3 kids with Autism/ADHD needing separate DAS?

[rjthkids]

And posting on the internet is always hard--- I don't want to come across as sounding entitled. We have never minded waiting--- ever. Our use of the old GAC system wasn't ever designed to avoid wait times, it was for access (visual impairment; mobility/stamina issues). For years we barely used the thing because we were able to carefully plan our way to navigate around any pitfalls. I am always of the philosophy you don't use accomodations you don't actually need. And then we had some significant deterioration in medical conditions and a lot of hospital time under our belt and....well...things changed. And they have continued to get even more medically challenging since our last trip, not less. No one "owes" us anything, much less Disney world (!).....but we used the DAS system the way it was intended to be used and I appreciated it very much. But if the DAS system is designed to keep families together, I would hate for my family to find that they cannot use the DAS system simply because one of the two girls might not be medically stable enough to be in the same place at the same time. That they have already found a solution to the problem at DL makes me hopeful that they will transfer that solution to DW, but if it doesn't get aorund to it by the time we go again, we will do what we always do and roll with the punches.

I do appreciate the heads up.

 

[SMD]

And posting on the internet is always hard--- I don't want to come across as sounding entitled. We have never minded waiting--- ever. Our use of the old GAC system wasn't ever designed to avoid wait times, it was for access (visual impairment; mobility/stamina issues). For years we barely used the thing because we were able to carefully plan our way to navigate around any pitfalls. I am always of the philosophy you don't use accomodations you don't actually need. And then we had some significant deterioration in medical conditions and a lot of hospital time under our belt and....well...things changed. And they have continued to get even more medically challenging since our last trip, not less. No one "owes" us anything, much less Disney world (!).....but we used the DAS system the way it was intended to be used and I appreciated it very much. But if the DAS system is designed to keep families together, I would hate for my family to find that they cannot use the DAS system simply because one of the two girls might not be medically stable enough to be in the same place at the same time. That they have already found a solution to the problem at DL makes me hopeful that they will transfer that solution to DW, but if it doesn't get aorund to it by the time we go again, we will do what we always do and roll with the punches.

I do appreciate the heads up.

It's never been said that DAS is designed to keep families together. It is to provide access to attractions. If your DAS cards are split 5 and 5, and one DAS holder leaves the park with a companion, only having 5 on the second DAS does not prevent the other 8 members of your party from accessing the attraction. You would need to split up 5 and 3 with the guests not covered by the DAS using the standby line or obtaining an FP. I guess it would be an issue for a family in that situation where there was 1 parent and all 7 other members of the party were 7 years or younger and therefore couldn't ride alone. But that 7 years and 14 years old age restrictions are applies to all guests, so I don't see why Disney would need to make any exceptions there. The way to correct the issue would probably be to trade in the DAS for one that covers the 8 people in the park at the time.

 

[rjthkids]

That would be exactly my problem. Because my kids are too young to be sent into a standby line without an adult. I only have three kids over 7, one of whom is one of the DAS holders--- so that leaves two, one of whom has SN of his own that have never been "DAS/GAC" acommodation necessary, but while his asperger's/autism don't involve a difficulty waiting in lines it most definitely involves a hefty dose of anxiety separated from his parents in a place like Disneyworld. He wouldn't be able to do it. And the 8 yo has no problems waiting in line either but has her own strictly "health only" reasons for needing to be in proximity to her supervising adult.

So the three older than 7 yo can go on a ride-car ahead/behind/in front of an adult, but not stand in line by themselves. So for us, yes--- dividing up our party on a DAS card like that would be an inability to use a DAS card if the other DAS card holder was incapacitated for some reason--- which stands a high likelihood of happening given their current circumstances. And certainly there are plenty of rides that our configuration of young-children-to-parent has meant weren't logistically possible, but plenty that have ride cars big enough to allow one parent to be on the ride car with all the youger set of kids.

And again, it seems that Disneyland has figured out a way to meet the needs of parties of with multiple DAS users to have the flexibility to do just what I am talking about doing---- which is have the ability of fluctuate who-goes-with-who depending on the circumstance of the moment. So clearly I am not asking for anythign Disney thinks is unreasonable--- they just haven't brought it online in FL. If there was no goal of keeping a family together, they wouldn't bother to list a "party total" at all, they *would* just leave it at DAS holder+1 companion. But that isn't what they do--- in allowing a single DAS holder to list *everyone* in their party in the total # they are in fact making it a goal to give people the option of keeping everyone together. Unless you have more than one DAS holder in your party in WDW. Which again, I am not saying we are entitled to. I'm not going to lose sleep over it or cry about it. But if they are figuring out how to make what I am looking for work at another one of their properties *and* they list a total # of people who ar allowed to accompany a DAS holder at the size of the family/group that accompanied the DAS holder into the park, then I have to say that Disney is in fact striving to allow families to stay together as part of the DAS program utilization. I am expressing the wish/hope they can continue to work to bring a system to WDW that will meet our family's need and allow us to do just that.

