6 year old suspended for pointing his finger

[pacrosby]

A lot of schools suspend if they've gone up the 'ladder' - conduct notices, in school suspension, etc. It's totally possible at that age to understand. I think it's completely selling kids short to think that the average 6 year old can't comprehend "We don't do this at school" if his PARENTS are backing up the school rules at home.

Not to mention at that age suspensions aren't just to send a message to the KID but to the PARENTS as well.

Chances are his parents think "Oh, it's just a boy being a boy" or "it's no big deal" which isn't helping that kid at all (obviously) learn that there are situations where certain behaviors are not tolerated. It doesn't so much matter what the child did so much as he kept doing it despite being told no several times - most schools have rules about insubordination.

Actually I didn't say he didn't comprehend the directive. I said he was a 6 yo boy and 6 yo boys are immature and impulsive. And they tend to like to point their fingers, or a stick, or a crayon, or a lego, and go pow pow. Again the parents have NO control over the boy's behavior at school. (btw I have 3 boys and I'm a fairly strict PIA mother....still, it's not always as easy and straight forward as it may seem it should be)

That said...I missed the fact that the parents are suing. That's interesting and certainly suggests that they may be lousy parents with a poorly behaved kid. Of course they may be good parents with an immature, impulsive 6 yo boy who aren't particularly pleased with the way the school department has handled this. I'm not there. I don't know. I think, to be fair, we need to consider both possibilities (although yes, I realize, the DIS isn't at all concerned about fairness ).

 

[punkin]

Actually I didn't say he didn't comprehend the directive. I said he was a 6 yo boy and 6 yo boys are immature and impulsive. And like I said above, the parents have no control over the kid's behavior at school.

That said...I missed the fact that the parents are suing (sorry, didn't read the article ) That's interesting and certainly suggests that they may be lousy parents with a poorly behaved kid. OR they may be good parents with an immature, impulsive 6 yo boy who aren't particularly pleased with the way the school department has handled this. I'm not there. I don't know. I think, to be fair, we need to consider both possibilities (although yes, I realize, the DIS isn't at all concerned about fairness ).

They are suing to get the suspension removed from the child's record. I don't think they are suing for damages (I could have missed something though).

 

[pacrosby]

They are suing to get the suspension removed from the child's record. I don't think they are suing for damages (I could have missed something though).

ok...nevermind. That seems perfectly reasonable given the charge.

 

[luvmy3]

Certain rules just seem to be there to set children up for failure. Boys WILL point fingers to pretend to shoot. You cannot make them not do it. My BIL refused to get his son any violent toy. They were very hippy dippy, green, tree hugging vegetarians. The child would pick up sticks or use his finger to point and shoot. That's what they do (at this age, anyway. I would not be saying the same thing if the child was 10).

There will always be exceptions, there will always be kids who will break rules, but that doesn't mean they are there to set children up for failure. I have 3 kids, and while they are not perfect they have certainly been able to understand that there are rules in place and you follow them, even when you don't want to. Kids, even at the age of 6 are capable of understanding -don't play shoot your friend while at school, the same way they know not talk in class, or scream down the hallway.
My dses would use our snorkel tubes as guns long before we allowed gun toys. Now they have an arsenal of nerf guns, and even their own BB guns. They have always known not to pretend to play guns while at school

 

[U2_rocks!]

We don't know what the other incidents were leading up to this, so it's hard to say whether suspension was warranted or not.

Just as an example, what if this little boy was being a bit of a bully for months, and his way of threatening another child was to pretend to shoot them with his finger (kind of like "watch out buddy, I'm coming for you next")? Yes, extreme for a 6 year old. But I'm just saying that we don't know what came before, and we don't know what this shooting might represent - it may not be all innocent play.

If indeed it was just innocent play the school has been trying to stop and the kid just keeps doing it, then I don't know - yes he broke the rules, but I think those rules are dumb to begin with.

 

[punkin]

I just quickly glanced over the article again, and it looks like the parents are "appealing" the suspension decision and that sounds like through the school board to me not through the courts. Someone with better reading comprehension can correct me.

 

[wiigirl]

he should be expelled and his finger confiscated by the government

Totally...

 

[Agri]

There will always be exceptions, there will always be kids who will break rules, but that doesn't mean they are there to set children up for failure. I have 3 kids, and while they are not perfect they have certainly been able to understand that there are rules in place and you follow them, even when you don't want to. Kids, even at the age of 6 are capable of understanding -don't play shoot your friend while at school, the same way they know not talk in class, or scream down the hallway.
My dses would use our snorkel tubes as guns long before we allowed gun toys. Now they have an arsenal of nerf guns, and even their own BB guns. They have always known not to pretend to play guns while at school

Exactly. Also, it seems harsh to have the "no pew pew hand is a gun play" rule, but it's an early indoctrination into how serious schools take guns and gun play. I think it would be silly to allow gun play when they're 5 or 6 and then arbitrarily decide an age where it's suddenly not appropriate because "it could mean something" - especially when kids as young as 3 and 4 have brought guns to school "to show their friends." I think it would be far more confusing (and difficult for everyone involved) to essentially tell kids that something that was harmless in first or second grade is now SERIOUS BUSINESS in third grade.

