Any Christians out there that are not allowing their children to Trick/Treat?

[Buckalew11]

Originally posted by WebmasterAlex
That's what has me so confused about this thread.
Nobody said "you shouldn't celebrate halloween"
It was all about peoples personal choices.
I don't understand why people need to post such venomous replies about someone's personal choice that doesn't hurt anyone and doesn't affect anyone.
I guess it just makes some people feel superior to pick people apart.

Superior? Maybe. I'm betting they're "holier than me".
It is ashame that such an issue can't be discussed w/o people getting all worked up. No one has said, "don't do it or else." Oh well, and Palm Tree Girl--SMART decision!

 

[WeluvDisney2]

Originally posted by Geoff_M

So let's be consistent people, if T-n-T's out, then so's chocolate bunnies and Christmas presents.

You can flame me if you want, but here are my beliefs:

We celebrate Easter with Easter Eggs and Bunnies because they symbolize new life. An egg holds a new life and everyone knows how fertile bunnies are! Spring flowers blooming and alive again after the long winter. Just as Jesus was resurrected and alive again after his death on the cross.

We celebrate Christmas by giving each other gifts because the birth of Jesus (our savior) was the greatest gift that God has ever given mankind.

I do not think it is right to criticize people for not allowing their children to trick or treat. If they do not feel comfortable with it, then they should not do it.
I doubt anyone would criticize a Jewish person for not allowing their child to celebrate Christmas.
I also find it interesting that the people doing the criticizing are the ones who think we should accept everyone else for their differences.

 

[stevenpensacola]

www.internetmonk.com

Remember all the fun YOU had as a kid? One day God is going to ask you why your kids didn't have fun on October 31? Why you went door to door getting candy, dressed like a Pickle or a monster, and it was so exciting you couldn't wait for it. You prepared for weeks. You went to parties. Your public school went all out. There were contests and pumpkins everywhere. Ghosts and witches and goblins....all pretend, all fun, all a great part of childhood. What awesome memories! But whoa to the Christian with a pumpkin on the porch this Oct 31. Who knows what evil influences are being invited into the home of a person who is daring to play with Druid and Celtic witchcraft in all its dark forms and powers.

Blah blah blah.

My church went all out! We had haunted houses and haunted hayrides and scary movies. This was the fundy church that wouldn't less us do anything normal! But we could have Halloween. Of course, this was all before Mike Warnke told us we were a bunch of ritual Satanists, and just didn't know it. We had so much fun as kids. Admit it. We had a blast. I dressed up like a scarecrow every year. It was great. Can't do it anymore, though. Can't even show Don Knotts in "The Ghost and Mr. Chicken." God only knows what demonic forces that might unleash.

And now your kids are stuck at church (again), dressed as Bible characters (again), pretending to enjoy themselves (again) as you act out the book of Ruth. How could you do this? How could you believe all this nonsense? How could you buy what has to be the greatest collection of urban legends ever foisted upon a group of people? What kind of person suddenly believes that a simple American tradition is a boiling pot of Satanic ritual, and that we must hide and say our prayers, or at the least go to the church and have some deacon dressed like Martin Luther read the 95 Theses to us?

I vote for a full-blown return to Halloween as a great American Holiday where we dress up, have fun, make light of the dark side, and assert the victory of Jesus by simply enjoying ourselves. I want children to have Halloween back! I want my entire generation to apologize for believing this blather. Yes...that means you back there with your books and tapes.

There...you've been taunted by the best. Now go have a drink.

UPDATE: Oh c'mon people. Find your sense of humor. You've still got it somewhere. Look in the closet. If you think I am attempting serious analysis....BOO!!! Gotcha again.
3rd Annual Internet Monk Halloween Taunt

 

[tiggerlover]

I am a Christian and I am raising my son to be a Christian and I do allow him to trick or treat. I think Halloween is just another commercial holiday that is a lot of fun. I respect that everyone has different opinions and beliefs just as I have my own opinions and beliefs.

 

[Divamomto3]

In this day and age, we're lucky anyone remembers that Christmas isn't a commercial holiday that centers around expensive video games and new sneakers, never mind that Halloween has some other purpose besides getting free candy.

My kids go to Catholic School and they had a Halloween parade and Halloween parties and a dance for the older kids. They all dressed up, including the teachers. No "evil" costumes or weapons allowed, but I'm quite sure that was a nod to the new political correctness that strays far away from anything that resembles violence in schools (think Columbine). I can't believe that people still think of it as some devil worship day. It's about kids dressed like cartoon characters getting Hershey bars.
However, when I step on the scale in 2 weeks, I'll be screaming EVIL! EVIL! EVIL! I'm sure.