 

[SueM in MN]

Just to clarify - if the group has only one person DAS is issued to, there will usually be no need to divide your group.
The usual number DAS is issued to is a total of 6 - 5 plus the person with a disability. If the party is larger than that, authorizing a larger number is an exception that needs to be approved by a supervisor. All members of the group also need to be present at Guest Relations at the time the DAS is issued.

Even if a DAS is issued for more than 6, that doesn't guarantee your whole group will always be together. Since DAS can only be used for attractions the DAS holder is going on, it can't be used for things the DAS holder is too small for or can't go on for other reasons.

There has never been a guarantee that your entire party would be staying together in all circumstances - either with GAC or with DAS.
Guests with wheelchairs or other mobility devices are typically split up. It can be because the waiting area for special boarding is small (example - Buzz Lightyear and Haunted Mansion if you need the accessible boarding areas).
It can be because there is only one companion seat per wheelchair spot (almost any show or parade).
Or it can be the size of the accessible ride car (examples include Small World and Mexico with a total of 6 people plus one wheelchair and Toy Story Mania with the ride car pod holding 6 guests).

Groups larger than 6 have always been split into smaller groups on those attractions

 

[aaarcher86]

That would be exactly my problem. Because my kids are too young to be sent into a standby line without an adult. I only have three kids over 7, one of whom is one of the DAS holders--- so that leaves two, one of whom has SN of his own that have never been "DAS/GAC" acommodation necessary, but while his asperger's/autism don't involve a difficulty waiting in lines it most definitely involves a hefty dose of anxiety separated from his parents in a place like Disneyworld. He wouldn't be able to do it. And the 8 yo has no problems waiting in line either but has her own strictly "health only" reasons for needing to be in proximity to her supervising adult.

So the three older than 7 yo can go on a ride-car ahead/behind/in front of an adult, but not stand in line by themselves. So for us, yes--- dividing up our party on a DAS card like that would be an inability to use a DAS card if the other DAS card holder was incapacitated for some reason--- which stands a high likelihood of happening given their current circumstances. And certainly there are plenty of rides that our configuration of young-children-to-parent has meant weren't logistically possible, but plenty that have ride cars big enough to allow one parent to be on the ride car with all the youger set of kids.

And again, it seems that Disneyland has figured out a way to meet the needs of parties of with multiple DAS users to have the flexibility to do just what I am talking about doing---- which is have the ability of fluctuate who-goes-with-who depending on the circumstance of the moment. So clearly I am not asking for anythign Disney thinks is unreasonable--- they just haven't brought it online in FL. If there was no goal of keeping a family together, they wouldn't bother to list a "party total" at all, they *would* just leave it at DAS holder+1 companion. But that isn't what they do--- in allowing a single DAS holder to list *everyone* in their party in the total # they are in fact making it a goal to give people the option of keeping everyone together. Unless you have more than one DAS holder in your party in WDW. Which again, I am not saying we are entitled to. I'm not going to lose sleep over it or cry about it. But if they are figuring out how to make what I am looking for work at another one of their properties *and* they list a total # of people who ar allowed to accompany a DAS holder at the size of the family/group that accompanied the DAS holder into the park, then I have to say that Disney is in fact striving to allow families to stay together as part of the DAS program utilization. I am expressing the wish/hope they can continue to work to bring a system to WDW that will meet our family's need and allow us to do just that.

I don't think you're being unreasonable in hoping for the DL system at WDW. I think we all think it'd be easier, and there's been talk of it happening but no time line given. I think the harder part at WDW is that since guests obtain timed at the ride, so all the rides need whatever tools they use to attach times to tickets vs 5 or so kiosks at DL. I'm sure they'll figure it out eventually.

I get your frustration with so many kids and a multitude of special needs. Since we all know the reality is that they need to accommodate the individual AND are able to place restrictions to avoid abuse we just need to figure out a way to make it work for our situations.

I'd definitely investigate any changes before your next trip. Who knows what'll be different at that point.

 

[rjthkids]

I think I am miscommunicating and derailing the thread. <3 This is coming up precisely because of a desire to "split up". The issue is that under some arbitrary splitting of our party between two DAS it prevents us from splitting up according the needs of our party *when otherwise we would have been able to stay together if we had one DAS party member*. Meaning if we had 10 of us and only one DAS member, if the DAS member was ill or needed to stay behind then the DAS wouldn't be used, as expected. And if we had only one DAS member and all of us were together, we could stay together or as parents we could divide and split parents+assorted children through a ride line as we saw fit, or through different attractions according to our family needs. Non-DAS party members who were not with the DAS member would obviously not be using DAS-related services, while those with the DAS party member would.

