Anyone had a fine for unauthorised absence at school?

[Disney Bint]

Our combined family income is just over £10,000 per year. We are in low paid jobs that only give us 14 days holiday a year, of which, we can only take between the months of october and november. We both came from families that were also in low paid jobs and therefore want to give our own children the opportunities and experiences that we never had as children. We work hard and save hard for 50 weeks of the year. Between the holiday companies, LEA's and the schools, us low paid parents don't stand a chance do we?



Disney Bint

 

[maureen4200040]

Hi Guys.

We're desperately planning a second trip. And we were thinking of going for the 2 weeks next Easter. But we are struggling BIG TIME cost-wise.

We can save a fortune by going 2 weeks in Feb (during the half-term), so our son (who is due to start secondary school in September) will miss 5 days schooling.

We took the children out of school for 2 weeks during our trip last October - which was authorised as they were both in junior school, and I was getting married, so the kids were coming whether we got fined or not!!!

But I live in Sutton, and have read a similar thread saying Sutton will fine if you take your secondary-school-age children out during term time.

Can anyone help me? Do you take Year 7 kids out of school? And were you fined?


Lorraine D

I would'nt worry too much about it. I'm taking my 12 yr old niece on 9 September 05, she only goes back to school for two days after the summer holidays, and then we're off to Orlando. She's at Middle School and the headmaster did'nt even bat an eyelid at the date we had - he told her to enjoy herself, because when she gets back there will have a lot of catching up to do with her school work. The price I got for our package was too good to miss.

 

[carolfoy]

Have had to speak to ds's school only this morning as although we are taking Cal out of school for WDW in nov for 2 weeks, we want to take him to the grand canyon, monument etc next April for 2 weeks and the days overlap him going back to school, his headteacher told me this morning she really didn't mind as long as he does one of his show and tells when he comes back! She said he rarely takes sick days and is well above his sats standard so she's quite happy for him to do this, I guess it just boils down to the individual school.

 

[LorraineH]

We also live in sutton.i took dd who is in year 10 and ds who is in year 8 both out of school last october for 10 days. both schools were fine.we plan to do the same october06.if we get a fine we will just have to pay it.

Candy - can I just ask what Secondary School in Sutton your kids go to?

Thanks again everyone for the replies. I know this argument always raises a few nerves.

I do believe some schools are more lenient, as they see a trip to the States as something worthwhile and of benefit to the children.

Other schools (most notably in Sutton) just want to slap on fines like parking tickets! I wouldnt worry too much if I was going to pay a £50 direct to the school. But apparently the £50 covers the cost of not going to court??

Can anyone work that one out??!!!



Lorraine D

 

[wendye]

My DS (he will be in year 11 from September) brought a letter home with him the other week saying that in Sheffield they are going to be enforcing these fines where the pupils attendance is below 80%. It also stated that the 10 day allowance was 'not a right' and was at the total discretion of the school, that provided the pupil's attendance was above the required 80% it would be looked at favourably but the application must have been made at least 2 weeks beforehand and no applications would be accepted for September.


Personally this isn't a problem for me because my DS finishes next year and we have only ever taken our two out for 1/2 a day at the beginning of December for a Christmas party weekend and one day when they were in Junior/Infant school and I got the dates wrong. I can however sympathise with those who either can't take school holidays or can't afford school holidays.

Disney Bint - Wow if you only have a combined family income of just over £10,000 how do you manage to get to WDW! We have an income of just over £30,000 and we are only just managing it and that's with constant saving for over a year! What's the secret - let us in on it

 

[Candy]

Hi LorraineH my son goes to Carshalton sports college and my daughter goes to Wallington high school for girls. i think making us pay a fine is just a way of making money as i have said already both my children were out of school for 10 days last year and both are doing fine at school.and i will do it again.

 

[LorraineH]

Hi LorraineH my son goes to Carshalton sports college and my daughter goes to Wallington high school for girls. i think making us pay a fine is just a way of making money as i have said already both my children were out of school for 10 days last year and both are doing fine at school.and i will do it again.