 

[WeluvDisney2]

stevenpensacola, I want to be a PICKLE!!

 

[betz]

As the 'Devil' was never really 'born' or never really will 'die' according to Christian legend, the 'devil' really doesn't have a birthday. I guess the day 'God the Father' kicked his favorite 'angel' out of 'heaven', thus making him the 'Devil', could be considered the 'Devil's' birthday, but that was way before 'Days' were even made, and way way before the begining of time. So have a little Sympathy For The Devil, he really doesn't have a birthday.

Pleased to meet you (whoo whoo)
Hope you guessed my name, (whoo whoo) oh yeah (whoo whoo)
But what's confusing you (whoo whoo)
Is just the nature of my game (whoo whoo) um yeah (whoo whoo)

Just as every cop is a criminal (whoo whoo)
And all the sinners saints (whoo whoo)
As heads is tails (whoo whoo)
Just call me Lucifer (whoo whoo)
'Cause I'm in need of some restraint (whoo whoo)

So if you meet me (whoo whoo)
Have some courtesy (whoo whoo)
Have some sympathy, (whoo whoo) and some taste (whoo whoo)
Use all your well-learned politesse (whoo whoo)
Or I'll lay your(whoo whoo) soul to waste,(whoo whoo), um yeah (whoo whoo)

Pleased to meet you (whoo whoo)
Hope you guessed my name, (whoo whoo) um yeah (whoo, whoo)
But what's puzzling you (whoo whoo)
Is the nature of my game, (whoo whoo) um mean it, (whoo whoo) get down
(whoo whoo) (whoo whoo)
(whoo whoo) (whoo whoo)

 

[WDWPsychoALice]

Halloween had its beginnings in an ancient, pre-Christian Celtic festival of the dead. The Celtic peoples, who were once found all over Europe, divided the year by four major holidays. According to their calendar, the year began on a day corresponding to November 1st on our present calendar. The date marked the beginning of winter. Since they were pastoral people, it was a time when cattle and sheep had to be moved to closer pastures and all livestock had to be secured for the winter months. Crops were harvested and stored. The date marked both an ending and a beginning in an eternal cycle.

The festival observed at this time was called Samhain (pronounced Sah-ween). It was the biggest and most significant holiday of the Celtic year. The Celts believed that at the time of Samhain, more so than any other time of the year, the ghosts of the dead were able to mingle with the living, because at Samhain the souls of those who had died during the year traveled into the otherworld. People gathered to sacrifice animals, fruits, and vegetables. They also lit bonfires in honor of the dead, to aid them on their journey, and to keep them away from the living. On that day all manner of beings were abroad: ghosts, fairies, and demons--all part of the dark and dread.

Samhain became the Halloween we are familiar with when Christian missionaries attempted to change the religious practices of the Celtic people. In the early centuries of the first millennium A.D., before missionaries such as St. Patrick and St. Columcille converted them to Christianity, the Celts practiced an elaborate religion through their priestly caste, the Druids, who were priests, poets, scientists and scholars all at once. As religious leaders, ritual specialists, and bearers of learning, the Druids were not unlike the very missionaries and monks who were to Christianize their people and brand them evil devil worshippers.

As a result of their efforts to wipe out "pagan" holidays, such as Samhain, the Christians succeeded in effecting major transformations in it. In 601 A.D. Pope Gregory the First issued a now famous edict to his missionaries concerning the native beliefs and customs of the peoples he hoped to convert. Rather than try to obliterate native peoples' customs and beliefs, the pope instructed his missionaries to use them: if a group of people worshipped a tree, rather than cut it down, he advised them to consecrate it to Christ and allow its continued worship.

In terms of spreading Christianity, this was a brilliant concept and it became a basic approach used in Catholic missionary work. Church holy days were purposely set to coincide with native holy days. Christmas, for instance, was assigned the arbitrary date of December 25th because it corresponded with the mid-winter celebration of many peoples. Likewise, St. John's Day was set on the summer solstice.

Samhain, with its emphasis on the supernatural, was decidedly pagan. While missionaries identified their holy days with those observed by the Celts, they branded the earlier religion's supernatural deities as evil, and associated them with the devil. As representatives of the rival religion, Druids were considered evil worshippers of devilish or demonic gods and spirits. The Celtic underworld inevitably became identified with the Christian Hell.

