American College of Pediatricians issues Gardasil concern

[mnrose]

Are they saying only females who had the vaccine are show pof or are they saying there is an increase in general and it happens to coincide with the increase in the vaccine? As someone who had pof and has not had the vaccine there can be other causes. The number of women seeking fertility treatments has steadily increased for decades. There are many reasons why and many theories from environment to food safety to evolution. Although I would welcome more scientific research coincidence does not equal causation.

Exactly. Infertility is increasing....if I were a betting woman, I would bet on the chemical soup we've made of our environment. It's going to be pretty difficult to tease out an exact cause. Also, with the advent of modern infertility treatments, I would expect it to continue to rise. Couples who are using IVF, etc to get pregnant (when they couldn't otherwise) may well be passing on these genetic predispositions to their off spring.

It's very difficult to apply causation in any group as large as the number of young women getting this shot. Whether or not they get this vaccine, there's going to be a certain percentage who get POF. So, someone gets the shot, develops POF....is this the shot or not? The knee jerk reaction is "must be the shot" (which led to the hysteria regarding vaccines and autism) when there might well be no causal link whatsoever. I'd have to see the stats re: women who develop POF with the shot vs. women who develop POF with no shot. If there is a statistically significant difference, then yes, maybe, but otherwise the fact that a small number of women who get the shot and then develop POF is not meaningful to me.

 

[Magpie]

We all get our flu shot every year because my mother-in-law lives with us, and she's got terminal... Everything Cancer. Anything we can do to protect her compromised immune system, we'll do it.

My daughter got her HPV shots in middle school, because cervical cancer is a horrible way to die. And, quite frankly, even if it does bring on menopause a few years earlier, I'd still think that was a fair trade. She already knows she's got to have her babies in her 20s, if she plans to have them at all, due to my family history of irregular cycles plus early (and long) peri-menopause.

As for teaching your child to be "chaste"... the best, most effective, way to accomplish that is to give them a thorough and comprehensive sexual education beginning at a young age. And it should be respectful and focussed on making smart choices and keeping yourself safe, not on scaring kids or humiliating them with offensive "used Kleenex" and "dirty toothbrush" analogies. If this "American College of Pediatricians" is opposed to that, then I won't waste my time on them.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I also believe that you shouldn't be a lemur

Lemming?

 

[jrmasm]

Lemming?

Oh snap!

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

It's embarassing how ignorant this American College of Pediatricians is. And imo irresponsible to post this, unless it was a joke?
Why not the CDC report issued this week endorsing a more effective vaccine?

 

[mefordis]

We all get our flu shot every year because my mother-in-law lives with us, and she's got terminal... Everything Cancer. Anything we can do to protect her compromised immune system, we'll do it.

My daughter got her HPV shots in middle school, because cervical cancer is a horrible way to die. And, quite frankly, even if it does bring on menopause a few years earlier, I'd still think that was a fair trade. She already knows she's got to have her babies in her 20s, if she plans to have them at all, due to my family history of irregular cycles plus early (and long) peri-menopause.

As for teaching your child to be "chaste"... the best, most effective, way to accomplish that is to give them a thorough and comprehensive sexual education beginning at a young age. And it should be respectful and focussed on making smart choices and keeping yourself safe, not on scaring kids or humiliating them with offensive "used Kleenex" and "dirty toothbrush" analogies. If this "American College of Pediatricians" is opposed to that, then I won't waste my time on them.

The ovarian failure / early menopause is actually being reported as occurring in their teens. The vaccine has only been out for several years and is administered to 11 year olds so it stands to reason these are teens who stop getting their periods after (coincidentally?) they get these shots. It's quite a gamble to make.

 

[gemini2727]

From the CDC website:

"Can HPV vaccines damage women’s ovaries?
CDC and FDA have not found evidence that Gardasil causes premature ovarian failure (a condition in which a woman’s ovaries stop functioning before age 40). In fact, many different things can cause premature ovarian failure: it can be genetic; caused by chemicals in the environment, cancer treatments, or cigarettes; or caused by an autoimmune disorder or a viral infection. However, in many cases it’s impossible to determine the cause.

From June 2006 through September 2015, when about 80 million doses of Gardasil had been given out in the United States, VAERS received 16 reports of premature ovarian failure or premature menopause following receipt of the Gardasil vaccine in the United States. VAERS also received an additional 10 reports of related conditions (ovarian disorder or ovarian failure) after Gardasil vaccination. When adverse events happen after vaccination, it does not necessarily mean they are caused by that vaccination. Because there were no patterns among these reports, and since studies have not found ovarian failure to be associated with HPV vaccination, there is no evidence that Gardasil caused the ovarian failure.

Before Gardasil was licensed, its safety was extensively studied in clinical trials. These studies found no difference in amenorrhea (when a woman of reproductive age doesn’t have a period) between women who got Gardasil compared to women who received a placebo (a shot with no medicine in it). Premature ovarian failure was not found to happen among women in the Gardasil clinical trials."