Hi again Candy - we chose Greenshaw as our first preference as we live at the bottom of Sutton but didnt get in due to distance! We also got turned down for Glenthorne, Overton Grange and Cheam! We tried later to get Anthony into Carshalton Boys only to be told it was full. We did however get offered last week Stanley Park As if!!!!

Anyway Greenshaw wont authorise holidays. We are in touch with The Beacon in Banstead and they have a home-school agreement which states "I will TRY not to take my child out of school during term time".

By deciding to book a fortnight in Feb and taking 5 days off school isnt exactly TRYING that hard though is it?!!!

I am surprised that Wallington Girls allow it. I thought all those schools were far too academic.

So it seems to be down to the individual school, not the individual LEA.

 

[Netty]

I'm sure the schools would not take these school trips during the school holidays though because of the cost and also it would take up one of the many holidays that teachers have, around about 12 weeks compared to my 14 days.

one of many holidays that teachers have obviously not doing anything but holidaying and enjoying themselves!! all the lesson plans reports etc must be done the night before school term starts....

 

[Candy]

Hi LorraineH in reply to your post.before we took the children out of school last year we were not sure if this was the right thing to do as we have never taken them out of school before.but i must say that a lot of girls take time of at my daughters school and the school are very good about it. my children dont take many sick days from school but i do know of a lot of parents who let their children take a day off just because they dont like the lessons that day.I would say take the time off and have the holiday what ever school they go to.

 

[Disney Bint]

If we had the option of going in the summer like everyone else we would, despite the cost, but we can't. Work only permits us to take our 2 weeks in october and november.

We bought our council house years ago and have nearly paid off our very low mortgage. With lots of sacrifices on our part, our children have got to experience things that we only dreamt of when we were their age.

The children that go on school trips, i.e, ski-ing, euro disney, are they asked to catch up on work that they have missed whilst away? Or is it just brushed under the carpet so to speak.

I am really sorry to rant and rave but it is really hard to get the point across when you feel that you are hitting a brick wall all of the time.

The discussion could go on forever and the holiday companies will still be collecting their profits.

Disney Bint

 

[Netty]

i took my kids to wdw for the last week of august 1st week of september.
at the time my daughter was going into year 7. we had a great holiday, but it did take her a couple of weeks to settle in school afterwards because the rest of the pupils had bonded and chosen who and where they wanted to sit, this was the only downside to it. do what you think is right for you and yours, if its cheaper for you to go in term time and only miss afew days then go for it , your kids are only kids once and they soon grow up.

 

[Miffy2003]

The question was, did you get fined for taking your children out of school? I took mine out for 9 days at the end of Autumn term last year and did not. Having said that, we hadn;t done it before and I really can;t see us doing it again.

I fully support schools taking children away on holidays in term time and bless the teachers for being with the children 24/7. I am not a teacher incidentally


Whether you are comfortable taking your children out of school is a very personal decision and I would respect anyone for wanting (or not wanting) to do this

 

[matty624]

The children that go on school trips, i.e, ski-ing, euro disney, are they asked to catch up on work that they have missed whilst away? Or is it just brushed under the carpet so to speak.

Disney Bint

Why Disney Bint? Why? Why complain about teachers giving up their time to take children on trips and experience the magic of Disney, or the challenge of doing things they would never usually get to do? No, we do not make children catch up! My last trip to DLP was after the Christmas performances, which I organised, and took place when they would have been making Christmas cards etc, during the last 4 days of the Autumn term. A big difference between then, and the middle of a term (or heaven forbid the beginning), when the children are in full flow. Having said that, I still think (as a teacher), if your children are above average, working hard, and you feel the advantages out weigh the possible disadvantages, go ahead and risk fines. I would! But only for a week of so, not 2+.
Thank you Miffy2003, I'm glad some people feel like that. In this age of litigation, the enormous risk assessments we have to fill in, even visiting nearby places, are ridiculous. In fact, many teachers and especially headteachers, are unwilling to let trips take place. For our DLP trip last December, I was so paranoid and worried something might go wrong, other staff who came along, complained I was treating like a military operation! Even now, they keep quoting me, "the first hour of the day is the best!" I've probably been to WDW too many times for those wussy Disney virgins!
Ian

