How important will it be to own at PVB?

DizGirl20 · Mar 31, 2015

Trying to decide whether to add on at GFV or PVB. We have enough points to stay every other year at GFV. So we can add on more points that would allow us to stay every year at GFV. But PVB also appeals to us. How important do you think it will be to own at PVB? We do not plan to go during holiday/peak season, but rather during January and/or W&D (Adventure/Choice Season).

Tunseeker1 · Mar 31, 2015

I just added on at PVB instead of GFV.
I stay in studios and haven't been using the kitchens in 1 bedrooms recently.

I like the 5 person studios that can connect for when the kids are older and want to bring a friend with family.

rlovew · Mar 31, 2015

I suspect when it is fully sold out getting a studio at PVB will be slightly easier than at GFV but just like GFV they will be targeting marketing to people who love this resort. There will be some people who buy there because it is available but I think many more of them will buy there to stay there. It will be slightly easier since there are a lot more studios. I know I bought my GFV points to use there exclusively and I use other points when I stay anywhere else. I suspect there are/will be many members at each of these resorts who do this- I mean honestly why bother paying for GFV points and staying somewhere much cheaper to buy.

Minniesgal · Mar 31, 2015

I think the bigger DVC gets the more important home resort advantage will be.

I suspect the majority of the people who buy at the Poly will be buying to mostly stay there so if you really want to stay there regularly I'd buy there especially since you already have enough points to alternate with VGF

drusba · Apr 1, 2015

Be aware that late Sep through marathon weekend in Jan is DVC's peak demand season at WDW. Thus, your mention that you will be going during Wine & Dine means you will be going during DVC's peak season. Also be aware that if, when you refer to holiday/peak, you mean holidays like Easter, July 4, Memorial Day, Presidents week, and Labor Day, those are moderate DVC demand times when it is possible to find many things at 7 months out.

What I believe likely to eventually happen with Poly once it is near sell-out is that during that DVC peak season, studios will be difficult to impossible to get at 7 months out. Yes, there are a lot of studios, but the issue with availability for them will be caused by the existence of the bungalows. Few can afford to buy the points needed to regularly stay in the bungalows. The typical purchaser is going to be someone who wants a studio. The result is going to be that the studios will be substantially, but legally, oversold, because Disney gets to sell both the studio points and the bungalow points to everyone who wants studios.

So if you want a studio at Poly every other year during W&D, you should consider owning at Poly. Poly may not become as bad as VGF, which has only 47 studios, where getting a studio has become difficult at 7 months out year round and even the 11 month window is not safe during a number of times in peak season, but you should not assume it will be easy to get at 7 months out.

CMNJ · Apr 1, 2015

If you want to go to Poly regularly (every other year) during F&W I would suggest buying there-it will prob not be as hard to get into at VGF simply because it is so much larger -however if this fall is any indication it is extremely popular at the 7 month mark and hard to get. Obviously not all inventory has been declared yet but as more points are sold there I would think it would only become harder not easier-withMNSSHP and MVMCP at MK and convenience to Epcot monorail I would think it will remain extremely popular with those who buy there.

DizGirl20 · Apr 1, 2015

Thank you for all the replies. I honestly have been on the fence about buying this as a home resort, but with all the renovations and improvements they are making, it's becoming more and more appealing.

tjkraz · Apr 1, 2015

Minniesgal said:
I think the bigger DVC gets the more important home resort advantage will be.

At first glance you would think so. But don't overlook the fact that DVC's growth not only brings new members but also new destinations. 8-10 years ago it was VERY difficult to get into the BoardWalk at 7 months. With so many points owned a OKW, SSR and the off-site properties, a large number of owners would scramble to book the likes of BCV and BWV at 7 months.

But since then we've seen many other desirable locations added: BCV, VGF, Grand Californian, AKV (Club and Savanna view in particular)...even Aulani is a popular 7-month draw during summer and vacation periods. Demand for BWV has noticeably dropped off.

Future demand trends will largely be determined by the destinations Disney chooses to build and how they're embraced by owners.

YourEveryDayAdam · Apr 1, 2015

I think PVB will be a bit easier than other places to get in to.

