Monorail accident

[rteetz]

View attachment 128642
There's your tug.

Yep unfortunately this couldn't be used in this situation.

 

[mcjaco]

They said coaches so I thought bus my bad I don't know names of trains.

Even then I don't know how comparable that is to a monorail because isn't a monorail electric? I'm no train expert but it looks like monorails don't have as long of a life span as normal trains. I also don't know what type of maintenance those trains get vs. Disneys monorails.

Locomotives use gas powered engines to turn electrical motors that turn the wheels. The monorails (like streetcars), use electricity from a power sub station to eliminate the need for a gas engine. Properly maintained, they should last a long time. That being said, after years of everyday use, things break. That's the problem with mechanical things.

 

[cranbiz]

View attachment 128642
There's your tug.

And that's one of 3 that Disney has in FL

 

[BagOLaughs]

Locomotives use gas powered engines to turn electrical motors that turn the wheels. The monorails (like streetcars), use electricity from a power sub station to eliminate the need for a gas engine. Properly maintained, they should last a long time. That being said, after years of everyday use, things break. That's the problem with mechanical things.

Sorry to be a stickler but that's not quite true. On an old system like the WDW monorail there will be wire brushes which will eventually wear and it wouldn't surprise me if they have rewound the odd motor at least once. Both are classed as electrical faults. Also I shouldn't forget sensors that need replacing and contactors etc.

The cables themselves shouldn't degrade as long as they are properly contained. But there are a lot of electrical issues that can happen too.

 

[DisneyDude71]

Right they had to get the brakes unlocked first!

 

[SoarinSC]

This is a huge weakness in the monorail design ... emergency evacuation is impossible without massive help from the ground in the form of ladders, hydraulic lifts, etc. Where do you go when you're stuck in an immobile monorail, if it's on fire, or you just plain have to go to the bathroom. Nowhere, except maybe up on the roof or else jump 25 feet straight down. That's on top of the weaknesses shared by all railed transportation, that any failure in any part of the system such as vehicle, track, signals, power, etc. makes the entire rail line blocked and therefore useless.

If they insist on keeping the monorails, they should build a gasoline "donkey engine" into each train which is capable of limping forward or backward to the nearest station in case of loss of power or signaling.

Love the "donkey engine" idea! makes too much sense.

 

[mcjaco]

Sorry to be a stickler but that's not quite true. On an old system like the WDW monorail there will be wire brushes which will eventually wear and it wouldn't surprise me if they have rewound the odd motor at least once. Both are classed as electrical faults. Also I shouldn't forget sensors that need replacing and contactors etc.

The cables themselves shouldn't degrade as long as they are properly contained. But there are a lot of electrical issues that can happen too.

Which is the same thing that happens with diesel electrics. Apples to apples.

A properly maintained fleet will still have breakdowns. It's inevitable.

 

[Whatsthegoodword]

They are currently spending millions on the automation system which was supposed to be completed already but isn't even close to being ready. Disney is going to try and run these monorails until they can't anymore.

Tens of millions is chump change for Disney compared to what they typically spend in the parks. Look at the budget for DCA, or now DHS. Disney needs the infrastructure in order for the parks to work efficiently, hence why a lot of the DHS budget is for infrastructure.

DUDE. They are creating an automation system from scratch, for which there is no real prototype. Have a little respect for the engineering involved in a project like that! Things like that go over budget and over schedule as a matter of course.

...and of course they're going to run the monorails until they can't run them anymore. That's what I do with the machinery at my business. And I'm still shaking my head at this comment: "Tens of millions is chump change..." I'm glad you're not the CFO.

 

[rteetz]

DUDE. They are creating an automation system from scratch, for which there is no real prototype. Have a little respect for the engineering involved in a project like that! Things like that go over budget and over schedule as a matter of course.

...and of course they're going to run the monorails until they can't run them anymore. That's what I do with the machinery at my business. And I'm still shaking my head at this comment: "Tens of millions is chump change..." I'm glad you're not the CFO.

I am completely aware and understand what is involved. With that said Disney could order new trains with the automation system built in already.

For The Walt Disney Company tens of millions isnt a lot when you look at the spending they do on other projects.

These trains have been breaking down more frequently. It may not be necessary for brand new trains but I think it is time for some system upgrades or new mechanics within the monorails so they don't break down as frequently.

 

[tjkraz]

These trains have been breaking down more frequently.

Are there statistics to back-up that claim or are we just guessing, based upon the fact that every breakdown is now considered "news" on social media?

 

[rteetz]

Are there statistics to back-up that claim or are we just guessing, based upon the fact that every breakdown is now considered "news" on social media?

Well I don't know where you could actually find statistics on this. Disney doesn't release that type of info. I know within the last year or two there have been at least two evacuations. Otherwise there have been many delays in many monorail operations because of technical difficulties.

 

[tjkraz]

Well I don't know where you could actually find statistics on this. Disney doesn't release that type of info. I know within the last year or two there have been at least two evacuations. Otherwise there have been many delays in many monorail operations because of technical difficulties.

Statistics is probably a poor choice of words. Let me rephrase: On what basis are you concluding that the trains have been breaking down more frequently?

Two evacuations in a 2 year period doesn't seem out of line to me. Certainly not an indication that mechanical issues are escalating. And "many delays" is not particularly quantifiable.

In order to say that issues are increasing, there must be some valid basis for demonstrating a decrease in reliability. How do recent operational issues compare with 5 years ago? 10 years ago? 20 years ago?