 

[Kellydelly]

We all get our flu shot every year because my mother-in-law lives with us, and she's got terminal... Everything Cancer. Anything we can do to protect her compromised immune system, we'll do it.

My daughter got her HPV shots in middle school, because cervical cancer is a horrible way to die. And, quite frankly, even if it does bring on menopause a few years earlier, I'd still think that was a fair trade. She already knows she's got to have her babies in her 20s, if she plans to have them at all, due to my family history of irregular cycles plus early (and long) peri-menopause.

As for teaching your child to be "chaste"... the best, most effective, way to accomplish that is to give them a thorough and comprehensive sexual education beginning at a young age. And it should be respectful and focussed on making smart choices and keeping yourself safe, not on scaring kids or humiliating them with offensive "used Kleenex" and "dirty toothbrush" analogies. If this "American College of Pediatricians" is opposed to that, then I won't waste my time on them.

Premature ovarian failure manifests in your teens and childbearing years, it does not mean you get menopause a few years early. It means your body fails you when you are trying to conceive, and it wreaks havoc on your bone density too. Not a fair trade for not getting HPV, if you ask me. I have no idea the merits of the study showing a relation between getting Gardasil and ending up with POF, but you should understand what POF is before you comment on how it isn't a big deal to end up with it. It is horrible diagnosis to have if you want children.

 

[okeydokey]

Of note, the American College of Pediatricians is a relatively small (60 to 200 members), socially conservative organization founded in 2002 that also doesn't support comprehensive sex education and adoption by same-sex couples. They have been frequently accused of mischaracterizing or mis-using research to support things like the idea that schools should deny support to gay teenagers. No less than researchers at the NIH have accused them of misleading parents and children.

(All of that information is from the wiki article with citations to various cases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_College_of_Pediatricians)

They are decidedly not the American Academy of Pediatrics, founded in 1930 and the true national professional group for pediatricians. The AAP recommends this particular vaccine: https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the...-HPV-Vaccines-For-Both-Males-and-Females.aspx

Thank you so much for this information. It explains a lot.

 

[GoofyPrincess]

This is a little light-hearted for a medical conversation, but it was so funny that I have to share.

After much debate, we chose to have my boy-girl twins vaccinated. They both hate shots, so we didn't say anything to them until the morning of the doctor's visit (for their annual check-up). We explained carefully what we had chosen to do and let them ask questions. We thought everything was fine. Shots were given with no issues and we headed for home.

On the drive home, my son suddenly says, "Wait a minute...what did you say that shot was for??? My uterus? Do I even have one of those??"

I was laughing so hard I almost had to pull off the road.

The follow-up to that is the second shot they received, months later, he still was complaining about it. This time he determined that I had obviously gotten a "buy one, get one free" coupon for the shot and that's why he had to have one - to use the free shot.

Lastly, after the final shot in the series, he was very pleased to inform everyone that his uterus was now safe.

 

[Magpie]

Premature ovarian failure manifests in your teens and childbearing years, it does not mean you get menopause a few years early. It means your body fails you when you are trying to conceive, and it wreaks havoc on your bone density too. Not a fair trade for not getting HPV, if you ask me. I have no idea the merits of the study showing a relation between getting Gardasil and ending up with POF, but you should understand what POF is before you comment on how it isn't a big deal to end up with it. It is horrible diagnosis to have if you want children.

Sorry if I offended you. I stated my opinion poorly, and will explain below what I meant...

The ovarian failure / early menopause is actually being reported as occurring in their teens. The vaccine has only been out for several years and is administered to 11 year olds so it stands to reason these are teens who stop getting their periods after (coincidentally?) they get these shots. It's quite a gamble to make.

Quite the gamble? I don't think so. Now gambling with cervical cancer... that's a whole other issue!

This is what the link says:

There have been two case report series (3 cases each) published since 2013 in which post-menarcheal adolescent girls developed laboratory documented POF within weeks to several years of receiving Gardasil, a four-strain human papillomavirus vaccine (HPV4).1,2

Six girls out of how many thousands, tens of thousands, millions? And then to go on to say...

Adverse events that occur after vaccines are frequently not caused by the vaccine and there has not been a noticeable rise in POF cases in the last 9 years since HPV4 vaccine has been widely used.

I'm more worried my kid will get hit by a stray meteorite! This study seems completely meaningless.

That said, IF there is ANY small, subtle effect on fertility, which might show up years or decades later, I'm not worried about it, especially when compared to the very real present risk of ovarian cancer caused by HPV. That's all I meant to say. I did not mean to trivialize the suffering of people with POF.

Edit: Wrote "ovarian", meant "cervical", because, you know, ovaries and cervixes are totally easy to mix up (fortunately, I'm not a medical professional!).