In the case of having two party members who qualify for a DAS, one is essentially needing to give up use of DAS services they would otherwise qualify for & otherwise receive because/when/if splitting party size does not reflect their actual group *when the actual group would be able to stay together if the party size was accurately listed*. I don't need each DAS to show ten but we would need each one to show 8 in order ot reflect that there will be times where one parent is needing to disappear with one DAS qualifying child, and which child is doing the disappearing will depend on the individual needs of the DAS qualifying children. My youngest's reasons for "needing" a DAS don't disappear just because she has an older sister who also needs one and vice-versa. It means *not having the same access that would be otherwise provided if they were the only one in our party of 10 who qualified*. They will have less access *not because we are a family of 10, but because there is another DAS user within our party of 10 (or 8 or 7 or whatever the split might end up being)*, and that is what I am speaking to. I am not speaking to times/places that would otherwise be requiring a party to be divided, but times when a family member must forgo access provided by DAS *only because the DAS shows a party size that in not in fact accurate to the party size.*

Disney seems to be recognizing this as a problem if they have corrected for it at Disneyland. The solution at Disneyland actually completley eliminates this as a problem; and it is a problem specific to groups that have more than DAS qualifying member. I am glad to find out from this thread that it is now in fact a problem because it was not the last time we went to Disney World and I would have had no idea that it had become a problem. I am hopeful that they will bring the Disneyland solution to DisneyWorld.

Thank you aaarcher. I am not trying to sound unreasonable. We are used to going with the flow and being flexible. It will be whatever it will be and we always manage to figure out how to have a good time! Our next trip will be no different!

 

[SueM in MN]

We understand what you are trying to communicate.
And, we understand that there are times when your children's needs make flexibility necessary. We do truly get that.

Unfortunately, not everyone was playing by the rules and their cheating is causing problems for people who are trying to.

Within a week after DAS was put into use, people started posting 'hints' on Social Media and the internet about how to get basically continual DAS Return Times.
NOTE: We Moderators on this Board deleted any of these 'hints' as people tried to post them to avoid providing any assistance at cheating. I am only talking about them now because Disney has put things into place to try to address them.

The biggest one was getting multiple DAS cards for their entire group so they could have 2 (or more) DAS Return Times for their entire group at all times. This led to Disney dividing groups when there was more than one DAS in a group. Hard for people who had more than one DAS user and were trying to play by the rules.

Another 'hint' that was quickly posted online was people writing in their own DAS Return Times since the times and other information was handwritten on the slot on the DAS.
Disney attempted several things to fix this, including using different color pens at different attractions and stamps at attractions for CMs to add to the DAS when they gave out Return Times.
Cheaters responded by stealing pens and stamps.
This was especially widespread at Disneyland, which was why DL started attaching DAS to park passes and linking passes of other members of the group to the DAS.

From what I know, the plan was to eventually attach DAS to Magicbands at WDW and also at DL once those have gone into use at DL.
The process apparently started earlier than planned at DL because of cheaters.

Most people think that GAC was changed due to abuse by non-disabled persons, but a lot was due to abuse by people with disabilities - especially the recent changes like limiting numbers in the party

 

[lanejudy]

@rjthkids I would hope that if you found yourselves in the situation of one DAS-holder + parent needing to remain at the resort for a day -- a stop at Guest Relations might help rectify the concerns regarding the remaining DAS-holder plus one parent and several young children for that day. I can't guarantee it, but that would be my approach. IF the situation arises, discuss it with Guest Relations at that time. It sounds like you don't have a trip planned immediately anyway, so it could be a moot point by the time you return.

Enjoy your vacation!

 

[2tinkerbell]

I think I understand the issue here. You have your family with 2 DAS holders. Disney splits your party between the 2 DAS holders (ie. 4 on each card). Things go fine as long as everyone in your party wants the same attraction, or has no medical needs. It can even go good say if each parent take a DAS holder and which ever children want to ride the attraction as long as that number is equal or less than what is on the DAS holder's card. The problem arises when a DAS holder has a medical need or an issue requiring assistance. The DAS holder and a parent are not able to go on any attractions for a period of time. The other DAS holder in the party along with the parent and the remainder of the family exceed the number originally attached to the DAS holder (now a party of 6). I hope that makes sense. I would think that a visit to Guest Relations would help solve that problem. A simple explanation why the change in the # of the party is all that would be necessary.

