A Comment on Race and Barack Obama

[Suzie Zoo]

Just a disclaimer: This is meant with the utmost respect... if someone wants a fight, I'm not going to engage.


I started reading the thread about the school that was renamed for Barack Obama. I stopped reading after it turned into a discussion on whether or not he should consider himself black (as opposed to bi-racial).

I completely understand the joy that people are feeling over a black man being elected president. It does show that we've come so far. I think I posted in another thread after the election that I wished that going forward it wouldn't even need to be mentioned at all.

BUT anyway... whenever race is brought up in regard to Obama, the conversation turns to "black" vs "bi-racial". The point of half the group is that he looks black... the point of the other half is that he is just as much white.

Both are valid arguments... but it does make me a little bit sad to see the "white" dismissed from his ethnicity. My niece is bi-racial. My brother is white, his ex-wife is black. I would be really sad if she considered herself "black". That would mean that my brother's half of the gene pool didn't matter. And that doesn't mean that I want her to consider herself "white" either. I just want her to be her. She is who she is because of her mother AND her father.

A lot of times, I think this is the point people are trying to make regarding Obama and it gets dismissed.

 

[wilderness01]

I agree.Obama is just as much white as he is black. He was raised by his white mother/grandparents and acknowledges that. He himself refers to himself as a mutt so I wonder where the "first black president" has come from.

I wonder if he looked more white if this would still be happening?

 

[LakeAriel]

What does she look like? black or white? That's probably how she will define herself and others will define her..Obama was raised by his white Mom and white grandparents. Half of his gene pool is from them. Everyone knows that.

I don't know how to simplify this. If he committed a crime and you were a witness ( I know all the cons are salivating over the thought.. )
and the police asked for a description wouldn't you say he was a black man?
At least a light skinned black man? You wouldn't say he was a bi-racial man, would you? It doesn't take from his white side at all...IMO

He made history on November 4, 2008, that is not in dispute.

 

[Suzie Zoo]

What does she look like? black or white? That's probably how she will define herself and others will define her..Obama was raised by his white Mom and white grandparents. Half of his gene pool is from them. Everyone knows that.

I don't know how to simplify this. If he committed a crime and you were a witness ( I know all the cons are salivating over the thought.. )
and the police asked for a description wouldn't you say he was a black man?
At least a light skinned black man? You wouldn't say he was a bi-racial man, would you? It doesn't take from his white side at all...IMO

He made history on November 4, 2008, that is not in dispute.

You don't need to "simplify" anything. I'm not a child who doesn't understand.

Her skin is darker than someone who isn't completely white. But it probably will not be how she defines herself. She wasn't raised that way, by either of her parents.

The way I would describe him if he committed a crime has nothing to do with how he describes himself. I could say he was tall and he might think he's average height. I could say he was wearing a blue shirt and he might think it was green.

And you're right... his making history is NOT in dispute. Don't know where I said that it was

 

[LakeAriel]

You don't need to "simplify" anything. I'm not a child who doesn't understand.

Her skin is darker than someone who isn't completely white. But it probably will not be how she defines herself. She wasn't raised that way, by either of her parents.

The way I would describe him if he committed a crime has nothing to do with how he describes himself. I could say he was tall and he might think he's average height. I could say he was wearing a blue shirt and he might think it was green.

And you're right... his making history is NOT in dispute. Don't know where I said that it was

People have tried over and over to explain to people why he is touted, rightfully so, to be the first African-American president-elect. (Which he is African ( Kenya) and American (Kansas))

It was not meant as an insult trying to simplify the situation and perhaps not for you. The thing is you started, yet another thread, about Barack Obama. So clearly you don't understand.

The explanation about how he would have to get in the back of the bus was perfect. Or he could not eat at Woolworths lunch counter. Or use the white only bathroom. Why? Because his skin tone is black. We have come so far, let's celebrate the strides made here and stop trying to strip the man of everything, including his color.

 

[LakeAriel]

Actually I do have a question regarding nationality, not race.

What nationality was his Mom? Because technically that defines him as well.

 

[Suzie Zoo]

People have tried over and over to explain to people why he is touted, rightfully so, to be the first African-American president-elect. (Which he is African ( Kenya) and American (Kansas))

It was not meant as an insult trying to simplify the situation and perhaps not for you. The thing is you started, yet another thread, about Barack Obama. So clearly you don't understand.

The explanation about how he would have to get in the back of the bus was perfect. Or he could not eat at Woolworths lunch counter. Or use the white only bathroom. Why? Because his skin tone is black. We have come so far, let's celebrate the strides made here and stop trying to strip the man of everything, including his color.

Whatever. I said I wasn't going to engage. You expect us to understand your POV but you refuse to see someone else's.

Have a nice day.

 

[taximomfor4]

The explanation about how he would have to get in the back of the bus was perfect. Or he could not eat at Woolworths lunch counter. Or use the white only bathroom. Why? Because his skin tone is black. We have come so far, let's celebrate the strides made here and stop trying to strip the man of everything, including his color.

I agree with this. I think referring to him as the first black president, it's from a civil rights history perspective. 45 yrs ago, which drinking fountain would someone with his parentage have been required to use? (Not the whites only one half the time, and the blacks only one half the time).