The effects of this policy were to diminish but not totally eradicate the beliefs in the traditional gods. Celtic belief in supernatural creatures persisted, while the church made deliberate attempts to define them as being not merely dangerous, but malicious. Followers of the old religion went into hiding and were branded as witches.

The Christian feast of All Saints was assigned to November 1st. The day honored every Christian saint, especially those that did not otherwise have a special day devoted to them. This feast day was meant to substitute for Samhain, to draw the devotion of the Celtic peoples, and, finally, to replace it forever. That did not happen, but the traditional Celtic deities diminished in status, becoming fairies or leprechauns of more recent traditions.

The old beliefs associated with Samhain never died out entirely. The powerful symbolism of the traveling dead was too strong, and perhaps too basic to the human psyche, to be satisfied with the new, more abstract Catholic feast honoring saints. Recognizing that something that would subsume the original energy of Samhain was necessary, the church tried again to supplant it with a Christian feast day in the 9th century. This time it established November 2nd as All Souls Day--a day when the living prayed for the souls of all the dead. But, once again, the practice of retaining traditional customs while attempting to redefine them had a sustaining effect: the traditional beliefs and customs lived on, in new guises.

All Saints Day, otherwise known as All Hallows (hallowed means sanctified or holy), continued the ancient Celtic traditions. The evening prior to the day was the time of the most intense activity, both human and supernatural. People continued to celebrate All Hallows Eve as a time of the wandering dead, but the supernatural beings were now thought to be evil. The folk continued to propitiate those spirits (and their masked impersonators) by setting out gifts of food and drink. Subsequently, All Hallows Eve became Hallow Evening, which became Hallowe'en--an ancient Celtic, pre-Christian New Year's Day in contemporary dress.

Many supernatural creatures became associated with All Hallows. In Ireland fairies were numbered among the legendary creatures who roamed on Halloween. An old folk ballad called "Allison Gross" tells the story of how the fairy queen saved a man from a witch's spell on Halloween.

O Allison Gross, that lives in yon tower
the ugliest witch int he North Country...
She's turned me into an ugly worm
and gard me toddle around a tree...


But as it fell out last Hallow even
When the seely [fairy] court was riding by,
the Queen lighted down on a gowany bank
Not far from the tree where I wont to lie...
She's change me again to my own proper shape
And I no more toddle about the tree.


In old England cakes were made for the wandering souls, and people went "a' soulin'" for these "soul cakes." Halloween, a time of magic, also became a day of divination, with a host of magical beliefs: for instance, if persons hold a mirror on Halloween and walk backwards down the stairs to the basement, the face that appears in the mirror will be their next lover.

Virtually all present Halloween traditions can be traced to the ancient Celtic day of the dead. Halloween is a holiday of many mysterious customs, but each one has a history, or at least a story behind it. The wearing of costumes, for instance, and roaming from door to door demanding treats can be traced to the Celtic period and the first few centuries of the Christian era, when it was thought that the souls of the dead were out and around, along with fairies, witches, and demons. Offerings of food and drink were left out to placate them. As the centuries wore on, people began dressing like these dreadful creatures, performing antics in exchange for food and drink. This practice is called mumming, from which the practice of trick-or-treating evolved. To this day, witches, ghosts, and skeleton figures of the dead are among the favorite disguises. Halloween also retains some features that harken back to the original harvest holiday of Samhain, such as the customs of bobbing for apples and carving vegetables, as well as the fruits, nuts, and spices cider associated with the day.

Today Halloween is becoming once again an adult holiday or masquerade, like Mardi Gras. Men and women in every disguise imaginable are taking to the streets of big American cities and parading past grinningly carved, candlelit jack o'lanterns, re- enacting customs with a lengthy pedigree. Their masked antics challenge, mock, tease, and appease the dread forces of the night, of the soul, and of the otherworld that becomes our world on this night of reversible possibilities, inverted roles, and transcendency. In so doing, they are reaffirming death and its place as a part of life in an exhilarating celebration of a holy and magic evening.

 

[Pooh Girl 71]

All of the Christian holidays have pagan roots. It was much easier for the Christians to get converts if they made the holidays/festivals familiar to the people.

What I don't get it is why is it ok to beg strangers for candy on this day but not any other day?

IMO, Halloween is all in fun. If you don't want to participate, then don't. There is no need to tear other people apart due to their beliefs.

 

[Geoff_M]

We celebrate Easter with Easter Eggs and Bunnies because they symbolize new life. An egg holds a new life and everyone knows how fertile bunnies are! Spring flowers blooming and alive again after the long winter. Just as Jesus was resurrected and alive again after his death on the cross.