I do understand that you are trying hard to work within the system and are not trying to abuse it. It is just hard. Hopefully by the time you go, WDW will copy that in place at Disneyland. I haven't had the opportunity to try it yet, but, I am looking forward to it.

 

[OurBigTrip]

In the case of having two party members who qualify for a DAS, one is essentially needing to give up use of DAS services they would otherwise qualify for & otherwise receive because/when/if splitting party size does not reflect their actual group *when the actual group would be able to stay together if the party size was accurately listed*. I don't need each DAS to show ten but we would need each one to show 8 in order ot reflect that there will be times where one parent is needing to disappear with one DAS qualifying child, and which child is doing the disappearing will depend on the individual needs of the DAS qualifying children. My youngest's reasons for "needing" a DAS don't disappear just because she has an older sister who also needs one and vice-versa. It means *not having the same access that would be otherwise provided if they were the only one in our party of 10 who qualified*. They will have less access *not because we are a family of 10, but because there is another DAS user within our party of 10 (or 8 or 7 or whatever the split might end up being)*, and that is what I am speaking to. I am not speaking to times/places that would otherwise be requiring a party to be divided, but times when a family member must forgo access provided by DAS *only because the DAS shows a party size that in not in fact accurate to the party size.*

I don't agree that a DAS user would ever have less access due to party size. Some other members of the party might not be able to access the ride with the DAS user, but the DAS user will always have the access afforded by the DAS.

So for example, if the cards are split 5 and 5, and mom has to leave with younger child that has a DAS, leaving 8 in the park. Older child and 4 others can still ride using the DAS...the DAS user still has access, but three non-DAS holders don't have access.

And I too hope that WDW moves quickly towards putting the DAS on Magic Bands, and splitting the way DL does.

 

[rjthkids]

OurBigTrip, our DASholders are a multidisabled 13 year old and 2 year old and the rest of the party is the gang of siblings who likewise can't be without a parent. For our particular group, if one parent leaves, that means the rest of the group is an "all or nothing" package deal. That is why the answer for my children would indeed be the inability to use DAS accommodation since there is no ability to split the rest of the group once the party size listed no longer matches the actual party size and we are down to one parent.

Honestly I give Disney a lot of credit that they continue to work so hard to continue to try and make accommodations available to those for whom accommodation simply allows equal access, given all the time and effort they need to put into constantly refining systems to mitigate rule breaking. I really do. Everything you posted Sue, sounds like sheer insanity to me. I don't know what they are doing now but yes, when we went they would simply write in times, and we would go back at the appointed time. It was beautiful in its siimplicity and ease of use and I was very pleasantly surprised at how well it worked for us. It would never occur to me that people would be spending their precious time stealing stamps and pens and forging return times instead of taking the time, but I guess I can't say it's surprising.

My husband and I have spent the last decade of our marriage fostering & adopting kids with medical, physical and developmental needs, from infants to preschoolers. I have learned the only thing we can count on is some type of crisis cropping up, lol. We ended up in the ER our last trip to Disney, and we brought home an H1N1 flu as a gift that landed my youngest in the hospital essentially from the end of February thorugh the end of October this year. People ask all the time if I regretted taking that trip last year and I answer honestly---- no, I don't. Because we got to have an absolute blast, there was no guarantee that she wouldn't have ended up in the hospital at some point anyway, and we all got good memories that last forever. I can't wait to take everyone back. But the last trip+current medical needs make me extra cautious that we need to plan and anticipate that we will have medical needs that will keep kids out of the park last-minute. (And the measles outbreak at DL makes me think about masks....lots and lots of masks for *everyone*. ).

I really do believe in the fundamental kindness of people. Guest Relations has always been wonderful to deal with and I think that is the perfect if we do end up in a logistical quandry to approach them. I am really hopeful since they already have a system in place in DL that it will head to WDW before we get there. But if not, we will at least be better prepared for understanding the current system.

I have always found this board to be an extraordinarily helpful resource of information for taking my kids who have SN to Disney and giving them the smoothest, most enjoyable trip possible. I really appreciate the patience and time of those who upkeep this board to make sure we all have accurate and up to date information!

 

[aaarcher86]

If you do end up needing a new DAS with the full party because someone stays back, bring the old one with you. They may feel more comfortable if you offer up the old one so they know you aren't trying to double dip.

 

[OurBigTrip]

If you do end up needing a new DAS with the full party because someone stays back, bring the old one with you. They may feel more comfortable if you offer up the old one so they know you aren't trying to double dip.

Great idea!

 

[rjthkids]

If you do end up needing a new DAS with the full party because someone stays back, bring the old one with you. They may feel more comfortable if you offer up the old one so they know you aren't trying to double dip.

Love this idea! Thank you for the suggestion. That would work very well for us.