the sound of music live

:sad2:

Study all you want, but at the end of the day the PRODUCT (the voice, the music, the art) is completely subjective to those who are listening to/viewing it. You can be FANTASTIC at playing the theremin, but it still sounds like a dying cat to some. And so on.

I once got blasted by a "musical academic" for my unabashed non-enjoyment of early experimental Coltrane jazz. It sounded like the orchestra on the Muppet Show warming up before the show starts. Just not my thing.

But I like Nickelback. Go figure. :confused3

It's entirely possible that Carrie and others in the cast didn't do a stellar job, AND some folks STILL enjoyed it. Neither right, nor wrong.

And like I keep saying -- that is FINE. I like the indigo girls and bob Dylan. Some people don't. That is FINE. I can't stand jazz, some people do. That is FINE. Taste is subjective. SKILL is not. I can love bob Dylan all I want, and know that he is not a good singer. But I don't listen to bob Dylan to hear world-class vocal talent. I don't see how I can make myself any clearer. Someone asked "I don't see how anyone could think Carrie underwood sang poorly," so I answered. Apparently it was a rhetorical question!!!!!!

Sent from me.
 
The Sound of Music movie is one of my favorites. There would have been no way, at least to me, that the Carrie Underwood version could touch it, so I didn't watch. I do think Underood has a pretty voice but Julie Andrews has or did have an incredible voice. Plus, even as a young girl, I thought Christopher Plummer was dreamy.
 
And like I keep saying -- that is FINE. I like the indigo girls and bob Dylan. Some people don't. That is FINE. I can't stand jazz, some people do. That is FINE. Taste is subjective. SKILL is not. I can love bob Dylan all I want, and know that he is not a good singer. But I don't listen to bob Dylan to hear world-class vocal talent. I don't see how I can make myself any clearer. Someone asked "I don't see how anyone could think Carrie underwood sang poorly," so I answered. Apparently it was a rhetorical question!!!!!!

Sent from me.

Of course it was rhetorical. I'm guessing they just like Carrie's voice. She is generally good...damn good. She HAS skill. Even you (a trained opera singer I understand) have to recognize that she is a skilled country singer. A talented LIVE Broadway performer? Perhaps not. But we all know that isn't what the producers were going for.

But if I may, I'd like to make your head explode...when I was in college, one of my classes involved going into Manhattan every other weekend to go to a play/musical etc. We had the PRIVILEGE of going to see La Boheme at Lincoln Center at the Met. After the performance (which most of my classmates slept through), I overheard some of my classmates complaining about stupid the show was and that "someone should make that show in English". Never mind that there were translators right in front of us.

I was so ***headdesk***
 
I liked the performance last night. Apparently I wasn't supposed to.

I watched 100% to see how Carrie Underwood did in the role, and I thought she was fine. I recognized what a huge risk it was to do such a classic role for the first time on live television. I wasn't expecting perfection. I was expecting to be entertained and my expectations were met.
 


I liked the performance last night. Apparently I wasn't supposed to.

I watched 100% to see how Carrie Underwood did in the role, and I thought she was fine. I recognized what a huge risk it was to do such a classic role for the first time on live television. I wasn't expecting perfection. I was expecting to be entertained and my expectations were met.

I agree. I was very entertained by it. I thought Carrie Underwood did fine. No she is not an actress and no the singing was not her best mostly because it is not her genre. I thought Stephen Moyer did well as Capt Von Trapp, he can sing. Yes I know there was overacting. They were acting as if they were on a stage and not a TV set.
 
If I paid attention to the reviews of TV or movies, I probably wouldn't watch very many. I thoroughly enjoyed last night's performance,loved the singing, and will most likely buy the DVD when it comes out.
 
Considering some of the opinions on this thread alone, of people defending a subpar performance as good, and a couple people saying that it's true they don't get to see much live theatre in "Middle America," and others saying they didn't really pay attention to the Tony Award winning performers as they didn't know who they are, I stand by my statement. I don't think some people have a clue as to what excellent live theatre is. AND there is a couple people saying we shouldn't even have a standard for that if we aren't professionals.

Heck, the international Olympics coverage should be cancelled, and only the actual, professional athletes & judges should watch or comment. :rolleyes:





You and others are saying why compare her to Julie Andrews? You do know that Julie Andrews is not Maria von Trapp. This wasn't an autobiography of Julie Andrews. Even Julie Andrews was cast in the production and she was expected to be able to actas well as sing. Julie Andrews CAN sing AND act. As did Mary Martin. Both of them were hired to do both jobs equally well, and they did it.

Why shouldn't that same expectation and standard apply to Carrie Underwood? Especially when she takes on a show that was performed on national TV, not community theatre. And if you say there is no high standards for TV, there is the primetime Emmy Awards.
Idk--I enjoyed the show...even with all it's faults---you could totally tell who the Broadway/trained folks were. It was great for what it was-a pleasant little TV diversion, with the added bonus of no Victoria's Secret bra or erectile dysfunction commercials. Grand Broadway theatre? No.
 


