90 teens pregnant got me thinking

[disney_mommy]

Some one once said to me, low income people like that (the high school drop out, never trying to move up in a job), they're just not smart enough to come up with better things to do with their time, so they go to the bedroom.
Smart people, do productive things with their time, even in the home. And are also smart enough to realize they can't afford to have more children.

It's all too easy when living on welfare to "increase your income" by popping one more out.

There's so much wrong with that sentiment I don't know where to begin.

Yes, because we all know it's just the poor people who enjoy a good bonk.

FTW.

 

[EveDallas]

The problem is, we're not willing to pay the consequences of removing the money. No one wants to see roaming gangs of parentless, unwanted children, such as they have in countries without social safety nets. No one wants our citizens living in the garbage dumps, picking through the trash to survive. No one wants to see the skyrocketing levels of disease and crime that would result from the elimination of welfare.

And you know what? Even with all that, people would keep on having children. The only thing that's ever stopped people from having children has been wealth, security, and a high level of education.

If privation worked to make people stop having kids, countries like Niger would have the lowest birthrate, not the highest.

Alternatively, we could always model our society after a country like China, where only one child per family is allowed. Or, if we're not as egalitarian about it as China was, we could always target our efforts specifically at poor people. We could force them onto birth control and penalize them for having children and put them in work camps. But that would still mean giving up the freedoms we cherish and giving the state a great deal of power over citizen's lives.

It's a difficult problem, but other than improving schools, making sure kids are well nourished, and giving people opportunities for meaningful employment and continuing education... I'm not sure what we can do. I think the solutions are likely to be worse than the problem!

This is what comes to my mind everytime someone trots out the "Let's get rid of welfare" line. Do you really think that is going to stop people from having sex (and kids)? No. What it will do is drive up the numbers of homeless people, criminals, babies tossed into dumpsters, etc.

 

[MM27]

Even non-affluent people are allowed to have babies. News at 11.

I don't think the OP was saying that non-affluent people shouldn't be able to have babies. I think the thing that makes many people, myself included, upset is when people have baby after baby and don't think about the financial burden a baby causes because someone else will take care of it. I go to work every day and have money taken out of my paycheck so that people that have all of these kids that they can't take care of can have free healthcare, get free food and cheap or free housing.

I've had students, 9 year old girls, that have told me that their goal in life is to have babies because, "they (the government) pay you to stay home and take care of your baby." Do you think they just thought of that themselves?

So what's the solution? Mandatory sterilization for everyone under a certain income bracket?

I would love to see some people sterilized. Just because people can have babies doesn't mean they all should.


I don't buy the whole stuck in poverty and can't get out reason for people having more babies than they can afford. I have had students that came from nothing, but they worked their butts off in school and have been very successful. Why? Because they had a parent that knew if they took school seriously and made something of themselves that they wouldn't be stuck in the same situation as the parent.

What they need to start doing is linking welfare to parents being involved in their child's education. Don't get your kid to school, lose money. Don't take care of behavior issues, lose money. Then kids won't have to worry about being stuck in the same situation as their parents.

 

[DWGal210]

The problem is that welfare was not created to be the sole source of income for peoples whole lives, generation after generation. But I also agree that at this point, there's no easy solution. Since it's been available now for a number of years, it's transitioned from a policy to a "right" of sorts. Once something been around long enough, it's very hard to go back.

It does sadden me, of course, & it sucks but I thnk
at this point, it would take a monumental shift in some peoples minds to go from being on assistance full
time to getting the initiative to make their lives better. I'm not speakng of those who have severe disabilities & cannot support themselves, or those who use assistance for a time. I'm talking about those generations of people who have grown up not knowing any differently.

 

[luvsJack]

Some just don't see any way out of the welfare trap they have lived in all their lives.

Education will always be the key. They need to learn that there is another way to live and how they can achieve that. You will still have some that CHOOSE to live on welfare (all though, why anyone would choose it is beyond me) but many would want to achieve that break in the cycle.

