Anyone in WC done DCL Med/Europe?

[silvergoldberry]

Hi Disabilities Board friends!

It's been a while since I posted, but once again another trip is in the works for my friend Jack. His last major trip was in May 09 and he's itchy to start planning something else.

He would like to try the Disney European cruise in the Med.

Has anyone with a power wheelchair tried this?
I spoke to reservations about the ports which was my first concern and there are two ports that aren't docked, but "tendered" which means he cannot go ashore there. (Villafranche & La Spezia) But he still wants to go, so I'm doing the planning and research.

Besides the limitations at certain ports, what else will we need to work around?

TIA!

 

[dclfun]

Most of Europe is not easy to get around in a power w/c- there are cobblestone streets, no curb cuts, and lots of steps. I know I'd love to visit the Med but I'm not about to attempt it ( same situation- power w/c) because I know I'd be frustrated. I am, however, going on the DCL Transatlantic cruise this September. This cruise has more days at sea and also a day in Tortola, St. Maarten, and Castaway Cay. I know I can at least get around a bit there, albeit there are no Port Adventures for me. Can Jack use a manual wheelchair? This might make things easier as you could do some wheelies to get him over curbs. You might want to check with SATH ( Society for Accessible Travel and Hospitality) as they should be able to help with information. You might also check the Cruise Critic message boards to see if anyone there has been, or the DCL forum here. ---Kathy

 

[silvergoldberry]

Thanks!
That's a couple of good leads to start looking at.

I also posted on the DCL boards here.

We can get him in a manual chair but he's really not comfortable for any length of time and I believe this trip is going to test his endurance to begin with. But you have me thinking it might be worth it for us to pack a small portable ramp we can use for curbs and small steps. We've done that before sometimes and there are several of us traveling with him.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

IMHO it's a make or break depending on own mindset. Europe is old -unlike a relatively very new US- and has a totally different mentality, social life, architecture, you name it.

Because of this, accessibility is viewed differently. If you come overhere with a US-mindframe and expecting ADA-like levels; you'll be in for a frustrating vacation! If you come over here after doing homework, up for a bit of a challenge, giggle and have a laissez-faire additude; the Med can definately be enjoyed very much with any accessibility aid.

Biggest things to be aware of are the love for cobblestones, many many curbs (incl. multiple layers), ooooooooooooooooooooooold tourist attractions and thus never possible to offer a 100% accessibility. Accessible tranportation can differ greatly, especially the amount of available accessible cabs. Depending per country, you'll encounter different things. Greece for instance tends to love high curbs. And I mean HIGH. Portugal and Spain are places you can run into places with a high threshold to get into.

DCL will be of no help with accessible tours. Heck, they aren't if you stay in the Caribbean with a powerchair. Having said that; there are some amazing things to do out there, on your own or organised through small companies. Google is a great help with this, as are stories of others that have done a specific port. Contact transportation companies beforehand, most of them will gladly help explain the options available. Same goes for many other companies.

With a bit of an adventurious mind, you can have a blast in the Med. Not all can be visited or accessed, but enough can. Not always as easily or smoothly as it is in the US, but it's not impossible for sure. Since I started using a mobility aid, I've done Portugal, Spain, Greece and Italy with manual and/or powerchair. Accessibility in the Med is a bit more of a hassle than it is in North-West Europe -where I live myself- but never really felt helt back.

Biggest thing is to have a 'can do'-additude. As soon as that shows, it can open so many doors. Not only if a company acts up or whatever but in the smallest things. I've been invited to peoples homes to come and enjoy dinner, perfect strangers. Talk about experiencing that country for REAL.

Natives of those countries tend to be very friendly and always willing to lend a helping hand where need be to help overcome any lack of or imperfection of accessibility. Added bonus; because not all is accessible, many companies/attractions in many places offer a discounted entry for folks with certain disabilities. Using your own wheelchair; enough proof right then and there.