 

[Geoff_M]

Japan and some European countries took it off the market.

http://www.tokyotimes.com/side-effects-in-young-girls-take-gardasil-out-from-japanese-market/

Yeah, I guess it's been a while since we've had a HPV vaccine scare thread here with the same old misinformation and misrepresentations. Contrary to what you may read, the HPV vaccine is still very much "on the market" in Japan. What happened was that the Japanese health minister simply removed it from the list of recommended vaccines that the government would provide for free. Japanese parents can still get their kids vaccinated against HPV, but has to be out-of-pocket. The Lancet reports: (bolding mine)

Free vaccination against the human papillomavirus (HPV) began in December, 2010, for Japanese girls aged 12–16 years and since April, 2013, the vaccine was included in the national immunisation programme. However, in June, 2013, the Japanese Ministry of Health, Labour, and Welfare suspended proactive recommendations for the HPV vaccine after unconfirmed reports of adverse events following vaccination appeared in the media. In January, 2014, the Vaccine Adverse Reactions Review Committee investigating these adverse events concluded that there was no evidence to suggest a causal association between the HPV vaccine and the reported adverse events after vaccination, but they still did not reinstate proactive recommendations for its use.

 

[gemini2727]

Six girls out of how many thousands, tens of thousands, millions?

"From June 2006 through September 2015...about 80 million doses of Gardasil had been given out in the United States"
-CDC

 

[daisyx3]

I guess you will all mock me, but gardisil is the only shot I did NOT get for my children (daughters now 24 and 21, son almost 18). I guess I'm rolling the dice, but the links to guillan-barre syndrome frightened me as my DH had it and it was a terrible time for my family. My oldest is married to her first serious BF and is now pregnant, so no worries there. I hope my younger daughter is smart enough to dodge the sexual nonsense that goes with a college education (and by that I mean sleeping around, one nighters, etc. I fully expect she's had sex at her age.)
I think that if people make a reasonable decision it needs to be respected, even if it does not agree with your own viewpoint.
Daisyx3

 

[Magpie]

I guess you will all mock me, but gardisil is the only shot I did NOT get for my children (daughters now 24 and 21, son almost 18). I guess I'm rolling the dice, but the links to guillan-barre syndrome frightened me as my DH had it and it was a terrible time for my family. My oldest is married to her first serious BF and is now pregnant, so no worries there. I hope my younger daughter is smart enough to dodge the sexual nonsense that goes with a college education (and by that I mean sleeping around, one nighters, etc. I fully expect she's had sex at her age.)
I think that if people make a reasonable decision it needs to be respected, even if it does not agree with your own viewpoint.
Daisyx3

No mocking here. I didn't get the chicken pox vaccine for my kids when they were small. In retrospect, I regret not getting it for them, but I only knew what I knew at the time and I made best decision I could, under the circumstances.

We got lucky - my guys got away with just a few small scars.

We all try to do what's best for our kids, the best we know how. And Guillan-barre syndrome is legitimately terrifying - sorry your family had to go through that! Just reading the description almost put me off ever taking Aspirin again, back about 20 years ago when they thought there was a link. I wish they'd figure out, once and for all, what actually triggers it, and why it affects some people after a recent illness, immunization, or surgery, and not others.

 

[Geoff_M]

daisyx3, you'll get no mocking from me. I think it's certainly possible to have a reasonable discussion about concerns about Guardasil and questions about how it should be used. For example, I've mentioned that the need to administer it to boys in one such area that can be batted about... unfortunately, that is rarely the sort of thing you get with these threads.

As for your concerns about GBS and Guardasil, while there IS an associated risk for that, WebMD notes this:

...the risk is extremely low: 26 in 10 million in the first two weeks and 30 in 10 million in the first six weeks after vaccination. That compares to 5 in 10 million odds in the general population...

 

[Christine]

, I'm not worried about it, especially when compared to the very real present risk of ovarian cancer caused by HPV. That's all I meant to say. I did not mean to trivialize the suffering of people with POF.

Isn't it cervical cancer that it prevents and NOT ovarian cancer?

 

[gemini2727]

I guess you will all mock me, but gardisil is the only shot I did NOT get for my children (daughters now 24 and 21, son almost 18). I guess I'm rolling the dice, but the links to guillan-barre syndrome frightened me as my DH had it and it was a terrible time for my family. My oldest is married to her first serious BF and is now pregnant, so no worries there. I hope my younger daughter is smart enough to dodge the sexual nonsense that goes with a college education (and by that I mean sleeping around, one nighters, etc. I fully expect she's had sex at her age.)
I think that if people make a reasonable decision it needs to be respected, even if it does not agree with your own viewpoint.
Daisyx3

I wouldn't mock anyone who is acting in the best interest of their children, even if we didn't agree.
That being said, any sexually active person is at risk, it takes one exposure, not necessarily multiple one-nighters, unfortunately.
I have a family member whose pediatrician told her mother to wait to vaccinate, that the vaccine was "too new" at the time, in his opinion.
Guess who was diagnosed with HPV in her early twenties? And she had one boyfriend who she was active with.

 

[gemini2727]

Isn't it cervical cancer that it prevents and NOT ovarian cancer?

I understand Gardasil prevents genital warts and cervical/vaginal cancers caused by certain types of HPV.

 

[Magpie]

Isn't it cervical cancer that it prevents and NOT ovarian cancer?

GAAAH! Typo!

*headdesk*

Thanks. I'll just see myself out with that pack of lemurs over there...