 

[dalymum]

always a hot potato this one - but I have had the same problem and even had visit from the absence board as there were alot of errors in my daughters attendance record. Her holiday in Spetember to Florida last year was authorised and it had been put on the records as unauth, they had put an exclusion on there (wrong) and 3 spells that didnt happen. On top of that my father in law died and she had a few days off with genuine sick as well. Despite them amending their records, they would not withdraw the 'warning'. despite this we are going again this year although the first week is in the holidays. It's not just the prices that are ridiculous in the holdays, the crowds are as well. I know it's not ideal but she will be 16 next year and then we dont have the problem any more.
She didnt suffer and learned far more than she would have done. It was her first trip abroad ever.

 

[Disney Bint]

I am not having a go at teachers but the system itself.My point being that the schools take the kids on these week long trips and say nothing about the work that has been missed in other lessons, especially in senior schools.

I think teachers do an amazing job and have the patience of saints, but the principle is still there. Can these children who go away on week long school trips catch up too?

All i was asking for last year was 2 weeks at the end of november and i was threatened with my child losing his place at the school where all of his mates were. Apparently, the warning we were given was for "the people who take their kids out for 6 weeks at a time". This annoyed me as my children haven't had any days off sick for the last four years. They are both above average and will take their gcse's early. There are others in their classes who take time off at the drop of a hat and are not even warned.

Disney Bint

 

[Mrs Dazzle]

I think teachers do an amazing job and have the patience of saints, but the principle is still there. Can these children who go away on week long school trips catch up too?

All i was asking for last year was 2 weeks at the end of november and i was threatened with my child losing his place at the school where all of his mates were. Apparently, the warning we were given was for "the people who take their kids out for 6 weeks at a time". This annoyed me as my children haven't had any days off sick for the last four years. They are both above average and will take their gcse's early. There are others in their classes who take time off at the drop of a hat and are not even warned.

Disney Bint

Disney Bint - to answer the first bit, from the "outside" (ie non-school workers) it probably does look like it's one long jolly - both for the kids and the teachers. However, these trips are normally part of their curriculum studies - ie field trips for geography, history, PSHE&C . . . although not quite sure where DLP would come in - maybe the history of Walt Disney or French They don't need to catch up since this is part of their school work, and having a good time too. These trips are planned months (sometimes years) in advance.

With regards your second comment, I absolutely agree with you. This is an excellent example of how the minority (ie those people who think nothing of taking their child out of school for whatever reason) are ruining it for the majority. We had one recently where the parents took their child out of our school for THREE days to 'buy a new puppy' - she was a struggling Yr 6 the week before her SATS , the type who don't even bother to ring in when their child is off sick - and those who think it's 'ok' to take their children off on holiday without even informing the school, just send in a letter when they return to say oh and by the way Little Jimmy's not been in for the last week or two because we took him on holiday Incredible. Children go to school to get an education, to make friends and (hopefully!) to enjoy it. To take a child out of school like the dog-buying example above is just plain selfish by the parents, no thought of their child at all.

Attendance figures are looked at not only in school, but also by your LEA. If the school aren't seen to be doing something about it (and they blooming well should), then the LEA will get involved.

Each headteacher can agree to a maximum of 10 'authorised' absences each year. This does not include sick days, we don't limit children to only 10 days sick each year . But it is at the discretion of each headteacher - and it's their views (in conjunction with the governor's) as to whether they "allow" time off school.