We celebrate Christmas by giving each other gifts because the birth of Jesus (our savior) was the greatest gift that God has ever given mankind.

Yes you can spin pagan symbolisms into Christian parallels... and their's nothing wrong with that. Likewise you can use Halloween (along with All Saint's Day) to remember our departed loved ones and persons of faith that we admire. My point is that if you wish to condemn Halloween due to the fact that it's "tainted" with Paganism, then you need re-examine Easter and Christmas rituals under the same microscope if you wish to be consistent.

 

[WebmasterAlex]

Well Geoff we are talking about people's beliefs, consistency is not a requirement and may not even be a goal

 

[eeyore kelly]

My kids didn't T/T tonight, but it was because their Mom and Dad is lazy. We went to the campground last weekend and they T/T there. Tonight, we went to Chuck E. Cheese's. Dh and I sat in a booth and talked, and the kids played games. Two hours later, we were on our way home. Next year they want to go to the movies. I like this parenting "big kids." BTW, my kids' ages are 8 & 11.

 

[dopeys biggest fan]

Originally posted by palmtreegirl
.....................................nah, I'm walking away from this one, I had too much fun today!

I couldn't agree more!!

 

[AmazingGrace]

We're seriously setting some limits next year. Our church had a fall festival last Friday night, tons of candy. Then,Ocean Springs had their downtown T-T'ing this Friday night, followed by Neighborhood t-t'ing last night. We learned the hard way this year. Now we have so much candy, that it's a battle getting the princess to eat real food.
As far as costumes go, I personally don't like to see children dressed in blood and gore. A campy looking witch or a silly looking ghost is okay, but i draw the line at entrails. So, My children won't be wearing anything scary. My personal opinion. No judgement on anyone else.

 

[browneyes]

This reminds me of a story my brother was telling me he read about the other day. The reporter was talking to a lot of religious groups to get their reaction to Halloween being on Sunday this year. There was this lady that didn't want to celebrate Halloween on Sunday because as she said "you shouldn't celebrate the devil's birthday on the Sabbath." My brother wished the reporter had commented on, by that statement, if it meant the lady thought it was ok to celebrate it the other 6 days of the week.

So, although some cults may have adopted Halloween as their favorite "holiday," the day itself did not grow out of evil practices. It grew out of the rituals of Celts celebrating a new year, and out of Medieval prayer rituals of Europeans. And today, even many churches have Halloween parties or pumpkin carving events for the kids. After all, the day itself is only as evil as one cares to make it.

That last sentence from this link pretty much reflects how I feel.

 

[luvthatduke]

"That's what has me so confused about this thread.
Nobody said "you shouldn't celebrate halloween"
It was all about peoples personal choices.
I don't understand why people need to post such venomous replies about someone's personal choice that doesn't hurt anyone and doesn't affect anyone.
I guess it just makes some people feel superior to pick people apart."

Exactly, Alex. Thank you for saying so...

PrincessPumpkin - you started this thread with a genuine
question, giving your own, personal opinion on why you started it.
Unfortunately, it got hijacked.

More's the pity that people read the word "Christian" and all
their "ghosts from churches past" jump right out.
Then some (not all) project their discomfort with someone's
faith coming to bear on their decision-making, when no one
ever tried to judge those same individuals in this thread,
(as Alex pointed out so well).

So, I'm jumping in to answer PrincessPumpkin's OP,
for whatever it's worth:

I am a Christian, as is my DH. We made the decision
before we had children (now have DS, 21 months) that
we would not participate in T/T, for the sole reason that
it is nothing like it was when we were children.
There is way too much gore, violence & truly frightening
things to be seen - and that's just in the windows at the malls!!

I know, some of you are going to want to tell me how
you didn't see hardly anything that bad around your
neighborhood - but why would I allow my little boy
to even see ONE awful, scary face/outfit, if I could prevent it?
He doesn't view frightening images on the TV,
including the news, as we feel there is no place in
his childlike mind & heart for ugly things to be forced
upon him, before he can understand why he's seeing them.
So, I really can't say that we don't participate on this one night
because of our faith, necessarily.

We turn off our lights & go out somewhere on Halloween,
and the neighbors understand. Nothing's ever been said
to our faces, and we have great relationships with them all.
We have no opinion whatsoever on whether or not
they celebrate any particular holiday, because if they
thought we condemned them why would they want
to talk to us?