Of course it was rhetorical. I'm guessing they just like Carrie's voice. She is generally good...damn good. She HAS skill. Even you (a trained opera singer I understand) have to recognize that she is a skilled country singer. A talented LIVE Broadway performer? Perhaps not. But we all know that isn't what the producers were going for.

But if I may, I'd like to make your head explode...when I was in college, one of my classes involved going into Manhattan every other weekend to go to a play/musical etc. We had the PRIVILEGE of going to see La Boheme at Lincoln Center at the Met. After the performance (which most of my classmates slept through), I overheard some of my classmates complaining about stupid the show was and that "someone should make that show in English". Never mind that there were translators right in front of us.

I was so ***headdesk***

I have a friend who sang with me in college (who was better than me) who is now a professional country singer. A girl I currently sing with in the opera sings jazz on the side, and another one is the lead singer of a local indie band. My voice teacher also sings contemporary Christian music. When I'm not singing opera, I sing early sacred works. All of these have stylistic differences but the basics are all the same. I actually lost a vocal student after one lesson a few weeks ago because she couldn't (or rather her mother) couldn't get that. She was about 14, an aspiring contemporary Christian singer with a youtube channel, and at her first lesson I asked her to sing for me. She sang a contem. Christian song, extremely breathy and unsupported. But that is exactly what I expect from 14 and no lessons. I asked her to sing a scale and got the same thing. So I proceeded to explain an exercise I was going to teach her and how we were going to work on breath support and get the breath out of her tone when her mother interjected, "but that's her style. That's what we like, we like breathy." To which I replied that if they liked the breathy sound and wanted it to be her "style" that was fine but as a singer she should be capable of singing a scale properly, and that was my job. I could tell she wasn't trying for the whole rest of the lesson, and she never came back. Voice teachers know this kind of student to be the kind that don't really want to learn, but just want affirmation that they are awesome, and in this case the mother just wanted that too. Breath support would have solved 90% of carrie's problems based on last night alone (the only time I have ever heard her sing live, which is a better indication than a studio recording). No matter what your taste is, the phrase is not "You can (gasp) sing most (gasp) anything!" She did it every single time, which indicates it was deliberate and rehearsed that way. Same thing with all of Amanda segfried's sustained high notes being cut in half in les mis. It is amazing how breath support effects so many things!!! I have another student who had a bad habit of "chewing" her notes (too much jaw movement). She couldn't get through long melisma passages in one breath. I got her to hold her jaw still and all of a sudden without changing anything else she had the breath to get through it! Stylistic differences are one thing but basics are basics.

When I teach music history or theory, I always ask the same question at the very first class -- "what is music?" The answers nearly always have something about "pleasing," " pleasant," or "sounds good." That is wrong. Music is organized sound and silence. It doesn't have to sound good, because what sounds good to you may not sound good to me. In other cultures, "pleasing" is a very dissonant, buzzy tone, and they think our perfect fifths sound "bad." To me jazz sounds like a cat being thrown at a piano but it is still music. If I'm teaching older women I know to expect something about rap not being "real music" but it most certainly is.

I enjoyed the production. It was fun. I was disappointed in carrie's singing and acting ability, but that did not keep me from enjoying the show. I had higher hopes considering her supporting cast, but apparently her primary role in the production was to draw an audience, and as such she did her job. If they wanted a better singer they certainly could have gotten one so that was not the point.

In closing, it does irritate me to hear people belittle what I and my friends and millions of others I don't know work very hard at. I would never call myself a football player just because I throw a football in my backyard but apparently that is the equivalent of what it takes to call yourself a singer these days. Our American culture does not value vocal talent like it used to. We would rather see half-naked bodies dancing around and cranking out auto-tuned albums. I have a chorus of middle-high schoolers right now who, most of them, until this past September, said they had never sang anything in their life. Not in church, not at home, never. (And -- side note -- because I didn't know the "cup song," I didn't know anything about music, according to them. Of course I came back the next day knowing the cup song!). To me that is so sad. To me that is indicative of a culture that doesn't value musical ability as a skill, just as entertainment. Singers even 30 years ago had more skill than the average pop star does today. I had a high school boy who came to me wanting to learn how to conduct so he could try out for drum major. He consistently conducted backwards and after many many corrections finally he said "it doesn't matter! Both ways are right!" No, both ways are not right. I told him to go ask his band director. I don't know if he ever did, but I know he didn't make drum major. Music, like all art, can be a very personal thing, and so taking instruction and correction can be emotional. But you have to if you are going to grow. I still take lessons and my teacher still takes lessons. In fact, right now I am working on bringing my tone more forward. I've been working on that for about a year now.

