Any vets or expirence with pregnant dogs?

My advice for anyone considering breeding their dog... please volunteer at an animal shelter for a time. Then you will see all of the beautiful animals, both purebred and mutts, that are living there day after day.
I volunteered at a shelter for over 10 years, and finally had to quit because I just got burned out. "Do you have any labs?" would be a phone call we would receive. This isn't "go fish"!! And don't even get me started on the influx of dalmations we received after "101 Dalmatians" came out. People get these cute puppies, then decide they are too much trouble, etc.
I have three mutts, and I love them more than anything. It was my choice for mutts, as I don't believe most purebreds are very healthy anymore.

All animal owners will agree that ownership is a life-long committment. Unfortunately, many others do not feel that way and that's why our shelters are over-burdened.
 
Lets see another pic of Charley, shall we? :laughing:

th_IMG_0904.jpg

You totally crack me up.:rotfl2:
Charley is a gorgeous dog btw. Not that you need ME to tell you that :)


Seriously, people breed dogs daily with no more reason that they want a litter, or want to make a bit of $ or think their dog is the greatest thing since sliced bread. THe OP wasn't asking for our opinions on breeding, she/he was asking for a bit of help.

I hope your dog and puppy are doing ok.

Thanks for those of you the responded thoughtfully to answer some questions to those of us that asked about what we should do before breeding. It is nice to have some info for those of us that did not know.
 
FWIW: Here are some of the minimal tests that should be done before you decide to breed:

Hips - Your ***** will need her hips and elbows x-rayed and registered with the OFA or the Orthopedic Foundation of Animals. The dogs are put under mild sedation and x-rays of the hips and elbows are taken and evaulated by the OFA. Your dog is then graded. A breeding ***** should have good or excellent.

Cost: minimum of $150.00

2)CERF - this is where a board certified veterinary opthomologist certifies that there are no hereditary defects.

Cost: $30.00 to register + the cost of the exam by the opthomologist

3) Heart: You will need to have your dog examined by a board certified veterinary cardiologist to make sure there are no heart abnormalities that you might pass on.

cost: Minimum of $100.00

4) Thyroid function. You need to run a complete thyroid panel to make sure there are no issues.

cost: About $75.00 + vet exam

5) Brucellosis - you need to run this test to see if either your dog or the sire is carrying any sexually transmitted diseases.

cost: About $75.00. can be done at the same exam as #4 - so only one exam charge for 4 & 5.

6) Sebaceous Adenitis - a hereditary skin disease that is seen mostly in standard poodles. It is a problem and you DO NOT want to breed anything with Standard Poodle in it that has this or has it in its pedigree.

7) Von Willebrand's disease (vWD) - another hereditary disease seen in poodles that you do not want to pass on.

8) Look in the pedigree to see if there is any:
bloat
Juvenile renal disease (seen in standard poodles)
Addison's disease.

Most of the above problems for poodles can also be ruled out for goldens during the same visits. But specifically on the golden side you need to either test or research the pedigrees for:

9) allergies (because of over breeding - severe allergies are being seen more and more in Goldens)

10) epilepsy

11) Osteosarcoma & other cancers. Cancer is currently the leading death of Goldens. You need to research the pedigrees thoroughly and make sure there is not a history of cancers that you are going to pass on to your puppies.

So, as you can see, you have about $1,000 worth of testing to do and a ton of research before you can even determine whether Cindy is a good candidate to be bred.

That puppy from petfinders is beginning to sound better and better, isn't it? :)

Excellent post, and exactly the things I was refering to in my first soapbox stand. Even those MINIMUM tests and precautions take a lot of time, learning, study, and perseverence. Breeding is NOT for the meek of heart OR pocketbook.

As a buyer be sure you ask the breeder of the pup you are looking at to clarify if all these things have been done. If not....walk away and find one who can. You will be money ahead to get the right dog the first time.
 