Agree with Kathy about CC-boards. As far as curbs without curbcuts go; I find a "powerfull"* powerchair will be a lot easier than a manual chair. With the latter you'll need a bolt of power and it will be tiring quickly. With a powerfull powerchair it's basically very easy. Full power ahead in a perfect 90 degree angle and up you go. (as soon as you feel making that bump between front and backwheels; let go of the full power!). This is if you use a powerchair that has the big wheels in front. If it's the other side round; vice versa. I've dealt with curbs as high as 25 centimeters in that way many a times without ever having a problem. This experience can be made even more pleasurable on the powerchairuser if you tilt the seat before attacking the curb. Basically tilt in the refersed angle. This way not even a hint of feeling you might fall out of the chair. Leaving the curb? Straigth angle again; big wheels first, enough power, tilt chair if need be, and there you go. It's a breeze; seriously! If worried about this, you can practice at home.


* I put "powerfull" in as I did as my experience is that any regular powerchair IS powerfull enough. On the other hand since my USA trips, I've ran into some powerchairs online that look like they might have compensated on the power. I use a permobil C500sKB in every day life and it has never even had a hint of a problem with tackling curbs like this. I dare say that a powerchair that can handle the ramp upto the monorail at MK can handle tackling curbs of 20 cm's powerwise.

 

[dclfun]

I wish I could go over those curbs, and I'm quite daring! I also have a Permobil C500 but I also have a bolt underneath that locks my chair into an EZLock so I can drive my adapted van. That darned bolt catches on everything, even the thresholds on the ship. Thus it makes for some adventurous maneuvering, but do-able, at least onboard.---Kathy

 

[silvergoldberry]

Thanks so much!
I have registered on the Cruise Critic boards so I can post there, but I'm reading up on things first to get a feel for all this first. It's a great resource. (just like the DIS!) I believe we will be investigating setting up our own excursions anyway.

I have discussed your email with Jack and we talked about attitude and he's game. I've explained the lack of ADA. We're a group of between 9 & 11 people so he'll have plenty of extra hands to help out.

On our last trip in May 09, we visited the grave of Wild Bill Hickock in Deadwood, SD. It was a steep, gravely hill in the hill top cemetary, but Jack was determined. He's also tooled around a junkyard setting at a photo shoot last summer. He's not afraid of going "off road" or perhaps "off ramp" would be a better description.

He has a Permobil C300 and with a little push and a ramp (even if it's small and steep) we've managed to get him in and out of some places I thought would never work due to a high curb. There was a mention on the CC boards and elsewhere about someone who built a portable ramp from Styrofoam and duct tape to travel with. I may give this a try, the metal ones we use are bulky and heavy.

But I have a question about powering up & down small curbs without a ramp. The big wheels are in the front on Jack's chair, but he also has these little wheels in front of the big ones that I would suppose are to prevent the chair falling forward? They don't touch the ground, but will if the chair tilts forward too much or if he tries to go up a ramp that is too steep they hit and then the big wheels come off the ground and cannot move the chair forward. If I'm there when that happens, I give a big push up from the back. If I'm not there then he can't go up that ramp/curb.

In looking at the chair, they are just bolted on and of course there is a warning picture not to take them off. I guess it's a safety thing, but if it will help him with the trip, I'll get them taken off before we go. I just think it would be important to make sure that there are folks who help stabilize the chair as it goes up and down.

Anyway thanks again, I'm sure I'll be posting more.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

Kathy, for your flight to BCN; take a copy of the ACAA and perhaps also one of the EU legislation 'flying with a mobility disability' with you, as a bit of insurance. Most of the times it's not needed, but if anybody does decide to go "I don't know" you can nicely remind them of your rights. With you only landing at BCN it especially shouldn't be any problem, but still. I never get on a flight without a copy in my carry on. Be prepared to fall in love with Barca though, it's amazing.

Have you discussed the downsides of the EZ-lock with Permobil? Don't know about the US branche or anything, but over here most of the time they try to see if a solution can be found for both situations safely. Especially if some of the DCL bumps are already a "can do can't do", it might be worth asking around??

But I have a question about powering up & down small curbs without a ramp. The big wheels are in the front on Jack's chair, but he also has these little wheels in front of the big ones that I would suppose are to prevent the chair falling forward?