360 rooms. A lot of rooms. All of them studios. To give you a comparison, Bay Lake Tower has 428 rooms split between studios, one bedrooms, two bedrooms, and Grand Villas. Animal Kingdom Lodge (both Jambo and Kidani) have 458 rooms. While PVB isn't the biggest, it has nearly 3 times the number of rooms of the Grand Floridian Villas (147).

Any family with more than 5 people are going to be completely locked out of PVB, not counting the bungalows. 5 in a studio, even one the size of a PVB room, is going to be tight. I don't think a family of 5 is going to book PVB that much. I don't know the stats, but I would guess the fact that PVB is studios only pretty much discourages about 1/2 of the DVC membership from staying there at all.

If you look at only studios, PVB probably has a comparable number of just studios as resorts like SSR and OKW. Those resorts are very easy to get in to just about any time of year at 7 months.

Also the rooms at PVB are very expensive compared to other rooms. This will discourage the point pinchers.

All-in-all, there are a lot of people I can see who won't stay at PVB. Honestly, I'm not too worried about getting PVB at 7 months unless during a peak time of year. I would guess that it will be somewhere between BLT and SSR/OKW in terms of booking difficulty.

supersnoop · Apr 1, 2015

PVB is going to be a mixed bag. We'll really have to wait and see how it turns out. While there are 360 studios, the points associated with the 20 bungalows will massively overpower them. I'm going from memory, but I believe that 80% of the points at PVB come from the bungalows. And I doubt 80% of the owners are expecting to stay in the bungalows. While there are plenty of studios, there will be many, many more owners trying to book those.

CMNJ · Apr 1, 2015

YourEveryDayAdam said:
All-in-all, there are a lot of people I can see who won't stay at PVB. Honestly, I'm not too worried about getting PVB at 7 months unless during a peak time of year. I would guess that it will be somewhere between BLT and SSR/OKW in terms of booking difficulty.

The OP is talking about going during F&W which is peak time of the year-you may be right about other times of the year not being as difficult but as previous posters have mentioned if not enough Poly owners are actually buying in to stay in the bungalows that will ultimately lead to a shortage of Poly rooms before the 7 month window once it is sold out.
Also your point about poly being so much more expensive than other studios-other than VWL other MK resort options at 7 months really aren't much cheaper with BLT standard usually being unavail (or so I have read)
For instance during choice season (F&W) BLT lake view studio is 128 and Poly standard is 130-I know lake view could be awesome or it could be not so great (have seen reports where people could only see a tiny bit of lake) but Poly has more (and many might say better theming at resort as well as substantially larger room AND sleeps 5 whereas BLT sleeps 4)
VGF is slightly lower at 125 for standard but it appears that really is never an option for 7 month bookings

Minniesgal · Apr 1, 2015

YourEveryDayAdam said:
I think PVB will be a bit easier than other places to get in to.

360 rooms. A lot of rooms. All of them studios. To give you a comparison, Bay Lake Tower has 428 rooms split between studios, one bedrooms, two bedrooms, and Grand Villas. Animal Kingdom Lodge (both Jambo and Kidani) have 458 rooms. While PVB isn't the biggest, it has nearly 3 times the number of rooms of the Grand Floridian Villas (147).

Any family with more than 5 people are going to be completely locked out of PVB, not counting the bungalows. 5 in a studio, even one the size of a PVB room, is going to be tight. I don't think a family of 5 is going to book PVB that much. I don't know the stats, but I would guess the fact that PVB is studios only pretty much discourages about 1/2 of the DVC membership from staying there at all.

If you look at only studios, PVB probably has a comparable number of just studios as resorts like SSR and OKW. Those resorts are very easy to get in to just about any time of year at 7 months.

Also the rooms at PVB are very expensive compared to other rooms. This will discourage the point pinchers.

All-in-all, there are a lot of people I can see who won't stay at PVB. Honestly, I'm not too worried about getting PVB at 7 months unless during a peak time of year. I would guess that it will be somewhere between BLT and SSR/OKW in terms of booking difficulty.

