FP--- Disney has become too regimented

Doug M · Apr 26, 2015

There seems to be a sense of entilement from rider maximizers amongs the population who are upset that they cannot ride the top rides 10 times in a day anymore with limited wait times. While that is unfortunate that your preferred touring style is going to be quite difficult going forward, you should also see that this is a bonus to the vast majority of guests going to WDW as they get a taste of the best rides with limited waits, see others, and could if they want RD and hit those more headliners again as well.

This is what Disney wants I would guess, they dont want first timers having a RD requirement to ride 7DMT with a short wait, or see a FP- return time of 7pm or later, or having to sit in 90 minute lines.

WillAustin · Apr 26, 2015

Doug M said:
There seems to be a sense of entilement from rider maximizers amongs the population who are upset that they cannot ride the top rides 10 times in a day anymore with limited wait times.

That's a pretty big leap.

Luckybee · Apr 26, 2015

mullysisters said:
I don't understand what other options there are to the increased crowds at Disney? If they did away with FP+, we would all be standing in 2 hour lines. Everyone wants spontaneity, and the ability to sleep in until 10am, then walk on the rides. The only possible solution is that Disney restricts the number of guests. I go every year knowing it will be very busy. I get on my fav rides thanks to the FP+ system. I also ride many other thanks to EMH.
For all those who hate the FP+ and crowds what is your solution?
Just curious, I hate crowds too, when enough people stop going to WDW , things should get better.

For us Universal and express pass

We're spending most of our Orlando time now in a completely different set of parks and very little at Disney

Doug M · Apr 26, 2015

Luckybee said:
For us Universal and express pass We're spending most of our Orlando time now in a completely different set of parks and very little at Disney

We will be trying US and their version of FP for our next big family trip in 2017 i think. I have a feeling if Disney had unlimited front of line access, that would really be causing a storm.

dkrauss · Apr 26, 2015

mullysisters said:
I don't understand what other options there are to the increased crowds at Disney? If they did away with FP+, we would all be standing in 2 hour lines. Everyone wants spontaneity, and the ability to sleep in until 10am, then walk on the rides. The only possible solution is that Disney restricts the number of guests. I go every year knowing it will be very busy. I get on my fav rides thanks to the FP+ system. I also ride many other thanks to EMH.
For all those who hate the FP+ and crowds what is your solution?
Just curious, I hate crowds too, when enough people stop going to WDW , things should get better.

A couple of very interesting points here.......I thought spontaneity was suppose to be..............well................spontaneous

To me it's a point of view...............those are the things I don't plan for; like "Grumpy" coming up to my wife as we watch the FOF parade (yeah...yeah...yeah we FP+'d it) and doing a "selfie" with her during the parade. Or watching little ones eat the hot pretzels outside of the German pavilion. Spontaneity, to me, is about soaking in the atmosphere.........looking up on Main St............watching the 5pm Flag Retreat ceremony. Sitting in the lobby at the Wilderness Lodge or on a bench at the AKV and watching the animals on the savannah.................that's peace pixiedust:

Spontaneity is what YOU make it!!!

Am I missing something............. are ADR's a new experience? On our last trip we planned out a few ADR's and "winged" it on several other meals......mostly lunches and a dinner here or there......worked fine us.......found out that Peco's Bill's has some tasty BBQ.....but that's me.

Now we couldn't wing a reservation at California Grill but as someone who reads up on these things, I knew that in advance.........is it wrong for me to assume many on this board should know that too? I know many folks have their issues with FP+.....that's fair........... but FP+ not going away..........Disney likes it..........and as some have stated above it doesn't seem to be hurting attendance....Jeez, on our last trip, in September we let go of a 4:45pm Space Mountain FP to wait in line (a short 30 min wait) for Pirates of the Caribbean (which does sorely need a refurb..........but during the summer

) Now that's spontaneity!

Disney isn't going to restrict the number of guests...........that's bad economics. What they'll do is create a 5th gate (its coming..........maybe in 5 years but I feel it) and they'll add a new hotel or two. Until there's an economic reason to do more Disney has set its path. Interestingly the FREE DINING plan probably wasn't suppose to be a yearly thing. Its a way to fill rooms during slow times and its been a smashing success. However to Disney there's a cost and I would bet they'd like to stop it...............but in this case they won't. Families plan........oh that dirty word again...........for FREE DINING........I read a post today where a family was planning for it in 2016!!!! 2015 Free Dining isn't out yet.........and folks are looking that far ahead. There could/would be an impact if Disney stopped free dining.............I'm sure of it. But this is the only issue where Disney has conceded to the masses, if you can call it that. But FREE DINING that many love is the reason for big crowds during previously less crowed times...............kinda funny.....the perk many love at WDW is the cause for some of the increased crowds levels.....we all dislike........ironic.