My friend wanted to go to Florida for the first time this summer, took one look at the prices end of August beginning of September and decided they would go then. This meant her 4.5 year old would have missed the first week of term, his first in infant school Friendship groups are made during this time, so when he went to school on retunr from holiday he would not have felt close to anyone and bless him, he's a nervous little chappy at the best of times. My heart broke for him, the parents had not even given any consideration to him, just saw cheaper prices. It's a balancing act - life is a flipping balancing act - but surely children come first?

Up until the last two years, we had always taken DD out during term time for a week while she was at primary school (to coincide with a half term); I ALWAYS checked with her teacher before even booking the holiday. My view was her teacher, ie the one who knows her, should give the ok (this is before the LEA authorisation forms came in mind you) and like you we are blessed with a very intelligent child. Each of her teacher's always said not a problem, she won't need to catch up cos she's ahead already, it was always around a holiday so they were winding down any way and some of the places we have visited (especially the caribbean, Hong Kong and the Philippines to day with my brother and his family) have been very educational - "real life" experience, rather than reading about these places in a book.

 

[Candy]

I think we as parents are made to feel bad if we take our children out of school for two weeks for a family holiday why? because the school wants to look good on paper so more children apply for their school. schools should cut down the summer holidays to four weeks and add the extra weeks to the may and october holidays. the schools say this would take to much planning.i think until the schools can sort it out they should let all children take up to the 10 days holiday out of school and stop giving us parents a hard time. and look more towards the children that take the odd days of all through the school year. i never let my children take a day off because they dont like one of their lessons but i know a lot of parents that do.

 

[florida sun]

At the end of the day, it is up to each individual parent. I took my daughter out of primary school for 10 days once to go to Florida.

Now she is is High School, I have never taken her out for holidays. She is now at a very important time with her mock exams coming up and studying really hard. And I know how much work she brings home from school on a weekly basis, and that would have to be caught up with.


Our school will not give authorised absence at all for holidays in term time, not 10 days, not 1 day.

I thank god that the school organises school trips, and thank each one of the teachers who take the time to give my daughter an oppertunity to visit places she might not see otherwise. All of her school trips have been based on part of her course work. Last year she went to Germany with school for 5 days on a language course, yes they had 1 day in a German Theme Park, but is'nt school outings all about fun as well as education.

Next week as part of her photography class they are off to France,3 days photographing the beautiful seaside town of La Touquet and 1 Day having fun at a outdoor pursuits centre.

I always try to book my holidays for the last 2 weeks in August when crowds and prices do drop if only by a little.

Sue

 

[kev kendall]

I'm a teacher in Lancashire. We've never fined anyone for taking holidays. We are allowed to authorise ten school days a year for family holidays. All other days are un-authorised and appear in records etc. I don't see a problem, but overall attendance figures mix into the equation of whether a school is successful or not, and can be a trigger for inspections etc. For some reason, the government think that schools where the children are in 100% are more sucessful that those who have children who take absences during term time. I wish that I could take time off, but I'd have to take leave of absence and not get paid. We authorise ten days for all children who request it, but have been told by our LEA to expect OFSTED becuase our attendence is triggering it!!!

 

[bj-sailaway]

LorraineH, I am from Sutton too. Have just fought an appeal for St Philomena's for a friends daughter, she already has 4 girls there and the 5th was turned down!!! Lovely family too. Anyway, if you haven't already had your appeal, buy the book "How to win your School Appeal, by Ben Rooney" It's definitely what won our case for us.

Also, it may have been me who wrote in the previous thread, a pal with kids at Overton was a day late back to start school, it went as unauthorised and the council fined her £50 per girl - £100 for 1 day. The joke is, they work it like parking fines, you get it for £50 if you pay on time, or £80 (I think it was) if you pay late.

The system isn't for those that bunk off, it's for the parents they think they'll squeeze the money out of. It absolutely stinks. However, I do know that some schools are sympathetic to the holiday problem. NOT St Phils or Overton though!

Which school are you fighting for?