And again, I will stress - are you prepared to lose your wonderful dog? This is a very real option. Breeding is difficult on the mother. Dogs are lost everyday, even by extremely knowledgeable breeders that have had the best of vet care throughout the pregnancy.

This was a very real consideration for us.

I have a finished champion Komondor. She comes from breeders who are both AKC judges and breeders for over 30 years. Her father is a BIS (best in show) winner, a multi-time specialty winner and a multiple group winner. I know my breeders know every single dog in her pedigree for generations, even the dogs from Hungary. They have travelled to Hungary several times to research their bloodlines.

She is a great representative of the breed. She has the proper Komondor temperament. She has great conformation. By every test, she was a fantastic candidate to be bred.

She was approved to be bred to the Westminster Kennel Club winner and the hottest dog in our breed. Our breeder did all the research to see if it would be a good match.

But I couldn't do it. As much as I would have loved a puppy out of her, she is my 'heart' dog and I could not take the risk that she might die during whelping. It is not common, but it does happen. I could not take that risk.
 


This is not a flame. This is just plain fact. No matter what you choose to call it, your dog is a mutt. It is a mix of a Golden Retriever and a Poodle. Somebody just slapped a fancy name on it in order to get more money from people.

Your dog is not any more of a "breed" than any of the mixes you will find in any of the shelters.

This post got me wondering. What does it take to make a dog a "breed" rather than a mutt? I don't meant to start a debate, I'm just honestly curious how it happens. This combinations of breeds seems to be pretty popular, so at what point will the AKC (or whoever) make this an official breed? Are there certain criteria that the dogs have to meet in order to be accepted as a breed?

Oh, and I thought a "doodle" was short for Labradoodle, a combination of a labradore and a poodle. Is that different from a Goldendoodle?

Again, I'm not meaning to start any trouble, I'm just a curious mind.
 
WHY do I read these threads...
I so agree, I'd almost rather shoot myself in the head. How can we think that a person who can not even recognize that she has an INTACT male dog in the house, who plans to breed again, would listen to anything that more knowledgeable people would tell her on this board.
I work at a Vet's office, I've been involved in rescue for over 20 years, these people just DO NOT GET IT.
I'd like to invite them all to a euthanasia party with me, where we can see these darling little puppies breathe their last breaths, because no one wants them....no they probably wouldn't even get it then.
 
This post got me wondering. What does it take to make a dog a "breed" rather than a mutt? I don't meant to start a debate, I'm just honestly curious how it happens. This combinations of breeds seems to be pretty popular, so at what point will the AKC (or whoever) make this an official breed? Are there certain criteria that the dogs have to meet in order to be accepted as a breed?

Oh, and I thought a "doodle" was short for Labradoodle, a combination of a labradore and a poodle. Is that different from a Goldendoodle?

Again, I'm not meaning to start any trouble, I'm just a curious mind.

Doodle can refer to either a Labradoodle, which as you said is a mix of a Labrador Retreiver and Standard Poodle, or a Goldendoodle, which is a mix of a Golden Retreiver and Standard Poodle.
 


This post got me wondering. What does it take to make a dog a "breed" rather than a mutt? I don't meant to start a debate, I'm just honestly curious how it happens. This combinations of breeds seems to be pretty popular, so at what point will the AKC (or whoever) make this an official breed? Are there certain criteria that the dogs have to meet in order to be accepted as a breed?

Oh, and I thought a "doodle" was short for Labradoodle, a combination of a labradore and a poodle. Is that different from a Goldendoodle?

Again, I'm not meaning to start any trouble, I'm just a curious mind.

That is actually a very good question.

Nobody denies the fact that many of our current breeds are some sort of mix of older breeds.

The making of a breed usually entails:
1) Deciding what you want to accomplish with your new breed.
2) closing the gene pool down. This means you select a number of dogs that have very specific traits you want to breed for. This is the gene pool you are going to start your new breed from. Of course, say in generation 5, you decide you need a bit more of this or that, you can introduce another breed, but always, it is bred to the original gene pool.
3) You breed this gene pool. You breed for the dominant and recessive genetic traits you want. You select the dogs of each generation that matches the most closely to your vision of your breed. You cull the others. Culling in the past was actually killing any puppies that did not meet your criteria. Now and a bit more humane, spaying and neutering before they leave the breeder and go into pet homes would be more acceptable.

