design), please explain your scientific proof of how everything (or anything for that matter) could be created from nothing.

ETA: Perhaps I'm not completely understanding the OP's definition of "evolution" vs "creationism". I don't believe there are many people who will not agree that species can adapt over time to their surroundings. But, for a "fish" to turn into an "elephant" over a couple million years? I don't believe there has been any undeniable, absolute proof that something like that has ever happened. And, why can't there be some sort of intelligent design that allows for adaptation? Why does it have to be a choice of one or the other?

Rayelias, I rest my case.

 

[lemondog]

I voted no. I believe the Adam and Eve story is representational of evolution...God created the seeds that eventually became man.

 

[luvsJack]

I don't understand why so many times in these topics, a few of those that do not believe in God and creation state their beliefs while belittling others. I don't recall anyone who believes in creation saying (or implying) that those that believe in evolution are idiots.

Most of us have said that we believe in God and creation but we also believe in evolution. All species must adapt to the world they live in at the time, that's a fact and the wonderus beauty of what God designed. I didn't realize that teaching either/or in schools was a part of the OP's question. Evolution and any other "how we got here" theory can be taught without stepping all over the relegious beliefs of others; and all of the "theories" should be covered.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

And, for those who don't believe in "creationism" (intelligent design), please explain your scientific proof of how everything (or anything for that matter) could be created from nothing.

Please explain your scientific proof of God.

How about Aliens? You know I can make a nice case for that, more than God or no God.

Proof will come....I am voting on the aliens myself.

If you guys teach creationism in school then in comes "Alien Theory".

There are no answers to these questions or maybe there are and we ignore it.

Astronauts have said they have seen things. We have stuff on video. And yet, we ignore it.

How about a real bonafide Alien commission? Just a thought.

 

[Disney Doll]

Please explain your scientific proof of God.

How about Aliens? You know I can make a nice case for that, more than God or no God.

Proof will come....I am voting on the aliens myself.

If you guys teach creationism in school then in comes "Alien Theory".

There are no answers to these questions or maybe there are and we ignore it.

Astronauts have said they have seen things. We have stuff on video. And yet, we ignore it.

How about a real bonafide Alien commission? Just a thought.

Actually, I do believe in aliens. Not necessarily as the spark that created the universe, but I don't think we are alone here. I just think we are such a bunch of screwballs that aliens don't want anything to do with us!

I'd support an Alien Commission.

And FTR... the ROTFL and LMAO smileys used during these discussions are the things that those of us who have religious beliefs find offensive.

I'm not ROTFL or LMAO about your alien belief. I'm actually supportive of it and willing to give it a go. So why would you find my beliefs so funny?

 

[The Mystery Machine]

And FTR... the ROTFL and LMAO smileys used during these discussions are the things that those of us who have religious beliefs find offensive.

I'm not ROTFL or LMAO about your alien belief. I'm actually supportive of it and willing to give it a go. So why would you find my beliefs so funny?

Sorry....

I am just in limbo over Christianity right now, maybe dumbfounded so I am having alot of trouble taking things seriously with it if that makes sense to you.

I will refrain from the smilies.

 

[Disney Doll]

With respect, anytime anyone says anything about any member's tendencies, I consider it an ad hominem attack.

• There is talking about the topic.
• There is talking about a reply to the topic someone made.
• And then there are personal attacks.

The discussion, the forum, and indeed, all of humanity, would be better off if we stuck to the first couple of those.

I'm not saying I always do, but I do recognize that it is always better to do so.

Well, I agree with you wholeheartedly on all your statements bicker. And they apply to ALL sides of an argument, and to ALL posters, not just the ones who happen to agree with your (that being the universal "your", not specifically you) or my line of thinking.

But I also believe in calling things as I see them, and I don't necessarily consider that an attack as much as I do an observation. People sometimes don't like to hear truths spoken in observations...myself included. But I do tend to try and "listen", even to those things that I don't want to hear. Heck, sometimes I even learn something.