 

[luvmy3]

Some just don't see any way out of the welfare trap they have lived in all their lives.

Education will always be the key. They need to learn that there is another way to live and how they can achieve that. You will still have some that CHOOSE to live on welfare (all though, why anyone would choose it is beyond me) but many would want to achieve that break in the cycle.

Because its so much easier to live off someone elses money instead of working hard to earn your own.
I grew up in a poor area, I knew many people on welfare, some used it as temporary help to get them to a place where they didn't need it. Unfortunately more were perfectly happy staying where they were, its a very sad reality.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

It's a tough one. I used to be a lot more idealistic until I started working at a school where this describes well over 90% of our families. Our school serves on of the largetst low income housing complexes in the four state area. It's hard to feel sorry for a family when they are living in a motel, but just go pregnant with yet another child they can't afford. Meanwhile our social worker drives them to appointments for their son, both boys get food for the weekends through the local food bank (which we give them at the end of the day), we bus them at our cost due to the homelessness act, despite the fact that they started out the year in a different district.

Meanwhile the parents are in and out of trouble with the law. They can't seem to afford a winter coat for their son. We gave them a coat for him, it was lost in one day. I though about going to Goodwill and getting him a coat, but decided that I was n't going to enable. He comes in smelling like an ashtray every day. I'm sorry, if you have money for cigarettes, you have money to go to Goodwill or Salvation Army or any other thrift store and get your kid a winter coat.

Our school and district provide a lot for these families. At least they have to volunteer to get Christmas assistance. But so many of these families don't appear to try. It sucks when parents care more aobut their next fix than their kids, and yet they still have more kids and we pay for it. The majority of our parents do not have a job. When the police did a warrant sweep in the complex recently, they took away a school bus full of people.

The ones who lose out are the kids, and I don't know what the solution is. I have heard several people suggest that if you are on welfare and then become pregnant again, welfare should not cover that child. To me, this sounds like a good idea, but at the same time, I would hate for the child to suffer for the parents' stupidity.

I have also heard people say that birth control should be provided for free. This goes up against my religious beliefs, but at the same time, I see the appeal. Unfrotunately it's a no win situation. Every solution has its drawbacks.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

And yes, education is key. I'm not saying my school is perfect, but they are working as hard as they can. We do interventions out the wazoo, more than any other school in our district. We have made AYP for the last two years despite our population and how low these kids are when they come to us.

Part of the problem is that the best schools means jack **** when you are moving around. We've had kids who have not spent more than two consecutive months at the same school. They move around all the time, dodging rent. It's not uncommon to have a kid who may qualify for special ed services, but doesn't get tested because they are never in a district long enough to complete the testing.

That's not to say that there aren't some crap schools in these neighborhoodds, because some of them are. But even good schools struggle when their population is so transient.

 

[RangerPooh]

This is just one reason that we NEED a Welfare Reform Act. People get into the system and don't even try to get themselves out. I see it a lot in the area that I live in. It's really sad.

I believe that here in WA you have a maximum of 5 years (in your entire lifetime) to receive welfare money. So I'm assuming that the concept is to assist you when you need it with the hope that you are doing your part to find employment and stablize your income/life. Now I don't know how many people find themselves homeless or still on food stamps following the end of their 5 years, but I could see some people trying to find ways to continue to receive money.

Honestly, I have no problem with people receiving food assistance. Food isn't cheap, formula needs to be bought for babies, kids need nutritious things to eat. But when you waste it on junk food I get upset. A bag of chips here, ice cream for dessert, this I don't mind, but a cart full of junk disgusts me.

Now we are far from wealthy, and have a growing family but I would never consider taking welfare money unless it was absolutely necessary. Personally I would rather have it there should be we absolutely need it, rather than waste it today and not have a cushion if things ever hit the fan. Far too many people use it because they can, instead of thinking about the"what if's" that can happen in life.