Totally disagree with this. I think Disney did the studio thing with PVB as the DVC demand is skewed towards studios and the five in a studio thing is actually very popular as is connecting studios. Look at VGF demand studios are overbooked and the 1 bedrooms have low demand.

However,I think the real problem with PVB demand will be the bungalows. Most people will buy planning on using studios which may well leave the bungalows unoccupied and the studios overbooked. Also I think a lot of people who are buying the Poly are buying thPoly to stay at the Poly. I just can't see most people buying PVB and trading out to cheaper resorts.

We bought VGF with the intention of only ever using those points there, it would make me ill to use them to stay at SSR which I could have bought at half the price I suspect the same will be true for a large percentage of poly owners.

All things considered I wouldn't bank on getting in often at 7 months especially at busy times.

nalajms · Apr 1, 2015

YourEveryDayAdam said:
I think PVB will be a bit easier than other places to get in to.

360 rooms. A lot of rooms. All of them studios. To give you a comparison, Bay Lake Tower has 428 rooms split between studios, one bedrooms, two bedrooms, and Grand Villas. Animal Kingdom Lodge (both Jambo and Kidani) have 458 rooms. While PVB isn't the biggest, it has nearly 3 times the number of rooms of the Grand Floridian Villas (147).

Any family with more than 5 people are going to be completely locked out of PVB, not counting the bungalows. 5 in a studio, even one the size of a PVB room, is going to be tight. I don't think a family of 5 is going to book PVB that much. I don't know the stats, but I would guess the fact that PVB is studios only pretty much discourages about 1/2 of the DVC membership from staying there at all.

If you look at only studios, PVB probably has a comparable number of just studios as resorts like SSR and OKW. Those resorts are very easy to get in to just about any time of year at 7 months.

Also the rooms at PVB are very expensive compared to other rooms. This will discourage the point pinchers.

All-in-all, there are a lot of people I can see who won't stay at PVB. Honestly, I'm not too worried about getting PVB at 7 months unless during a peak time of year. I would guess that it will be somewhere between BLT and SSR/OKW in terms of booking difficulty.

Totally agree with you :thumbsup2

. I also believe there will be a good portion of new DVC buyers that buy at PVB because it's what the guides are selling but will likely book elsewhere for a 1b or 2b at 7m, due to the point costs for the bungalows.

tjkraz · Apr 1, 2015

supersnoop said:
I'm going from memory, but I believe that 80% of the points at PVB come from the bungalows. And I doubt 80% of the owners are expecting to stay in the bungalows.

You have that backward. The bungalows represent about 20% of the points vs. 80% studios.

Minniesgal said:
Also I think a lot of people who are buying the Poly are buying thPoly to stay at the Poly. I just can't see most people buying PVB and trading out to cheaper resorts.

With all due respect, I've been reading similar sentiments on the DIS for more than a decade. There were people convinced that nobody would ever pay $100 per point for AKV if they didn't plan on booking there 99% of the time.

I'm sure each resort has its rabid following. But over the years, other owners will waiver in their loyalties. Some will book a non-home for the change of pace. Some find that they like another resort better. Many people initially bought their Home resort simply because it was the only thing offered at the time of purchase. Many owners simply are not prepared to book 11 months in advance, which ultimately frees-up accommodations at 7 months.

Poly may find its 11 month bookings are on the low side because of the absence of One and Two Bedroom villas. Larger groups are pretty much forced to book elsewhere if they want the private bedroom, full kitchen, laundry facilities, etc.

YourEveryDayAdam · Apr 1, 2015

tjkraz said:
You have that backward. The bungalows represent about 20% of the points vs. 80% studios.

I also think that they will have to rebalance the points between the bungalows and the studios like they did between SSR and the treehouses...just in reverse. I can honestly see the bungalows not being booked because of the super high point requirements.

tjkraz said:
With all due respect, I've been reading similar sentiments on the DIS for more than a decade. There were people convinced that nobody would ever pay $100 per point for AKV if they didn't plan on booking there 99% of the time.