Interestingly the solution requested in the quote above is fairly easy............It is what it is, nothing really to solve. FP+ is staying.........the crowds are going to be there, and might....just might grow a bit more............ It can be accepted and dealt with...........or not

Doug

Planogirl · Apr 26, 2015

People keep saying that current capacity requires this new system. Maybe increasing capacity would have helped with all of this? If more people want a product then you offer more of that product. That is unless you're trying to be a bit exclusive.

We never sprinted anywhere. We might have used 5 or 6 fastpasses a day and we used them during the posted return time because that was our style. We were hardly hoarders or "ride maximizers". I would simply like to be able to do as much as we used to.

Shaden · Apr 26, 2015

Doug M said:
There seems to be a sense of entilement from rider maximizers amongs the population who are upset that they cannot ride the top rides 10 times in a day anymore with limited wait times. While that is unfortunate that your preferred touring style is going to be quite difficult going forward, you should also see that this is a bonus to the vast majority of guests going to WDW as they get a taste of the best rides with limited waits, see others, and could if they want RD and hit those more headliners again as well.

This is what Disney wants I would guess, they dont want first timers having a RD requirement to ride 7DMT with a short wait, or see a FP- return time of 7pm or later, or having to sit in 90 minute lines.

Two things "entitlement" is used in a derogatory way when someone undeservedly demands some form of benefit, usually without earning it.
People going to Disney don't have a "sense of entitlement" they and an entitlement. They have paid for something, and so they are entitled to it.

Secondly, Most first timers wont be able to ride7DMT with a short wait, so if that's what Disney was going for this system is a massive failure. There isn't enough capacity for most guests to ride 7DMT with a short wait. The irony is that at least under FP- if a first timer showed up first thing, they had the same shot at just about everything a regular wanted. Of course the regular was likely going to have a better strategy, but hey at least the slate was clean and all rides and FPs were available. Now, a first timer might well show up and the entire day's capacity of FPs for the rides they want can be gone. I don't see how that's going to be a great experience for a first timer either: "Hey there CM, how can I get one of those fast passes people are using to skip this 90 minute ride???" "Sorry first time guest, you needed to be online 60 days ago booking your Fast Pass" ... dang.

Doug M · Apr 26, 2015

Entilement was probably a stronger word than i was going for, but a person typically used to smashing the same ride out many many times years ago cant expect that to continue going forward to the same magnitude with or without FP+. Some of the new people would be competing for those FP tickets, if you once could grab 7 a day, maybe 2 years ago it went to 6, then maybe would have been 5 last year, this maybe 5, but maybe 4. THE biggest factor in wait times going up is more people and same capacity, or less in HS and to some extent Epcot.

My guess is a billion dollar a year company didnt just take a flier and switch FP without having either solid numbers it would likely solve a coming monsoon of wait times park wide or was hearing from the majority (not us DISers) that they couldnt access FP- sufficiently or with reasonable return times.

I would rather have the same situation we all had 10 years back too, including FP- with millions less in the parks. Hopefully though the massive increase in patrons leads to big expansions at HS, Epcot, and AK, some more at MK, maybe a 5th gate, and more hotels to stay at with all price levels getting new.

Doug M · Apr 26, 2015

Actually what i would love would be a hybrid, bring old FP back, allow maybe only 1 FP+, or at least remove the 3 requirement.

Best of both systems, but slightly less available for both systems. And for heavens sake, BUILD MORE ATTRACTIONS!

Shaden · Apr 26, 2015

Doug M said:
Entilement was probably a stronger word than i was going for, but a person typically used to smashing the same ride out many many times years ago cant expect that to continue going forward to the same magnitude with or without FP+. Some of the new people would be competing for those FP tickets, if you once could grab 7 a day, maybe 2 years ago it went to 6, then maybe would have been 5 last year, this maybe 5, but maybe 4. THE biggest factor in wait times going up is more people and same capacity, or less in HS and to some extent Epcot.

My guess is a billion dollar a year company didnt just take a flier and switch FP without having either solid numbers it would likely solve a coming monsoon of wait times park wide or was hearing from the majority (not us DISers) that they couldnt access FP- sufficiently or with reasonable return times.