I know what you mean, got them on my C500 also.

They don't touch the ground, but will if the chair tilts forward too much or if he tries to go up a ramp that is too steep they hit and then the big wheels come off the ground and cannot move the chair forward. If I'm there when that happens, I give a big push up from the back. If I'm not there then he can't go up that ramp/curb.

Going to assume they're in the same position as mine. If they are, they shouldn't be a big problem. They look like they're in the way but in practice rarely are as long as you go full speed. But then again, at low speed it can be a problem to get up the curb anyway, with or without those little wheels.

In looking at the chair, they are just bolted on and of course there is a warning picture not to take them off.

Have you read the user manual? It's full of warnings of what not to do. Might give some teenager some great ideas. It is a safety thing indeed. I've actually have them safe the chair once. Not me, just the chair. Had a brand new C500, driving at full speed down the road. All of a sudden the programs had a malfunctioning in them, shutting the chair down. Not like we're used to and the chair rolling a bit further and then stopping, but the chair stopped on the dime right then and there. The chair tipped violently because of that sudden move and speed, the little wheels prevented it from tipping over. As I don't use a seatbelt, you'll have guessed by now I went flying. The back wheels were totalled by the power put on them when the chair fall back down, but the little wheels in front did safe the chair and myself from more damage.

I guess it's a safety thing, but if it will help him with the trip, I'll get them taken off before we go. I just think it would be important to make sure that there are folks who help stabilize the chair as it goes up and down.

Don't know about that, but haven't got experience with the C300. I personally do not like anybody around me when attacking a curb. It makes me too aware of them, thinking about their safety, not wanting too much speed for their safety etc. For me that results in too little speed to go up the curb. At full speed it can be a bit difficult, that combo of a moving chair and people around it. On the other hand, others swear by it. Might be something you'll want to try at home and see what works for you guys.


Oh and love DCL for the convenience of having the US outlets. Those darn Permobil chairs will not load when using the battery charger most of us get with it normally combined with a, sheez what do you call them in english? Those plugthings that can chance the plug from 3 pins to 2 etc. to be able to fit the outlet. (hoping somebody understands that!!!). The regular chargers can not handle the difference in voltage and hertz. Unlike most appliances nowadays, they also need a converter for the voltage and hertz. For us Europeans that means no charging while in the US, for you guys from the US it would mean running the risk of blowing up the charger. I learned that lesson the hard way. With a DCL-cruise; no need to even think about all of that for you. Just plug in and charge and you're set to go! Just remember not to plug in while ashore unless you checked and made sure the charger can handle 240 voltage and 60 hertz.

 

[silvergoldberry]

Thanks again!

Yes. The manual is quite entertaining. I'm sure it was written by lawyers. Especially the part that says not to sit in the chair when it is in a motor vehicle. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
So he drives it on a bus on his own, he can't stand or walk, but has to get out of it while the vehicle is moving. Not in this life.

We've booked for the Magic sailing May 28 for the 11 day Mediterranean Cruise. And the planning begins.

Thanks again so much for this board! I should check in more often.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

Congrats on booking! You guys will have a blast. Prepare for unpredictable weather, though. It can be anywhere between chilly and hot, dry and lots of rain, it'll be a real surprise in May. Oh and get yourself some paella while in Spain. The fish one is the best, but they do all kinds. Mjum!



That one indeed is funny. Esp. as they still put it in our manuals also. Nuts, considering in the Netherlands they crash test powerchairs. Yep, crash testing as in the same way they do for cars etc. Only those that pass the test get a label "OK-ed for usage while on transportation". Basically those also are the only ones supplied by many councils because of that reason. And one gues which is one of the brands and types that pass that crash test with flying colours? Sure enough; Permobil C-serie.

All legal talk. My chair has the same 'warning' on it, as I've got some ajustments done for it to fit my own needs. Those are very rare, so never been crash tested. But then again; they never test any chair with any extra ajustments, even those that are not so rare. On the up; our insurances DO cover any damage etc. while using the chair in transport, as it's "of great individual importance to use the aid". Only valid for the user though. Talk about legal talk!