I do think that schools need to educate people on the use and availability of birth control. Obviously there are parents who aren't talking to their kids, and those who are setting the example of how to use the system...but prevention education is key. Promoting abstenance is fine, but teens will still ahve sex, so there needs ot be a discussion on birth control. They need to know that you can go to Planned parenthood and get condoms. I for one am in favor of making the pill available for free, think about the possible reduction in teenage parents. The ladies would still have to be examined to get it, but think of the power that they would now have over their bodies.

Sadly, those who plan to remain in the system will probably stay there regardless of what is put in action.

 

[ozarkmom]

I don't think the OP was saying that non-affluent people shouldn't be able to have babies. I think the thing that makes many people, myself included, upset is when people have baby after baby and don't think about the financial burden a baby causes because someone else will take care of it. I go to work every day and have money taken out of my paycheck so that people that have all of these kids that they can't take care of can have free healthcare, get free food and cheap or free housing.

I've had students, 9 year old girls, that have told me that their goal in life is to have babies because, "they (the government) pay you to stay home and take care of your baby." Do you think they just thought of that themselves?



I would love to see some people sterilized. Just because people can have babies doesn't mean they all should.


I don't buy the whole stuck in poverty and can't get out reason for people having more babies than they can afford. I have had students that came from nothing, but they worked their butts off in school and have been very successful. Why? Because they had a parent that knew if they took school seriously and made something of themselves that they wouldn't be stuck in the same situation as the parent.

What they need to start doing is linking welfare to parents being involved in their child's education. Don't get your kid to school, lose money. Don't take care of behavior issues, lose money. Then kids won't have to worry about being stuck in the same situation as their parents.

Thank you so very much! You get it!

 

[ozarkmom]

I live in a small town. I'm not seeing homeless people what we have here are alot of people that abuse the system. I have alot of knowledge of this because of my former job and young people and even some my age that I know personally. In one instance a 17 yr. old became pregnant. Her mom said they were dropping her from their insurance so she could go on medicaid!!! So instead of her parents insurance with them paying the deductable the taxpayers picked up the tab. She still lives with the parents and gets wic I'm not sure if she still gets food stamps but she did tell my daughter she was at one time. While the girl can no longer be on medicaid the child is. My daughter knows several young unmarried moms who go to school to get the check. Yes after everything is deducted several of them get a nice "refund" each semester. One young woman she was in school with lives her children's dad but doesn't marry because of the assistance she gets! Most of the other girls we know still live with their parents. These girls have nice cars, cool clothes etc. and we paid for the birth of the babies and continue to pay. I know of some grown women that are getting assistance and have jobs that pay them under the table and they live very well. So yeah my husband and I have had to work for everything we have and do for our children and the current abuse of the system irritates me at times.

 

[MrsPete]

How do you know that the father doesn't have a good job? I get that he might not have a high-paying job, but people raise families on modest incomes all the time. To suggest that people not raise a family if the father isn't a high wage earner is not a road we should travel down, in my opinion.

Occam's razor: The simplest solution is usually correct.

Yeah, the father's job might not be as dismal as it appears, the mother could be weeks away from finishing her MD, the pair could have inherited great wealth, they might be married but not sharing a name . . . but those things probably aren't true. Likely the obvious, the simplest explaination is true.

I am gathering that smart people just don't have sex because they can come up with "better" things to do? I am wondering what those better things are that us middle class folks are supposed to be taking part in.

While I don't agree with the way the original sentiment was expressed, we all know what was meant: Plenty of studies have shown that people with a low socio-economic status are less likely to use birth control, whereas middle and upper class people who -- for lack of a better phrase -- "have more to live for" (or maybe those who have more to lose) are more likely to be careful and avoid conceiving an unplanned baby.

The problem is, we're not willing to pay the consequences of removing the money. No one wants to see roaming gangs of parentless, unwanted children, such as they have in countries without social safety nets. No one wants our citizens living in the garbage dumps, picking through the trash to survive. No one wants to see the skyrocketing levels of disease and crime that would result from the elimination of welfare.