I guess I also see as just another thing that you can do at home but you can't do at school. Kids 'know' they can't run around barefoot or naked at school, can't just get up and play in the middle of a lesson, etc. If a child can handle other basic rules that might differ at home, the same expectation should be there for gun play whether it's something "little boys just do" or not.

 

[luvsJack]

Not allowing a kid to point his finger and say "POW" is not now nor will it ever stop violence in school or guns being brought to school or mentally ill people storming in with guns and shooting up schools. Its not going to fix the problem.

The rule is stupid. The "consequences" are stupid. Plain and simple.

ALL children (especially boys) will pick up a block, a stick, a rock or their finger and say "pow, pow" at some point in their lives of playing pretend. Its called using their imagination! It used to be what we WANTED kids to do.

Kid need to understand that school rules are to be followed and that there are consequences for not following the rules. BUT, there should be some common sense to the rules that are made and that needs to come from the adults.

I find it ridiculous that not one person has ever been shot by anyone and the ultimate reason be "because he was allowed to point his finger and say pow as a kid". Its been because of music and video games--but those are still around (not saying it IS the fault of music or video games), its been said that its because of violent movies--no rules against those, its been said that its a lack of parenting--no new rules/laws about parents taking responsibility for their kids' actions. What new rule do we make and enforce to prevent violence in schools--no pointing a finger and saying POW. Yep. That ought to work

 

[lovin'fl]

never mind

 

[badblackpug]

Something similar happened to my nephew in 2nd grade. He a group of boys were playing Star Wars on the playground and pointing finger at each other and saying "pyoo, pyoo." The teacher had a conversation with the boys and also had a conversation with my sister (and I'm assuming the other parents) My sister told my nephew, "You aren't allowed to pretend guns at school, it's against the rules, you will get in trouble next time." ...and it was done. No more incidences.

I think a 6 year old is perfectly capable of understanding and following rules. I have a 4 year old, she goes to preschool, she is able to follow the rules there. It seems that at least 2 conversations occurred regarding this behavior, one with the child and one with the parents warning that there would be a suspension if the behavior continued. I don't if there was any progressive discipline or not, but it does seem that the school did attempt to resolve this issue without suspension.

 

[punkin]

People who are posting that 6 year olds should be able to follow rules; you do understand that he was suspended for "threatening to shoot a student" not for not following rules. You think a "pow pow" from a finger waved by a 6 year old is grounds for having that on your school records?

 

[vacationer1954]

Nothing will ever stop anything or fix anything. That's not the way things work. You have to do lot of little things that each do a little good. Then all together they will reduce something or make something better.

 

[luvsJack]

Something similar happened to my nephew in 2nd grade. He a group of boys were playing Star Wars on the playground and pointing finger at each other and saying "pyoo, pyoo." The teacher had a conversation with the boys and also had a conversation with my sister (and I'm assuming the other parents) My sister told my nephew, "You aren't allowed to pretend guns at school, it's against the rules, you will get in trouble next time." ...and it was done. No more incidences.

I think a 6 year old is perfectly capable of understanding and following rules. I have a 4 year old, she goes to preschool, she is able to follow the rules there. It seems that at least 2 conversations occurred regarding this behavior, one with the child and one with the parents warning that there would be a suspension if the behavior continued. I don't if there was any progressive discipline or not, but it does seem that the school did attempt to resolve this issue without suspension.

Of course they can understand rules. But that doesn't mean they are going to think about them and follow them 100% of the time and the fact is this is a ridiculous rule.

People who are posting that 6 year olds should be able to follow rules; you do understand that he was suspended for "threatening to shoot a student" not for not following rules. You think a "pow pow" from a finger waved by a 6 year old is grounds for having that on your school records?

This is true. They didn't say it was a matter of not following rules, they said he threatened another student. Uhmmm--no.

 

[sam_gordon]

Do we know that the girl he was pointing his finger at knew he was playing? Keep in mind, this happened the week after Sandy Hook. The kids may/may not have known about the shooting, that kids their age were shot and killed. Then you have a boy pointing a finger at a girl (who knows if he said anything) and said "pow"?

If this was a one time incident, I'd agree it doesn't deserve suspension. Apparently there's a history of this kid "threatening" others. Maybe he was playing if he said "I'm going to shoot you". It appears the child and one parent were told he could not do that. He continued to do so. Do we know what steps were taken previously? No, but they apparently didn't work. So what's next?

 

[badblackpug]

People who are posting that 6 year olds should be able to follow rules; you do understand that he was suspended for "threatening to shoot a student" not for not following rules. You think a "pow pow" from a finger waved by a 6 year old is grounds for having that on your school records?