I am quite ready to take the responsibility for what I post, good or bad, and I appreciate it when others do the same. I think the difficulties start when some posters feel they can post what they wish, but take offense to others who post in kind.

Have a fabulous day!!!!!

 

[Disney Doll]

Sorry....

I am just in limbo over Christianity right now, maybe dumbfounded so I am having alot of trouble taking things seriously with it if that makes sense to you.

I will refrain from the smilies.

I have been in that limbo you describe myself a few times over the years.

Tough spot to be in. I wish you well with your journey.

 

[Laura]

Like evolution?

There has been absolutely zero proof that any species has "turned into" another species at any time in history.

Most will agree that species can evolve (adapt), but drastically altering their DNA so they become a completely different species? Has not been proven.

BZZZZZ! You are incorrect.

http://www.pnas.org/content/103/9/3209.full.pdf+html
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/VSpeciation.shtml

 

[bicker]

But I also believe in calling things as I see them

Things, yes. People, no. "Calling" people is the third bullet in my list. "Calling" things are the first two bullets.

and I don't necessarily consider that an attack as much as I do an observation.

A great rule of thumb: When talking about people, the difference between an observation and an attack is whether or not the people you're talking about will appreciate your comment (observation) or not (attack). That's why those first two bullets are better than the third bullet.

People sometimes don't like to hear truths spoken in observations...myself included.

We're not talking about truths. We're talking about opinions.

 

[Momvic5]

Really? Are you joking? I hope so, otherwise some serious problems are going on with education!

Evolution happens when a species needs to adapt to a changing environment, in that the organisms with the changes to survive are better able to pass on their genetic codes. Humans are at the point of controlling and maintaining their environment, suiting it to them instead of the other way around, so there is no evolution. That said, people are losing their teeth (less instances of wisdom teeth overall) and their toes (well, smaller toes) because we don't need them any more, what with cooking our food and using shoes.

Nomi,

Humans are no more at the point of contolling and maintaining our environment than we were thousands of years ago. It is statements like this that push the idea of evolution over the top for me and ends the discussion.

Thank you for the all the articles that you have made available. I have to admit, I did not read them. The reason ~ the internet is full of misleading information. We all know that anyone can write an article, do a research, and claim observable facts and absolute truth. If you search hard enough you can find answers and evidence to almost anything you are looking or longing for. It is just a matter of who and what you decide to accept as truth.

My truth lies in the Bible. I know that my choice requires a giant leap of faith. I willingly accept and admit that. However, your belief in evolution isn't much different. You have made the choice to accept the truth as presented by others and even with all the unknowns and flaws surrounding it, you took a giant leap of faith towards it.

Just a note to the OP, I also believe God created dinosaurs.

 

[Wishing on a star]

One common and easily observed instance of evolution is the reason we need new flu shots every year, the flu virus evolves to become resistant to the old vaccine.
...
I can produce more links and instances if you need them. Hope this was helpful to clear your misconception!

Sorry, but a flu virus, is still a flu virus, is still a flu virus...
There are variations. adaptations and natural slection... However, I stand by my comments.

I repeat that there is no empirical evidence that ANY organism or species has ever been seen to evolve into another species.

I do not feel like I am the one under any misconceptions.

 

[bicker]

There is a very substantial contextual difference between believing the evidence of real-live-human eyes, interrogate-able today, and most importantly, reproducible today, and believing in scriptures. The former is appropriate for all matters public, while the latter is appropriate for all matters private.

 

[Momvic5]

There is a very substantial contextual difference between believing the evidence of real-live-human eyes, interrogate-able today, and most importantly, reproducible today, and believing in scriptures. The former is appropriate for all matters public, while the latter is appropriate for all matters private.

The evidence of evolution only proves to the real-live-eye that something that already exists is reproducible and can adapt. It proves nothing more. It does not prove that the world came into existence through living matter evolving or adapting. The public eye has yet to witness any such evidence that concludes that we are in existence due to the process of evolution. It is your "private" matter/logic/belief that ties the connection between human existence and the process of evolution.