4) Careful records have to be kept.
5) You keep breeding each successive generation/culling/breeding/culling until you get uniform dogs that breed pretty close to the standard you have devised each time. In other words, you are going to get a German shepherd each time.
6) Did I say careful records have to be kept? Not only do you need to record the physical traits you are breeding for, but also the temperament traits. Often breeds were developed for very specific purposes - guarding, a very specialized hunting dog, etc. This is why your labrador has a soft mouth (carrying fowl), has an oily coat (water), and a thick, strong tail (rudder in the water) and an insatiable zest to retrieve. It is quite involved and complicated to keep breeding for numerous traits.

AKC will not accept a breed until copious records for generations can be proven and it can be proven that the dog is now a breed, breeds true to itself, and not just a mix of dogs.

There are plenty of "doodles or oodles" out there. There are labradoodles (labrador x poodle), goldendoodles (golden retriever x poodle). The oodle is just reflecting that the dog has been mixed with a poodle.

The difference between the designer dogs and true breeding for a breed is that there are not any strict breeding controls being implemented that are necessary to create a breed. Some have set up different registries, but this is just recording what is being bred to what. There is no real breed control happening. The key phrase to creating or changing a current breed is "selective" breeding. You select, you breed. Although they do make wonderful dogs, it is just the latest fad. There is no selective breeding nor any strict controls for this selective breeding happening. That is why, the cockapoo, the very first designer dog, still has not achieved breed status.
 
As the others have stated breeding dogs is expensive and time consuming. Also if you are not going to breed her SPAY her. If you do not spay your dog, the risk of cancer increases.
 
Here is a great article from the AKC site that kind of explains how breeders influence the gene pool with both outside choices and within their own gene pool:

The Evolution of Breeds
By Cindy Vogels

There are times when it makes sense for a breeder to stamp more than just a "thumbprint" of influence on a breed.

Dogs are generally thought to have descended from wolves. Kim Campbell Thornton's recent article "Looking Back to the Beginning" (AKC GAZETTE, September 1999) describes research that has determined, through DNA sequences, that the dog breeds of today descended from only a few familiar ancestors. Although Thornton notes the difficulty in accurately dating the exact emergence of specific breeds, it is apparent that over thousands of years, man has created hundreds of breeds from a small gene pool of original dogs. While some breeds - examples include Greyhounds, Basenjis, Mastiffs and Norwegian Elkhounds - can be traced back to ancient times, most breeds have evolved over the last few hundred years, and many are still undergoing significant changes.

My last column proposed that to preserve the essence of their breeds, breeders should strive to stamp only a thumbprint of influence. Nevertheless, there are many instances when breeders have intentionally left more than a thumbprint. Such intervention, which can be the result of either crossbreeding or selective breeding within the breed's own gene pool, can bring about changes in breed type, causing breeds to evolve or even creating entirely new breeds.

New Breeds
In many cases, new breeds have been based solely on physical characteristics. For instance, there was once a variety of medium-size terriers in Ireland whose color ranged from blonde to red to blue, and whose coats varied from wiry to silky, wavy, straight or curly. Gradually, three breeds evolved: the Irish, Kerry Blue and Soft Coated Wheaten terriers. Although structural differences now exist among the three breeds, they are mainly differentiated by variations in coat and color.

Other breeds have been created based on working characteristics. The Bulldog's unique structure offered stability, as well as tenacity, making it an attractive breed to cross to others. The Bullmastiff and the Bull Terrier are just two examples in which Bulldogs were used in the creation of new, "better-working" breeds.