 

[rteetz]

Statistics is probably a poor choice of words. Let me rephrase: On what basis are you concluding that the trains have been breaking down more frequently?

Two evacuations in a 2 year period doesn't seem out of line to me. Certainly not an indication that mechanical issues are escalating. And "many delays" is not particularly quantifiable.

In order to say that issues are increasing, there must be some valid basis for demonstrating a decrease in reliability. How do recent operational issues compare with 5 years ago? 10 years ago? 20 years ago?

I'd say within the last five years there have been an increase in problems or at least complaints about monorail problems including evacuations. I can't tell you how that compares to 20 years ago, I'd assume 20 years there wouldn't be many problem because there were overall less people in WDW, and the fleet of monorails was relatively new.

 

[mcjaco]

I'd say within the last five years there have been an increase in problems or at least complaints about monorail problems including evacuations. I can't tell you how that compares to 20 years ago, I'd assume 20 years there wouldn't be many problem because there were overall less people in WDW, and the fleet of monorails was relatively new.

Less people. Less monorails. Probably pretty close to the same ratio. And no internet to get reports on these things almost immediately, and by fanatics that will report it.

Without data, the argument it fruitless on both sides.

 

[rteetz]

Less people. Less monorails. Probably pretty close to the same ratio. And no internet to get reports on these things almost immediately, and by fanatics that will report it.

Without data, the argument it fruitless on both sides.

Yes but as far as I'm aware this current fleet has been the same other than monorail purple which was involved in the crash which was rebuilt and given a new color. So these 13 monorails have been in service since they came on board 25+ years ago. 25+ years ago not as many people were coming to WDW, DHS was MGM and brand new, AK wasn't existent yet and WDW didn't have as many resorts as they do today.

 

[mcjaco]

Yes but as far as I'm aware this current fleet has been the same other than monorail purple which was involved in the crash which was rebuilt and given a new color. So these 13 monorails have been in service since they came on board 25+ years ago. 25+ years ago not as many people were coming to WDW, DHS was MGM and brand new, AK wasn't existent yet and WDW didn't have as many resorts as they do today.

Full implementation of the VI's was by '93. They originally had 12, just for the two loops, so you're spreading them thinner with the Epcot loop.

Here's more food for thought. They were constructed by Bombardier. They could hold a maintenance contract as well, like the steam engines which are shopped elsewhere, like Strasburg.

 

[buzznina]

We had the unpleasantness of being stuck on the Red monorail back in Dec of 2009 for just over 3 hours, starting at 1AM after MVMCP. It was caused by a power outage, but Disney could not get their monorail computer system back up once the power was back on. I know this because the monorail CM left the line open and we got to, unfortunitely here the conversation and here the control room say that they had no clue what was going on and that they were in the process of rebooting the system which takes about 30 minutes. The cars only ventilation is tiny windows at each end, if you are as old as I am, think of the little vent windows that they had on cars back in the 60's Our car was full so it got VERY hot, stuffy and smelly in there At the 3 hour mark the fire truck finely got to our monorail and was using the truck ladder to evacuate the people. Just before they reached our car, they stopped and 15 looong minutes go by before the CM gets on the intercom to tell us that the monorail tow vehicle will take us into TCC. This was a very good thing for us because our oldest DD (then 5) was very frightened and did not want to go out the door and down the firetruck ladder. To this day I still remembered the look on the CM's face as we got to TCC and she opened our doors and was hit by the "locker room" smell that made her turn her head to the side

 

[circus4u]

I'd say within the last five years there have been an increase in problems or at least complaints about monorail problems including evacuations. I can't tell you how that compares to 20 years ago, I'd assume 20 years there wouldn't be many problem because there were overall less people in WDW, and the fleet of monorails was relatively new.

I think we are more aware of breakdowns and complaints now because of the access to the internet and forums, twitter, etc. over the past twenty years, not necessarily because there are more such problems. Based on almost weekly visits 20 or so years ago, when we lived in the area, there seemed to be no more problems then than there are now.

 

[tjkraz]

I think we are more aware of breakdowns and complaints now because of the access to the internet and forums, twitter, etc. over the past twenty years, not necessarily because there are more such problems. Based on almost weekly visits 20 or so years ago, when we lived in the area, there seemed to be no more problems then than there are now.

That's exactly my point. Thank you.

I keep reading "monorail breakdowns are increasing" as if there's some data to back it up.

WDW has 12 trains which can run 18+ hours per day. Breakdowns are unavoidable and frankly, the handful of instances I've read about on the 'net don't strike me as being outside the acceptable range for mass transit.

If they were evacuating trains 2, 3, 4 times per month, that would seem troubling. A couple times per year seems to fall within expectations even if you're running a brand new fleet. 100% uptime is not a realistic goal.

We all know Disney is strongly focused on dollars-and-cents. They are undoubtedly investing a lot into maintaining the current monorail fleet--more than they would be spending to maintain newer trains. Additionally there is a very real cost associated with every breakdown; everything from the cost of response / maintenance crews, downtime for the impacted section of the line, ramping-up alternate forms of transportation, comps for impacted guests, bad PR, etc.

 

[JJsmama]

d. Both were bangs not rolling thunder and both associated with lightening. All traffic on Seven Seas lagoon including ferries and launches stopped immediately and were down for 1.5 hours.

The question is did that lightening affect the monorail. My guess from the evidence is yes.

But why did all the ferries and boats stop at the same time?