Add this: Many of those children could be placed with adoptive families . . . IF we were willing to take the children out of the home before the birth families have had 3-4 years to influence them badly. But instead every birth parent, no matter how obviously unprepared or unable to provide care, gets quite a few chances before losing custody.

This is what comes to my mind everytime someone trots out the "Let's get rid of welfare" line. Do you really think that is going to stop people from having sex (and kids)? No. What it will do is drive up the numbers of homeless people, criminals, babies tossed into dumpsters, etc.

No, but I think that if welfare wasn't available as a safety net, more families would refuse to let birth fathers off the hook for providing for their children. Also, I think some girls would see their friends having trouble without welfare money and would say, "Maybe I will refuse to have sex without a condom."

I believe that here in WA you have a maximum of 5 years (in your entire lifetime) to receive welfare money.

That's one of those things that sounds good in theory . . . but in reality, if your "welfare time" is all used up, you can still get food stamps, free school lunches, Medicare (or is it Medicade? I always confuse the two), free health care, low-income housing. Welfare is just ONE of many financial benefits.

. . . Most of the other girls we know still live with their parents. These girls have nice cars, cool clothes etc. and we paid for the birth of the babies and continue to pay.

Of course, these girls are stuck living with their parents -- they can't move out and maintain anything like this standard of living, so they're losing age-appropriate indepenence. I don't think most of these girls are doing as well as it appears they are; it's just irritating to those who are working hard and paying their own way to see it.

 

[palavra]

Why waste your time worrying about what others do? I don't care for the fact that there are drug dealers out there driving much nicer cars than I have, but they made that choice for their lives, and I made another choice. It really is all about choice, and, much as we might not like the choices others make, there really isn't much we can do about it.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

This is how I look at it....

Everyone wants it to be "FIXED" which is impossible. It is like striving for Utopia.

Until both parties come together to manage it better you will get more of the same.

My cynical self looks at the "divide" as job security for each side. As long as nothing is repaired then you can go on complaining and saying "how you are going to fix it".

 

[PaulaSB12]

So what's the solution? Mandatory sterilization for everyone under a certain income bracket?

You tried that once before and it was a disaster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#United_States

 

[Muushka]

I believe Johnson's War on Poverty was the single most destructive piece of legislation to the American family that was ever written.

As someone who was brought up IN poverty (not just living near it) and prior to the great war on poverty ( experiencing hunger, lack of basic supplies...I could go on but you get the picture) it was the absolute best way to prevent it for myself and my sisters. We lived it. We knew we didn't want it. We survived it. We are better people because of it.

 

[luvsJack]

Because its so much easier to live off someone elses money instead of working hard to earn your own.
I grew up in a poor area, I knew many people on welfare, some used it as temporary help to get them to a place where they didn't need it. Unfortunately more were perfectly happy staying where they were, its a very sad reality.

It may be a easy way to get a check but its not an easy way to live by any stretch of the imagination.

I would love to see some people sterilized. Just because people can have babies doesn't mean they all should.


I don't buy the whole stuck in poverty and can't get out reason for people having more babies than they can afford. I have had students that came from nothing, but they worked their butts off in school and have been very successful. Why? Because they had a parent that knew if they took school seriously and made something of themselves that they wouldn't be stuck in the same situation as the parent.

What they need to start doing is linking welfare to parents being involved in their child's education. Don't get your kid to school, lose money. Don't take care of behavior issues, lose money. Then kids won't have to worry about being stuck in the same situation as their parents.

Forcing sterilization? Really? It will be a sad, sad day in the US if it ever comes to that.