Health issues have also prompted crossbreeding. Historically, many breeds have been infused with others to promote heartiness. Fairly recently, though, there was a controversial breeding of Pointers into Dalmatians. Pointers had figured into the original makeup of Dalmatians, and it was thought that a new infusion of Pointer blood could help alleviate health problems without wreaking havoc on Dalmatian breed type. After a complex series of events, the membership of the Dalmatian Club of America voted to reject the experiment. However, if carefully thought out, similar projects might help to ensure the continuation of breeds suffering from health problems.

Selective breeding within a gene pool can result in more subtle types of breed evolution, which, over time, can bring about significant changes in breed type. In fact, there are few breeds that have not undergone this type of evolution. Through selective breeding, innovative breeders are constantly striving to make their dogs more attractive, and it would appear that the younger the breed, the more it changes. Although evidence suggests some older breeds like Greyhounds have remained virtually unchanged, a breed like the Doberman Pinscher, while remaining true to its original purpose, has been transformed into an elegant, glamorous breed of outstanding character in a relatively short time. The evolution of the English Cocker Spaniel to the American Cocker Spaniel is a prime example of such changes actually creating a new breed.

Some breed types change due to breeders' concentration on working abilities within a given gene pool. This is particularly evident in the sporting breeds, where field breeders and bench breeders have created distinctly different animals. Brittanys are the most notable exception; because their conformation standard stresses the importance of working characteristics, it is not surprising that Brittanys account for the greatest number of champions among sporting breeds. We can only hope that in the future, through selective breeding, the dichotomy between working and bench types can be diminished.

Of course, conscientious breeders have always incorporated robust individuals into their breeding programs. Today, however, we have many technological tools to help screen the health of breeding stock. Genetic screening has led to the exclusion of certain individuals from breeding programs, which can cause gene pools to narrow. Breeders will need to be careful to ensure that their efforts to create healthier dogs do not produce significant changes in type.

An in-depth discussion of the impact of imports on a breed can be found in my August 1997 AKC GAZETTE feature, "Introducing Imports." Basenjis are a dramatic example of what can occur when the genes of imported dogs are used for health reasons. A new color of Basenjis appeared when African bush dogs were incorporated into the gene pool to help eradicate health problems. This is probably just the first of many such evolutionary changes for the breeds affected by health problems.

In most breeds we have reached a point where type is firmly established and only a thumbprint of influence should be left by any one breeder. However, in instances where working characteristics have divided a breed, or where health problems threaten the very existence of a breed, breeders have rightly exerted more influence for the good of their dogs.

Cindy Vogels is a breeder-judge from Littleton, Colo. She has bred Soft Coated Wheaten Terriers, Kerry Blue Terriers, Welsh Terriers and other breeds for almost 30 years, and judges 18 terrier breeds.

http://www.akc.org/breeders/resp_breeding/Articles/evolutionofbreeds.cfm
 
My previous post was a bit harsh, I apologise.
I would like to share with you my experience. About 25 years ago, I purchased a puppy from a "backyard" breeder. She was the love of my life. I took her through obedience training, competed in AKC obedience trials, got her CD title, and really got into the whole dog showing and breeding world. At one time I was elected president of our local kennel club. My dog could not be shown in the conformation ring,(the beauty contest) as her ears were not cropped, a requirement for the breed at that time, but I took her to a highly respected professional handler, along with her pedigree, to have her evaluated for breeding. He found some stuff he liked in her pedigree, liked her looks, and we ended up breeding to the dog who won BOS at Westminster that year. He had also won 12 Best in Shows that same year.
We did everything right, the right food, constant prenatal care, everything. The puppies were all spoken for before they ever hit the ground.
Oops, she had to have a c-section, some of the buyers backed out, she was 2 years old when we bred her, and at about 3 years old she developed some very bad skin allergies, which, unfortunately, some of her pups inherited.
The whole experience cost me a couple of thousand dollars.
I was one of those crazy breeders who offered a lifetime guarantee, and ended up with two of the litter living with me until they died of old age.
Think twice before you breed, unless you really don't give a s*** what happens to the puppies you bring into the world.
 