I would rather have the same situation we all had 10 years back too, including FP- with millions less in the parks. Hopefully though the massive increase in patrons leads to big expansions at HS, Epcot, and AK, some more at MK, maybe a 5th gate, and more hotels to stay at with all price levels getting new.

Would a multi-billion dollar company care about what the impact on wait times was as long as the impact on their profits was positive ?

Doug M · Apr 26, 2015

Shaden said:
Would a multi-billion dollar company care about what the impact on wait times was as long as the impact on their profits was positive ?

Because many fisrt timers might also be last timers if people just stood in lines all day, people in lines also cant buy junk in shops.

Shaden · Apr 26, 2015

Doug M said:
Actually what i would love would be a hybrid, bring old FP back, allow maybe only 1 FP+, or at least remove the 3 requirement.

Best of both systems, but slightly less available for both systems. And for heavens sake, BUILD MORE ATTRACTIONS!

Now this, this we can agree on.

Rhody73 · Apr 26, 2015

Doug M said:
Entilement was probably a stronger word than i was going for, but a person typically used to smashing the same ride out many many times years ago cant expect that to continue going forward to the same magnitude with or without FP+. Some of the new people would be competing for those FP tickets, if you once could grab 7 a day, maybe 2 years ago it went to 6, then maybe would have been 5 last year, this maybe 5, but maybe 4. THE biggest factor in wait times going up is more people and same capacity, or less in HS and to some extent Epcot.

My guess is a billion dollar a year company didnt just take a flier and switch FP without having either solid numbers it would likely solve a coming monsoon of wait times park wide or was hearing from the majority (not us DISers) that they couldnt access FP- sufficiently or with reasonable return times.

I would rather have the same situation we all had 10 years back too, including FP- with millions less in the parks. Hopefully though the massive increase in patrons leads to big expansions at HS, Epcot, and AK, some more at MK, maybe a 5th gate, and more hotels to stay at with all price levels getting new.

I agree with you that Disney researched FP and as the original poster I stated as much. But I am lucky in that I go off-season and having been 15 times we can pick and choose what we want to see. But as a veteran observer, I now find that in off-season there are pretty long lines. Peter Pan always had 75 minute waits during busy days before FP and now it has 75 minute waits during off-season. What will happen in the busy season??? I look around at families that are spending big bucks to spend more of their day waiting in lines than enjoying rides. Maybe the crowds dicate that. But I think the one probelm I saw is thatsome FP lines had 1 minute wait while the stanby line had an hour wait. I am not sure how good the young Disney employees are at balancing the FP versus the standby line.

Yellowstonetim · Apr 26, 2015

Rhody73 said:
1. Big attractions like PP( 70 minute wait) has the same waiting times e that it did before FP came along. If the crowd is the same size why doesn't FP lower the standy-by times since some portion of the crowd go through the FP line.

I 400 people get in the standby line and 100 get FP, it will take a certain amount of time for the 400th person to get on the ride. IF 300 people are in standby and 200 people have FP, the standby line will be shorter, but the same number of people will be getting on the ride. The standby will have to pause more frequently for the higher number of FP riders. So a shorter line doesn't change the wait time, it just allows people to not wait in line.

bigcrit said:
I have been questioning the logic behind park hopping with the new system and the additional costs. Doesn't seem to make much sense anymore as your hands are really tied with FP+

We have found the FP+ actually helps us park hop. We plan days where we rope drop one park and do FP+ at another park. No matter when we go in the afternoon, we have the headliners reserved!

bigcrit said:
I think long time Disney fans are disappointed in the system. It DOES take away spontaneity! The original system allowed you tour as you please while still getting FP's. The new system requires you to decide very far in advance. It also treats people staying off-site as second class citizens, which Disney never did before, but now does.

No. Many, many long time Disney fans love the new system. Even a majority on this site. It makes things so much more relaxing. And, now that I have used it several times, I understand how it actually has helped us relax and be more spontaneous. We no longer have to plan an entire day to maximize FP and get to kiosks at the right time. We reserve the rides we really want ahead of time and the just go with the flow in between. And we make changes on he fly. Most people I read here and I talk to seem to find it a better system.

And you could always plan to make your visits better at WDW since opening day, and you could always just go with the flow even today. But you could never expect to get the same results from both. We do both. Some days planned some not. Both work and are fun but give us different results.

I feel sorry that it is so bad in some's opinion that they stop coming, but Que Sera, Sera! What will be, will be. Attendance is up and climbing, the average visitor, including long time return visitors like myself, are happier with the new system, and I've got 10 days reserved in October!

pjhootch · Apr 26, 2015

SeilerBird said:
It blows me away that WDW is 43 square miles with 25 million annual visitors and people want to be "spontaneous". Go to the beach if you want to be spontaneous. Disney requires planning.

