• Controversial Topics
    Several months ago, I added a private sub-forum to allow members to discuss these topics without fear of infractions or banning. It's opt-in, opt-out. Corey Click Here

Another BTMR accident

Bob O

<font color=navy>Voice of Reason<br><font color=re
Joined
Mar 2, 2000
More bad news for DL!!!! From miceage.com
I can assure you that the folks in the Team Disney Anaheim building out back will be wanting to add something extra to their coffee this morning. You may want to consider putting in a kick too - as the news we have today may be a bit unsettling, to say the least.

Let's get started, shall we?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another (HUSH!) Big Thunder Accident

Visitors to Disneyland in the past few days are wondering why the line for Big Thunder Mountain is so long, and why Fastpass tickets are no longer available for the popular thrill ride. As you all know Big Thunder Mountain is perhaps the most infamous attraction currently operating in Disneyland right now after the accident last September that killed one rider and injured several others. Even though Disney supposedly buffed and polished the ride back into pristine condition before it reopened, the 25-year-old roller coaster suffered another blow to its already shaky reputation when two empty trains collided this past weekend.

During a very routine downtime this past Saturday evening the crew of Attraction Cast Members were attempting to restart Big Thunder after all of the riders had been escorted off and the queue had been emptied out. As they cycled through their well practiced routine of bringing all of the trains back into the station, the computer system that ultimately controls the placement and spacing of the trains apparently ran into a glitch and caused the collision, which was so hard and loud that it was heard throughout Frontierland and out into the central hub in front of the Castle.

From the first hand reports we've received, there was a train sitting stationary in a brake zone directly in front of the small western town alongside the track before the trains return to the loading area. There was also a train sitting on the final lift hill, better known as the "Earthquake Scene," and the computer allowed that train to be cycled up and over the crest of that hill to begin its gravity driven descent back to the station. However, after that train went over the top of the hill the brakes in the next safety zone failed to recognize that the train should be stopped and that moving train continued on its way, gaining speed as it rounded the corner and splashed down into the "Dinosaur Pond" near the end of the ride. That train then sped around the final corner at full speed and rear-ended the other train still sitting on the tracks awaiting its turn to enter the station.

The impact of those two multi-ton vehicles colliding at high speed made a horrifically loud metallic sounding boom, startling the customers shopping in Frontierland stores or finishing their meals on the Rancho Del Zocalo restaurant patio. The impact occurred at just a few minutes after 9 pm when Fantasmic! had just started on the Rivers of America, so the shows blaring PA system helped muffle the sound of the impact for the thousands watching the show along the riverbank in Frontierland and New Orleans Square. But Cast Members and visitors alike heard the incredible crash even out into the busy hub and even towards the end of Main Street.

Moments after the crash, as alarmed diners on the patio asked Rancho Del Zocalo Cast Members what had just happened, some of those restaurant Cast Members simply peered through the north facing window frames and saw the two trains sitting crooked on the track. One woman who was eating her dinner at a table with a perfect view of the attraction announced to everyone on the patio that she had seen the trains collide and buckle under the impact. Rancho Del Zocalo busboys bluntly stated to a small crowd of interested observers that "It looks like those two trains just crashed into each other!" But as the last few straggling diners at Rancho Del Zocalo left the bizarre scene after a few moments of interested gawking, the Attractions Cast Members operating the ride were just beginning a very baffling process of trying to figure out what had gone wrong.

And of course it only took a few minutes for a small battalion of managers to arrive at the scene, along with just about every maintenance man on duty that night. More phone calls were made, and within ninety minutes the infamous T Irby, the Senior Vice President of Facilities and his Vice President of Engineering had driven to Disneyland from home to inspect the accident scene.

The first train that had been sitting stationary on the track and was being held in place by a series of brakes was pushed forward through the brakes approximately ten yards during the impact. The cars of that train had moderate damage to their couplings and wheel assemblies. The second train that came at full speed around the bend and rammed into the back of the other train was the one that had the most damage. The front end of its fake locomotive car was trashed, and the first three cars had jumped the tracks and broken their axles, crumpling many wheel assemblies underneath the weight and force of the impact. There was cracked and broken fiberglass panels on both trains, and some random metal parts strewn about the accident scene.


An unused Fastpass for that very night

The Facilities department conducted a quick investigation of the scene, although all of the evidence they really needed was contained in the detailed computer printouts that offered a millisecond by millisecond account of what happened on the ride. It took them most of the night to disassemble the damaged trains and transport them back to the maintenance facilities behind the park. They then inspected every section of track and repaired some of the damaged infrastructure as Disneyland prepared to open on Sunday morning at 8 am. Big Thunder Mountain finally opened for the day at 11 am on Sunday, but it is now struggling with a severely reduced ability to handle the large crowds that this popular ride attracts.

When Big Thunder Mountain Railroad opened in 1979 it had six complete trains built. The attraction runs at full capacity with five trains in operation, and the plan was that one train in the fleet would always be undergoing a thorough annual refurbishment while the other five were in daily operation on the attraction. And Big Thunder operated under that basic plan for its first 20 years, until T Irby's Facilities department economy drives in the late '90s (forced into by former parks head Paul "we have to ride these rides to failure to save money" Pressler) began restricting the number of trains available at certain times of the year. And after last September's deadly accident, Big Thunder returned to service with a maximum of only four trains available. (The train involved in the accident is still being held by Disney until all of the legal issues from the accident are resolved. Aside from the fact they probably wouldn't want to return it to service anyway.) And so now, for all intents and purposes, Big Thunder only has five trains total, which means a maximum of four would only be available to be used when the attraction reopened.