I'm sure each resort has its rabid following. But over the years, other owners will waiver in their loyalties. Some will book a non-home for the change of pace. Some find that they like another resort better. Many people initially bought their Home resort simply because it was the only thing offered at the time of purchase. Many owners simply are not prepared to book 11 months in advance, which ultimately frees-up accommodations at 7 months.

Poly may find its 11 month bookings are on the low side because of the absence of One and Two Bedroom villas. Larger groups are pretty much forced to book elsewhere if they want the private bedroom, full kitchen, laundry facilities, etc.

I agree with this. I initially bought at BLT planning to only ever stay there. Then I started doing a split stay once in a while, then I started doing full trips at other places. Don't get me wrong, BLT is my favorite resort, but I do understand and can even appreciate myself why people stay at other resorts. Now i've stayed everywhere except BCV, GFV, and non-WDW locations.

A lot of the things that also make DVC villas unique (full kitchens, laundry, etc.) are completely absent from PVB. They are, for all intents and purposes, a hotel room that you own.

tjkraz · Apr 1, 2015

YourEveryDayAdam said:
I also think that they will have to rebalance the points between the bungalows and the studios like they did between SSR and the treehouses...just in reverse. I can honestly see the bungalows not being booked because of the super high point requirements.

Very possible. We'll have to see how members react. Disney certainly pushed the envelope on bungalow pricing, though I suspect occupancy rates for other elite DVC accommodations gave them some reason to believe the numbers were palatable.

If DVC does eventually reallocate the points, I don't think it will have a negative impact on the Studios. 1-2 additional points per night isn't going to drive people away in droves. Although it will probably upset some owners who didn't give themselves a buffer when choosing the number of points to buy.

DizGirl20 · Apr 2, 2015

tjkraz said:
Very possible. We'll have to see how members react. Disney certainly pushed the envelope on bungalow pricing, though I suspect occupancy rates for other elite DVC accommodations gave them some reason to believe the numbers were palatable.

If DVC does eventually reallocate the points, I don't think it will have a negative impact on the Studios. 1-2 additional points per night isn't going to drive people away in droves. Although it will probably upset some owners who didn't give themselves a buffer when choosing the number of points to buy.

According to my guide, there are people out there buying a crazy number of points for fixed weeks at the Bungalows. So I concur with you that they must have done quite of bit of extensive research on this before they were built. Can't imagine them messing around with the point charts THAT much (but has this ever happened before - a substantial altering of points?)

tjkraz · Apr 2, 2015

DizGirl20 said:
Can't imagine them messing around with the point charts THAT much (but has this ever happened before - a substantial altering of points?)

What we're discussing wouldn't be a major change...at least, not by my definition. Once a resort has been fully declared as part of the DVC timeshare program, the total number of points it represents can never change. (That total is approximately what it would cost to book EVERY night of the year in EVERY room according to the published point charts. For the Poly it's somewhere north of 5 million points.)

But what the program manager CAN do adjust those values by increasing costs in one area while lowering another.

As an overly simplistic example, let's say they increased the cost of every Studio by 2 points per night. With 360 Studios, that would add 720 points per night to the system. Take those 720 points and spread them over the 20 bungalows and it would allow them to DECREASE the bungalow prices by 36 points per night.

But really changes never that straightforward. They could adjust only certain seasons. They could move calendar dates from one season to another. If the bungalows proved to be more popular on weekends, they could increase weekend costs while decreasing weekdays.

For the past 8 years or so, DVC has made these sorts of adjustments fairly regularly. A very similar change occurred a few years ago when DVC increased the nightly cost for the Treehouse Villas at Saratoga Springs, and balanced that change by lowering the cost of most other villas at the resort.

In the case of the bungalows, I'm sure it will be several years before DVC can truly evaluate whether or not the current point structure is working. At the very least, they'll have to wait until the resort is fully sold out, plus a couple years beyond that to gauge booking patterns and occupancy levels. That's my opinion.

DizGirl20 · Apr 2, 2015

Great explanation thank you!

chalee94 · Apr 2, 2015

DizGirl20 said:
Can't imagine them messing around with the point charts THAT much (but has this ever happened before - a substantial altering of points?)

for one example, here's OKW for the mid-90s:

How important will it be to own at PVB?

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