My advice for anyone considering breeding their dog... please volunteer at an animal shelter for a time. Then you will see all of the beautiful animals, both purebred and mutts, that are living there day after day.
I volunteered at a shelter for over 10 years, and finally had to quit because I just got burned out. "Do you have any labs?" would be a phone call we would receive. This isn't "go fish"!! And don't even get me started on the influx of dalmations we received after "101 Dalmatians" came out. People get these cute puppies, then decide they are too much trouble, etc.
I have three mutts, and I love them more than anything. It was my choice for mutts, as I don't believe most purebreds are very healthy anymore.

All animal owners will agree that ownership is a life-long committment. Unfortunately, many others do not feel that way and that's why our shelters are over-burdened.


I guess this thread has a lot of topics now...

I am glad the OP's puppy and dog are OK...I do want to encourage you OP to Spay the dog though.

Dee and Greg~ the only comment I think is a little unfair is the lab question. We wanted a family dog so when we researched different breeds we did look for labs or lab mixes on petfinder. I don't see this as a negative. We wanted a dog that would be happy in our active family so we were kinda fishing for the right one.

However~we found out that black labs are the last choice for people looking for labs and we adopted a black lab mix last week.

Oh~my adoption contract FORBIDS me to breed her and they have the right to take her from me if they found out we did:eek: even if it was a mistake!

It is very sad to think of the animals neglected in shelters...at least people with big hearts have started to foster the animals in their homes to give them a better life and a chance to be adopted.

I think about 25% of dogs are purebreds in shelters and lots of mixes that just want a home.

It's a sad fact that the shelters are over-burdened with animals:mad:
 
To answer some questions.

1 the reason i didn't know he wasn't neutered was i never had a male dog and didn't know what to look for. I was told he was fixed I belieed it.

2. Even though she had one puppy does not mean there is anything wrong she is a small dog and it happens. though not very often but happens.

3. Puppy is doing fine and bigger then average since it was just him.

4. Dad is a Brussels Griffin

5. I would hae been fine with prenatal care and the cats emergency vet bill except 10 days after the breeding took place my husband was laid off and still to this day without a job.
 
I volunteered at a shelter for over 10 years, and finally had to quit because I just got burned out. "Do you have any labs?" would be a phone call we would receive. This isn't "go fish"!!

But also people should not be penalized for calling and asking right?

We would like two labs...not mixes but labs - and pups at that....should be be thought less of because the shelter cannot provide this? Should we just adopt something we are not looking for just because?
 
To answer some questions.

1 the reason i didn't know he wasn't neutered was i never had a male dog and didn't know what to look for. I was told he was fixed I belieed it.

2. Even though she had one puppy does not mean there is anything wrong she is a small dog and it happens. though not very often but happens.

3. Puppy is doing fine and bigger then average since it was just him.

4. Dad is a Brussels Griffin

5. I would hae been fine with prenatal care and the cats emergency vet bill except 10 days after the breeding took place my husband was laid off and still to this day without a job.
That will be an interesting mix :goodvibes

Brussels Griffon
T043376A.jpg
1165527954_6926.jpg


and a Lhasa Apso
lhasa_apso.jpg


You will have to post pictures.

But PLEASE, consider spaying and neutering your dogs. If you cannot tell a neutered male and do not know when a ***** is in heat, then you need to spend more time learning about dogs before you should be breeding.
 
There are plenty of "doodles or oodles" out there. There are labradoodles (labrador x poodle), goldendoodles (golden retriever x poodle). The oodle is just reflecting that the dog has been mixed with a poodle.
With the poodle being the most important part ;).

Miss Darci Dog:

Darci2.jpg
 
:confused: How could you not tell he was still intact?
Some people assume dogs with retained testicles have already been neutered. It is actually a pretty common thing for people who don't know alot about dogs. Maybe the person who gave her the other dog found him, saw no testicles and assumed he was neutered.
 

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