Why thank you, I plan to do so.

Spontaneity is certainly relative. Maybe flexibility is what I miss instead of spontaneity. Obviously, there needs to be a certain amount of planning that will go into a Disney trip. ADRSs are not new and not the only way to eat. I've never been a fan of the 180 day window because I cannot plan vacations six months ahead. It isn't possible. I don't have a solution for it- but I'm not required to like it. I mean, the solution is for me to make it work as well as possible for my family within the limitations imposed upon us. So- that is what I do. And I am not blaming everything on FP+ system. For ME, this is the most recent buzz kill, not the end of the world.

Yeah- I am absolutely one of those folks that learned to maximize the old FP system and use it to our benefit. I don't feel entitled to anything. I actually hated the idea of FP when it started. Once I realized how to use it in a way that worked for me I was okay with it.

A lot of us that are complaining aren't saying we will never go again. But I don't enjoy it as much this way and that may lead us to do things differently.

Doug M said:
We will be trying US and their version of FP for our next big family trip in 2017 i think. I have a feeling if Disney had unlimited front of line access, that would really be causing a storm.

Disney did, if briefly, and not at WDW. :thumbsup2

It was at Disneyland, only available with a certain type of package... and it was GREAT. We used it at Christmas/New Year's one year and had the time of our lives.

Luckybee · Apr 26, 2015

SeilerBird said:
It blows me away that WDW is 43 square miles with 25 million annual visitors and people want to be "spontaneous". Go to the beach if you want to be spontaneous. Disney requires planning.

Our trip before last year consisted of 6 Disney days. We planned a grand total of 2 adr's . That's it. Nothing more nothing less. Low season, no stress, no need for a "plan", and spontaneity came naturally. We didn't have to go to the beach for spontaneity.
Now you're right...which is why instead of 2 weeks in Orlando, we're now doing only 1 week, and of that 1 week only 2 Disney days and the rest at Universal, then a week at the beach at the Hyatt in Siesta Key. Good idea

Luckybee · Apr 26, 2015

Doug M said:
There seems to be a sense of entilement from rider maximizers amongs the population who are upset that they cannot ride the top rides 10 times in a day anymore with limited wait times. While that is unfortunate that your preferred touring style is going to be quite difficult going forward, you should also see that this is a bonus to the vast majority of guests going to WDW as they get a taste of the best rides with limited waits, see others, and could if they want RD and hit those more headliners again as well.

This is what Disney wants I would guess, they dont want first timers having a RD requirement to ride 7DMT with a short wait, or see a FP- return time of 7pm or later, or having to sit in 90 minute lines.

Except that wasn't what the op was saying about their touring style. They miss the walk ons or short lines on the secondary attractions which we relate to. Nowhere did they say they wanted to ride and reride over and over. And they miss the ability to stroll and just choose what to do, as do we.

Megsmachine · Apr 26, 2015

Rhody73 said:
My wife and I went to Disney for a day trip yesterday since we winter in Florida. Over the years, we have enjoyed about 15 Disney weekly vacations mostly staying inside at each of the moderate or value resorts multiple times. Like many visitors we have seen a plethora of changes. But I really think Fast Pass has taken a lot of the enjoyment out of Disney. I would assume Disney put a lot of thought into adding FP. They also spent big bucks redesigning just about every attraction to handle separate entrances. I am sure the continual price increases the lst few years reflect the implementation of FP. But I don't see the advantage of the system to the average visitor.

To my wife and I travelling without children, Disney can be pretty easy to navigate. We went to the Magic Kingdom so we made sure the waether was good and then booked a few days before a FP for Haunted Mansion, Pirates and Peter Pan. As soon as we arrived at 9:00am we went right to 7 Dwarfs and just waited for the 60 minutes. I realize it is the hottest attraction and a 60 minute wait is no big deal for adults. WE then wandered around and picked and chose ridesmany of which are the ones our kids never wanted to ride. But things like Small World had at least a 30 minute wait all day. Peter Pan posted a 70 min wait most of the day but we had a FP and walked right on. People Mover had a line!!! Since going to Disney beginning in 1975, I have never seen a line extending into the common area for People Mover( for oldtimers Wedway). Attractions like Hall of Presidents, Carousel of Progress and Country Bear were deserted. According to the crowd websit yeasterday was a 6 out of 10 crowd. My overall impressions:

1. Big attractions like PP( 70 minute wait) has the same waiting times e that it did before FP came along. If the crowd is the same size why doesn't FP lower the standy-by times since some portion of the crowd go through the FP line.