The child and the parents had been spoken to about this behavior in the past. The child was told not to do it again, and the parents were informed that if the child did it again he could face suspension. The child did it again and he was suspended. He broke the rules, he faced the consequences.

There are rules in my kids' school I,or they, don't like or don't agree with, but part of attending that school is adhering to the rules. If the school tells you you aren't allowed to point your finger and pretend it's a gun, you're not allowed to point your finger and pretend it's a gun. Is it a stupid rule? Maybe, but part of enrolling kids in a particular school is agreeing to follow the rules. It does sound, to me, like he was given adequate warning.

For instance, my 4 year old doesn't nap, but her school has nap time. She knows she has to lay on her cot during nap time and be quiet. Does she agree with it? No., she would rather play, but the rule is during nap time she must lay quietly on her cot, so she does, awake, the whole time, every day. I don't make her nap at home, but she knows the rules at home and school may be different.

I think the finger pointing thing comes from the fact that while some children may be using it as just play, like my nephew, but some children may also use it as a threatening gesture, as in "I'm going to shoot you," because they are angry at another child. I would think that it would be just about impossible to explain the subtle differences to a 6 year old, so it's better to just say, "No shooting gestures."

Also, in the wake of Sandy Hook, many children may, indeed, be scared or worried about school shootings, and this gesture, given recent events, may be frightening to another 6 year old.

 

[badblackpug]

Of course they can understand rules. But that doesn't mean they are going to think about them and follow them 100% of the time and the fact is this is a ridiculous rule.



This is true. They didn't say it was a matter of not following rules, they said he threatened another student. Uhmmm--no.

..but whether or not one agrees with the rule, it is still a rule and has to be followed. There are quite a few rules I find stupid, that have to be followed. My son is in middle school, there are certain door they have to enter the school through (a 6th grade, 7th grade, 8th grade entrance) I think this is stupid, especially since the 7th grade entrance is about 6 houses away from my front door, and the 6th grade entrance is requires him to walk another block. It's a stupid rule, but it's a rule and he has to follow it or face the consequences.

...and, no, children won't follow the rules all the time, I've got 4 kids and I am painfully aware of that, that is why there are consequences to not following the rules, to make them think twice before they do it again.

 

[luvsJack]

..but whether or not one agrees with the rule, it is still a rule and has to be followed. There are quite a few rules I find stupid, that have to be followed. My son is in middle school, there are certain door they have to enter the school through (a 6th grade, 7th grade, 8th grade entrance) I think this is stupid, especially since the 7th grade entrance is about 6 houses away from my front door, and the 6th grade entrance is requires him to walk another block. It's a stupid rule, but it's a rule and he has to follow it or face the consequences.

...and, no, children won't follow the rules all the time, I've got 4 kids and I am painfully aware of that, that is why there are consequences to not following the rules, to make them think twice before they do it again.

Suspending a child for pointing a finger and calling it "threatening" is ridiculous.

And again, they didn't exactly say that the punishment was for continually not following the rules, they said it was for threatening another student.

This is another case of ridiculous reactions to things that are happening in our world. This child is no more likely to pull a gun on someone someday than the little girl he pointed his finger at is. He was using his imagination to play, something kids have done since the beginning of time.

While I can see where you are coming from on following rules, I can fully support the parents acting against the school. This kid in now way should have a school record following him around that says he was suspended for threatening a kid with his finger.

The reasons for this and other stupid rules is that it makes someone feel like something is being done to help combat violence in schools when in reality it is doing absolutely nothing. Violent video games stand a bigger chance of being the cause of school violence than pointing a finger at someone.

Maybe if these parents and other parents raise enough stink, the school systems will make a few changes in these ridiculous rules.

While I don't teach my kids to go around breaking rules, I don't teach them to be sheep either. And I teach them to stand up for what they believe them. Stupid rules do not have to just be followed, they can be changed. If this was my kid, I would be shouting from the roof tops or letting my lawyer do it to let everyone know how silly this is and unjust it is to the kid.

 

[pacrosby]

People who are posting that 6 year olds should be able to follow rules; you do understand that he was suspended for "threatening to shoot a student" not for not following rules. You think a "pow pow" from a finger waved by a 6 year old is grounds for having that on your school records?

And I hope they are consistent. If little Johnny is told X number of times to stop coloring on little Susie's paper and he keeps doing it, he should be suspended for not following the rules too, right? And the kid who keeps refusing to throw away his milk carton at lunch? And the kid who keeps coughing without covering his mouth? I mean, rules are rules. And when kids don't follow them the punishment must be harsh to show them that we're not fooling around.

Or are only the rules against playing "shoot 'em up pow pow" worth suspension? And the reason for that would be???????

 

[pacrosby]

While I don't teach my kids to go around breaking rules, I don't teach them to be sheep either. And I teach them to stand up for what they believe them. Stupid rules do not have to just be followed, they can be changed. If this was my kid, I would be shouting from the roof tops or letting my lawyer do it to let everyone know how silly this is and unjust it is to the kid.

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