Now of course, after Saturday night's high speed collision, there are only two remaining trains that are able to run on the track. The two damaged trains are undergoing furious tests to the structural integrity of the damaged sections, and repairs will begin as soon as possible. But those repairs will take many days, if not weeks or months. In the meantime, Big Thunder opened on Sunday with only two trains operating. The capacity of this classic E Ticket has been slashed from the 2,150 riders per hour they used to routinely achieve with five trains, to a comparatively measly 900 riders per hour they've eeeked out the past two days.

There was even a time this past Sunday afternoon when one of the two trains developed a small problem and had to be pulled in to the maintenance shed behind Rancho Del Zocalo for a quick repair. And that left Big Thunder Railroad operating for several hours on a weekend afternoon with just one single train. They were only able to get approximately 450 riders per hour during that ugly period, and the estimated wait time stretched to two hours long. With the rides capacity slashed to near nothing, and the unpredictability of the two remaining trains, management decided that there would be no way they could offer Fastpass under those conditions and the ticket machines have been shut down and covered up.

What is to become of Big Thunder now? Since there were no park visitors on the attraction at the time of the crash the state inspectors from DOSH are likely out of the loop. And since no employee was injured in the crash the inspectors from Cal-OSHA have no real authority in the matter either. It's likely that it will be solely up to Disneyland to identify the exact glitch or computerized cause of the accident, and then repair the trains and get some semblance of normalcy back to the attraction.

Even though the attraction is heading into the two busy weeks around Easter when the park is open until Midnight, the decision was made that the attraction must remain open with just the two remaining trains. It was decided that it would be far more problematic if the attraction involved in the deadly accident last year was suddenly closed again right at the very beginning of the busy Spring Break weeks. It has shades of Space Mountain's mysterious and very sudden closure on April 10th, 2003 on the first Friday of the two busy Spring Break weeks, doesn't it?

Not wanting to repeat that embarrassing, and to these eyes at least highly suspect decision, Big Thunder will continue to operate with a severely reduced capacity that is unable to accommodate the Fastpass system for the time being. We'll keep on top of this developing story for you in case more information becomes available.
 
Imagine being the poor kid at the control panel when those things hit.

"Do you have any idea how fired you are?"

"Dude, I swear I didn't do anything!"


JC
 
Originally posted by toefungus
I'll never be getting onto DL's BIg THunder Mountain ever again.

Eh, it didn't kill me a couple weeks ago.

I have faith in the stressed maintainence people that they'll figure out what went wrong. The design is fundimentally sound. They just need to know what went wrong. Of course, I'd hesitate to get on it until they announce the fix.
 


Obviously the odds are still extremely small that anything would go wrong on any single ride on any any attraction, even BTMRR.

But this is not good, and does take that comfort level down another notch.
 
This really concerns me. If this happened as portrayed on MiceAge, I think it is very serious. I can’t believe that the train separation hardware/software is unreliable enough to allow this to happen. How could a flaw that serious get through the test and adjust phase over the past several months? Obviously, their testing was inadequate. Also, one would think the default of the system would be to stop all trains if everything is not exactly correct. In this case something failed in a major way. And they already have live guests back on the attraction? That’s just asking for something to happen.

Oh wait, I heard the guy that left the hatch open on the JC at WDW got a transfer…
 
The hardware / software IS reliable enough ... in this case, it's the people who were the problem.

From the Orange County Register : "The Division of Occupational Safety & Health said an employee who works in the train's tower and a supervisor made errors during a reset procedure that led to the crash. The tower employee failed to verify that two trains were in the same brake zone when he gave the clear signal to send one through, and it rear-ended the second train." This all happened while the system was on "manual" which, according to both DOSH and Disney, is used for reset procedures during which guests are not on the trains. All ride procedures are controlled by the software.

Again from the Orange County Register article ... "DOSH spokesman Dean Fryer said the state is not concerned about Disney's training procedures. 'This involved two individual employees,' Fryer said. 'The training that has been provided to operators has been reviewed and approved as adequate. There is no way to guarantee that employees, even if properly trained, will follow the proper guidelines.' Ed Pribonic, a theme-park safety consultant and former Disneyland engineer, believes Disney's computerized ride-control systems are trustworthy. 'It's when you go into manual mode that an individual is in charge of where the trains go and when,' said Pribonic, head of Magnatar Corp. in Seal Beach. 'Disney would never risk running the ride with guests on board in manual mode.' "

:earsboy:
 


You would have thought with all the downtime that the employee's would have been tested/restested mutipile times so something like this wouldnt happen on this ride. With all the attention the fatality received this is one ride you want no accidetns on, escepcially when SM is closed for renovations. The lines are going to be very long this easter weekend!!!
 
The training that has been provided to operators has been reviewed and approved as adequate.
Apparently not. Two trains collided at considerable expense to Disney. The fact that this could happen so soon after re-opening tells me that something is wrong. If anything, training should have been doubled before this opening. This should not have happened, especially now.

'Disney would never risk running the ride with guests on board in manual mode.'
If a ride operator can override the system and take control, eventually they will. Disney may not risk it, but an employee might.
 
What I find interesting is that I was talking to the CM's there the night it reopened and BTMRR is currently being run by a group of the best CMs from across the park. they all have senoirity and excellent safety records.


That being said, the reports of BTMRRs problems were a bit premature. as of yesterday, BTMRR was operating with trains 1,4,5 and 6 and fast pass was available.
I assume they got train 1 fixed from a year ago and are running without a spare.
 

GET A DISNEY VACATION QUOTE

Dreams Unlimited Travel is committed to providing you with the very best vacation planning experience possible. Our Vacation Planners are experts and will share their honest advice to help you have a magical vacation.

Let us help you with your next Disney Vacation!











facebook twitter
Top