2. Remember when you went to Disney at opening, did those 2 or 3 must see attractions before 10 or 11 and then played it by "ear". Well I felt sorry for one family in line at the Haunted House whose 2 8-10 year olds wanted lunch but Dad said the had to wait a while because they couldn't not use a FP. Just as bad as another young couple where the husband hollered to the wife to take their 10 yr old on HH with their FP and he would skip it since the 5 or 6 year old was sound asleep in his arms.

3. Everything but the "dead attractions" now have lines. Before, certain secondary attractions like Small World had certain times of day like lunch parade time etc where the wait was 5 minutes. We pased it avout 3 times yesterday and the wait was always 30 minutes.

4. A friend told me about going for 6 days and booking fast passes for 5 and picking mid-week for Typhoon Lagoon. Unfortunately it rained on the Wednesday and they had to change days and lost out on the FP advantage.

5. I will be honest. If you were an organized Disney visitor who had a basic plan before you arrived at the park each day, it was pretty easy to see everything you wanted to. However, the person who slept in and just arrived at noon with no plan probably struggled to get their to-do list accomplished. I remember when the kids were 5-9, we would always take a break around 1:00 and go back and let the kids hit the pool or nap and go back around 4-5. I think that idea would really limit your ability to see everything you wanted in the age of FP.

6. Yesterday was a very enjoyable day for my wife and I. The only must-see we had was 7 Dwarfs and we accomplished that. We did go to many of the things the average person does not go to because we had to skip them for the teenagers many times. But I think the average family needs more days at the park to accomplish what we used to do with 2 children. I really think FP forced you to spend more time waiting for all the rides not less.

7. I think a Disney vacation is not a project that requires a lot of work and planning. That would not bother me becuase I like toresearch a trip. But I know a lot of people who like to show up on a vacation and not pre-plan. Do that nowadays at Disney and you will be one of many I saw yesterday growling rather than smiling.

8. Maybe FP for only the top 2 or 3 attractions would be a good idea.

The days of not planning are surely over. But really, they have been for a long time. I agree with all of your points above and dislike the new FP system. That being said, I just plugged in our info on disneys site for how much it would cost for our family to go for one week in September, one of the least expensive times. So it would be 2 adults and our 5 kids, 16, 12, 11, 4, and 3. We are a larger family so it really bumps up the price and narrows down our accommodation choices. This is for Saturday to Saturday at OKW, keeping in mind that it would be free dining. We would buy a 4 day ticket with water parks and more option. The total JUST for what I listed is $7,725 at OKW. This does not factor in misc. expenses, tips, travel etc. If someone is spending a large some of money like this, they better plan! Anyone that thinks they can spend over $7K on a trip and not plan but have a magical time is delusional!

Now for people that only do a day trip here and there I can imagine it is frustrating! At least with the old FP system you had the chance to get more FP's.

Rhody73 · Apr 26, 2015

Yellowstonetim said:
I 400 people get in the standby line and 100 get FP, it will take a certain amount of time for the 400th person to get on the ride. IF 300 people are in standby and 200 people have FP, the standby line will be shorter, but the same number of people will be getting on the ride. The standby will have to pause more frequently for the higher number of FP riders. So a shorter line doesn't change the wait time, it just allows people to not wait in line.

Watch the lines when you get close in standby. I watched the lines in the 7 Dwarfs on Friday. They only admitted standby when no one was in FP. As a result, they were not efficiently moving both lines. They could have moved both sides and let a small line build up in FP. Their goal seemed to be make sure no one waited in FP. As a result, the SB line was not moving efficiently. So in your example, the more people in FP delays the SB line since at least in 7 Dwarfs they do not mix the lines but go from one to the other then back again.

Rhody73 · Apr 26, 2015

Luckybee said:
Except that wasn't what the op was saying about their touring style. They miss the walk ons or short lines on the secondary attractions which we relate to. Nowhere did they say they wanted to ride and reride over and over. And they miss the ability to stroll and just choose what to do, as do we.

Well said

FP--- Disney has become too regimented

DIS Veteran

Who saw the Test Track Singers in person? I did!

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

Goofy Fan from Jersey

I feel the nerd in me stirring

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

Earning My Ears

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

I love Minnie!

Earning My Ears

Earning My Ears

Share this page