Yes, some people rasied in poverty see a way out and work their butts off to get there. Just as some children are raised by a drug addict and never use drugs themselves. But, it doesn't work that way for everyone. Most children will return to "their roots" and will live in the same cycle as their parents. Their parents don't stress education to their children, they don't encourage them to get out of poverty and so the cycle continues. -

My daughter knows several young unmarried moms who go to school to get the check. Yes after everything is deducted several of them get a nice "refund" each semester. One young woman she was in school with lives her children's dad but doesn't marry because of the assistance she gets! Most of the other girls we know still live with their parents. These girls have nice cars, cool clothes etc. and we paid for the birth of the babies and continue to pay. I know of some grown women that are getting assistance and have jobs that pay them under the table and they live very well. So yeah my husband and I have had to work for everything we have and do for our children and the current abuse of the system irritates me at times.

If any of these young ladies are not getting an education, it will only last a short while. They have to be passing, which means they have to be learning. They cannot drop classes or drop out after they get the refund.

 

[Pyrate_Pryncess]

I am 30. DH is 32. We have 2 kids ages 8 and 4. DH is military. There have been times that I have had no choice but to go back to work. I don't mind it really, I enjoy working. One of the times I went back to work I took a part time job at 7-11. Loved that job! Mostly great people. Here is what I saw that really ticked me off.

Everyday around lunch time groups of young ladys would come in.....ranging in age from around 18 to maybe 24. In almost every group there would be someone with an EBT card (food stamps). That person would tell her friends to "buy whatever they wanted and she would take their cash from them". I would ring up sodas, snacks and candy for them and watch as they would hand the card holder their cash! Meanwhile the card holders were always decked out in jewlery, nails and hair done professionally and the coolest shoes! Bothered the heck out of me because even with me working a part time job I couldnt do that and I didnt think it was fair to be mis-using the system like that. For me, if I could get foodstamps I would buy MEAT and veggies! I would love to be able to afford steaks and roasts but I cant so to see someone doing that urks me!

Another case of living off of the state is my own cousins. He works at a gas station making minimum wage. She doesnt work at all and they have 6 kids under 6 years old! She wont go on the pill because she says she doesnt want to get fat!!!! She has said that she will never have to work because they will always fall under the poverty line with all of those kids and that she doesnt mind it at all. She feels like for some reason she is owed everything that she gets. She gets food stamps, a check every month, lives in a decent place under section 8 housing AND gets free daycare which she uses! ARE YOU KIDDING ME? They get all that but still have to come borrow money from everyone in the family! UGH! We have told her that she needs to work, thats why the state covers her daycare costs.


I have no problems with people being on food stamps or getting aid from the state but I think there should be a time limit! I don't think that you should be able to stay on the state for longer than a year. And I firmly believe that if you are getting free childcare that you need to prove that you are working.

That is just my 2 cents on the subject........

 

[MrsPete]

I believe Johnson's War on Poverty was the single most destructive piece of legislation to the American family that was ever written.

As someone who was brought up IN poverty (not just living near it) and prior to the great war on poverty ( experiencing hunger, lack of basic supplies...I could go on but you get the picture) it was the absolute best way to prevent it for myself and my sisters. We lived it. We knew we didn't want it. We survived it. We are better people because of it.

I was born after -- not long after -- Johnson's attempt to gift people out of poverty, but I was also raised IN poverty.

Why was I motivated to get out? I think it was because I was FIRST GENERATION poor. The idea that work is optional and other people would take care of us wasn't bred in our bones. We had examples within our family of hard-working people, and we saw clearly that we were in our predicament because of a few bad choices my parents had made -- we didn't think the whole world lived like we did.

Out of five siblings, only one lives the same hand-to-mouth lifestyle we did growing up -- and his circumstances aren't quite as severe, only because he has no children.

 

[KadysMom]

I know lots of girls with a few kids, all different fathers, on welfare, food stamps, free daycare.. The whole nine. But with each child comes a "pay raise". When I had my DD, I qualified for services, but I didnt take them. I worked, and struggled, but we made it. Now DH, DD9 and I are all stronger for it. We dont struggle like we did, and I am proud. Now, my SIL has twins and she quit her job because she would get money from welfare. So when she comes to us for money, we just say no way! Quit smoking cigarettes, GET A JOB!