 

[LakeAriel]

you too!

 

[Suzie Zoo]

I agree with this. I think referring to him as the first black president, it's from a civil rights history perspective. 45 yrs ago, which drinking fountain would someone with his parentage have been required to use? (Not the whites only one half the time, and the blacks only one half the time).

Blessedly, we aren't living in that society anymore, though. We've come so far from that. The next step is to not notice (or care) at all.

 

[LakeAriel]

Blessedly, we aren't living in that society anymore, though. We've come so far from that. The next step is to not notice (or care) at all.

I agree with this and this election will bring us one step closer to that day!!

 

[Suzie Zoo]

I agree with this and this election will bring us one step closer to that day!!

Thanks... that's all I'm really trying to say!

 

[disneyjunkie]

Blessedly, we aren't living in that society anymore, though. We've come so far from that. The next step is to not notice (or care) at all.

What's wrong with noticing color? As long as you don't use it to prejudge someone, why is it wrong?

We don't ignore gender, weight, height, hair color... yet we're suppose to be oblivious when it comes to skin color.

 

[smartestnumber5]

I don't get it.

I think people should identify the way that feels right to them. I *think* I am of 3/4+ Italian and 1/4- German ancestry. I call myself Italian. That is what I identify as. That is the culture that matters to me and that I am a part of.

Anyway, what I don't understand regarding this conversation about Obama is that people keep saying he isn't black/African-American because he has white ancestry. Umm, well I guess that means there are many fewer black/African-American people in the U.S. than we thought. After all, any person who we normally refer to as "black/African-American" who has descended from slaves is likely to have some white ancestry. And there are plenty of white people who, out of 100s of past ancestors, have 1 or 2 black ancestors.

Is this the one-drop rule in reverse? It used to be that one could not be counted as white if one had one drop of black blood. Now one can't count as black if one has one drop of white blood? How, then, should a person with dark brown skin who has 1 white ancestor out of 10 refer to herself? How about a person with peach colored skin who has 1 black ancestor out of 12?

Should we just all start calling ourselves mixed race and be done with it? Should we all get genetic testing so we can refer to ourselves with utmost accuracy?

 

[Suzie Zoo]

I'm not saying you can't literally notice it... but I think it should be noticed in the sense that you notice the color of someone's sweater. That it doesn't make a shred of difference about anything. It is what it is.

As for weight...well... I wish we didn't put so much emphasis on that either. Calling people fat, skinny, telling them they need to eat a cheeseburger.. all that stuff bugs me. But that's another thread

 

[eliza61]

I think what we are forgetting is that "Bi racial" is a relatively new designation.
For example. I am Africian American, my husband is Portugese (he is brown skinned because he's roots go back to Africa but his parents consider him full fledge Portuges or European). I have 2 sons who pretty much they consider themselves African American partly because on many forms and such there is just no designation for "black-European-American".

Also Remember Barak, who is about my age (late 40's) has been influenced by segregation and civil rights. Alot of dissers think it "was so long" ago but in reality it was not. When I was growing up any amount of "Africian" made you Black. Period. I think legally it was some thing like 1/8th percent made you full fledge black.
Barak was very fortunate that his maternal grandparents loved him in spite of his heritage, many interracial couples were not. So if a caucasian women fell in love with a black man often she was ostricized by her race (I'm talking in the 60's and earlier). I have many biracial childhood friends who consider themselves when asked Africian american simply because growing up that's the neighborhood they lived in, that's the side of the family they interacted with especially if they had African features like Barak.

 

[Nascia]

I agree with the pps. I work in social services and have two bi-racial children. None of the government forms (or any forms that I've seen for any organization) that ask for ethnic identification provide a choice for those that are bi-racial. They may allow for multiple responses, but bi-racial is definitely not on there. Additionally, they are both considered black or minority students in school and for the state tests. Historically, they would have been/ are considered black because they have 1 drop of African American blood.

 

[Suzie Zoo]

I don't care how Obama refers to himself. That wasn't my point. Because of comments on the other thread, I was just thinking about my niece and how it would hurt my brother if she called herself black.

I also think there's a huge difference between comparing the race of your distant relatives and the race of both of your parents. In Obama's case, the African connection is a lot greater than my niece's. Nobody in her family considers themselves African American.

 

[Suzie Zoo]

I agree with the pps. I work in social services and have two bi-racial children. None of the government forms (or any forms that I've seen for any organization) that ask for ethnic identification provide a choice for those that are bi-racial. They may allow for multiple responses, but bi-racial is definitely not on there. Additionally, they are both considered black or minority students in school and for the state tests. Historically, they would have been/ are considered black because they have 1 drop of African American blood.

That's very true.... I guess in some ways, the government and all the demographic studies perpetuate the need for labeling.

We should all just check "other"

(The baby in your sig is absolutely adorable!)

 

[disneyjunkie]

I don't care how Obama refers to himself. That wasn't my point. Because of comments on the other thread, I was just thinking about my niece and how it would hurt my brother if she called herself black.

I also think there's a huge difference between comparing the race of your distant relatives and the race of both of your parents. In Obama's case, the African connection is a lot greater than my niece's. Nobody in her family considers themselves African American.

Oh boy, two "debates" in one thread.