Next year, when DS will be almost 3 yrs. old, we plan
on taking him to one of the many "Candy Carnivals" held
in area churches.
No one there puts on a play about Ruth, and you don't have to
dress in a biblical costume, as was snidely commented in a previous post.
Any "clean character" is welcome.
They play fun games, watch fun movies, and the children
are not forced to see anything horrific or frightening.

We do not fear Satan or his cronies on that one night,
or any other night - he is a paper tiger for those who trust God.
We believe in Jesus Christ, and know that He Alone is
the One who has power over the darkness - every night of the year...

Blessings

 

[Buckalew11]

FWIW, celebrating Christmas and Easter are different for me because they have some direct relationship to Jesus--birth, death and resurrection. Not that the holidays don't have pagan roots but there is a connection to Christ. For me, Halloween has nothing to do with Christ. It may have something to do with lost loved ones and "Saints" who have passed on, but there are other days in my life that I remember people who I have loved who have passed on. Truly, as a child I never thought about anything but candy and dressing up on this holiday. No one ever mentioned loved ones and Saints to me... but, of course, as a Baptist, we don't even have Saints so...

I have NO bones to pick with someone who celebrates Halloween. I don't care if you do cutesy costumes or bloody, gory costumes. It's your call. I hope the people who celebrate the day have fun with it. I think most do. It isn't for me and that should be OK with other people. I don't know why it bothers people so much.

Edited to say "NO bones".

 

[JPN4265]

Originally posted by princesspumpkin
I've struggled with this issue for a few years. I've always known how I and my religion feel about celebrating halloween. Now that I have a child (DD-8), it has really become an issue. I've allowed her to T/T for years. These last few years, she and I have both become more actively involved in our church. Today, she mentioned that in Sunday School, her teacher commented on celebrating the devil's birthday. After service, we talked about halloween and what our religion and I feel about it. I asked her what she felt and she said she didn't want to celebrate the devil's birthday, just "do" halloween. I've heard people talking about picking their battles, but I also feel that there are some battles that need to be fought, especially at this age where we are trying to lay a spiritual foundation. I informed her that this would be her last year T/T'ing. She was not very happy, but I am very comfortable with my decision. I just wanted to find out what other Christian parents have done in similiar circumstances. Thanks

And you wonder why our country is heading in the wrong direction with thoughts like this.

 

[luckywife]

My SIL just told me, DH and our 10 year old DS Saturday that Halloween is an "evil day for evil people." She goes to church every Sunday, we do not. I was kind of upset that she would say that, especially around my DS. We celebrate Halloween, decorate for it and take the boys out trick or treating. I told SIL that there are evil people EVERYDAY of the year, not just on October 31st. I just don't see the connection between evil, the devil and Halloween?!

 

[Geoff_M]

FWIW, celebrating Christmas and Easter are different for me because they have some direct relationship to Jesus--birth, death and resurrection. Not that the holidays don't have pagan roots but there is a connection to Christ. For me, Halloween has nothing to do with Christ.

That's an interesting qualification. It's also interesting how feelings about Christmas and its pagan influence has changed over the years. For a large portion of American history it's practice was banned by church and government alike for the same reason that some people don't like Halloween today. Personally, I do see a Christian connection to All Saint's Day, All Hallow's Eve, etc.

It may have something to do with lost loved ones and "Saints" who have passed on, but there are other days in my life that I remember people who I have loved who have passed on.

I'm not sure by you used the quotes around the word Saints (in some circles that usage is known as Sneer Quotes). Is it because the term is most closely associated with Catholicism? If so, that's a very narrow view of the concept. (And I apologize in advance if that wasn't your thinking.) I'm Protestant too and all Christians are called to be Saints and enter the "great cloud of witnesses". Also ironic in your comments are the exact reasons that Christmas and Easter used to be banned by Protestant Churches... they felt that you shouldn't try and draw a circle around the rememberance of the birth and resurrection to one day each year. They felt these ideas should be treated the same all year long.

Truly, as a child I never thought about anything but candy and dressing up on this holiday. No one ever mentioned loved ones and Saints to me... but, of course, as a Baptist, we don't even have Saints so...

Again, all are called to be Saints... Methodists, Baptists, Catholics, etc. It's not limited to the formalized Catholic concept.

I have bones to pick with someone who celebrates Halloween. I don't care if you do cutesy costumes or bloody, gory costumes. It's your call. I hope the people who celebrate the day have fun with it. I think most do. It isn't for me and that should be OK with other people. I don't know why it bothers people so much.

It's perfectly OK for you to not celebrate Halloween... I just shake my head at a lot of the logic used to support such views. Particularly when most of the same logic can be applied to other events the person doesn't have a problem with. That's all.