Anyway now I am just rambling.

Sent from me.
 
I have a friend who sang with me in college (who was better than me) who is now a professional country singer. A girl I currently sing with in the opera sings jazz on the side, and another one is the lead singer of a local indie band. My voice teacher also sings contemporary Christian music. When I'm not singing opera, I sing early sacred works. All of these have stylistic differences but the basics are all the same. I actually lost a vocal student after one lesson a few weeks ago because she couldn't (or rather her mother) couldn't get that. She was about 14, an aspiring contemporary Christian singer with a youtube channel, and at her first lesson I asked her to sing for me. She sang a contem. Christian song, extremely breathy and unsupported. But that is exactly what I expect from 14 and no lessons. I asked her to sing a scale and got the same thing. So I proceeded to explain an exercise I was going to teach her and how we were going to work on breath support and get the breath out of her tone when her mother interjected, "but that's her style. That's what we like, we like breathy." To which I replied that if they liked the breathy sound and wanted it to be her "style" that was fine but as a singer she should be capable of singing a scale properly, and that was my job. I could tell she wasn't trying for the whole rest of the lesson, and she never came back. Voice teachers know this kind of student to be the kind that don't really want to learn, but just want affirmation that they are awesome, and in this case the mother just wanted that too. Breath support would have solved 90% of carrie's problems based on last night alone (the only time I have ever heard her sing live, which is a better indication than a studio recording). No matter what your taste is, the phrase is not "You can (gasp) sing most (gasp) anything!" She did it every single time, which indicates it was deliberate and rehearsed that way. Same thing with all of Amanda segfried's sustained high notes being cut in half in les mis. It is amazing how breath support effects so many things!!! I have another student who had a bad habit of "chewing" her notes (too much jaw movement). She couldn't get through long melisma passages in one breath. I got her to hold her jaw still and all of a sudden without changing anything else she had the breath to get through it! Stylistic differences are one thing but basics are basics.

When I teach music history or theory, I always ask the same question at the very first class -- "what is music?" The answers nearly always have something about "pleasing," " pleasant," or "sounds good." That is wrong. Music is organized sound and silence. It doesn't have to sound good, because what sounds good to you may not sound good to me. In other cultures, "pleasing" is a very dissonant, buzzy tone, and they think our perfect fifths sound "bad." To me jazz sounds like a cat being thrown at a piano but it is still music. If I'm teaching older women I know to expect something about rap not being "real music" but it most certainly is.

I enjoyed the production. It was fun. I was disappointed in carrie's singing and acting ability, but that did not keep me from enjoying the show. I had higher hopes considering her supporting cast, but apparently her primary role in the production was to draw an audience, and as such she did her job. If they wanted a better singer they certainly could have gotten one so that was not the point.

In closing, it does irritate me to hear people belittle what I and my friends and millions of others I don't know work very hard at. I would never call myself a football player just because I throw a football in my backyard but apparently that is the equivalent of what it takes to call yourself a singer these days. Our American culture does not value vocal talent like it used to. We would rather see half-naked bodies dancing around and cranking out auto-tuned albums. I have a chorus of middle-high schoolers right now who, most of them, until this past September, said they had never sang anything in their life. Not in church, not at home, never. (And -- side note -- because I didn't know the "cup song," I didn't know anything about music, according to them. Of course I came back the next day knowing the cup song!). To me that is so sad. To me that is indicative of a culture that doesn't value musical ability as a skill, just as entertainment. Singers even 30 years ago had more skill than the average pop star does today. I had a high school boy who came to me wanting to learn how to conduct so he could try out for drum major. He consistently conducted backwards and after many many corrections finally he said "it doesn't matter! Both ways are right!" No, both ways are not right. I told him to go ask his band director. I don't know if he ever did, but I know he didn't make drum major. Music, like all art, can be a very personal thing, and so taking instruction and correction can be emotional. But you have to if you are going to grow. I still take lessons and my teacher still takes lessons. In fact, right now I am working on bringing my tone more forward. I've been working on that for about a year now.

Anyway now I am just rambling.

Sent from me.

Course you are...:hug:....but that's only because you're passionate. I guessed within seconds that you must have some training or even were a professional even before I saw you mention your music creds on the other thread. I find I do the same thing when people belittle my profession and skill set (I'm a horse trainer and a riding instructor and if I had a dime for every time some clown told me that riding was easy and that anyone could jump a 3' fence or canter a perfect circle and that the horse does all the work anyway, Id be wealthy).
 
Alright, I'll say it. Carrie should have taken one for the team and cut her hair like Maria for the role. Anne Hathaway would have done it! :rotfl:
I am a hairstylist and...just kidding.

JK ;) :flower3:

(My kids don't think I'm funny either. Go ahead, roll your eyes, they do.)
 
I don't think anyone was devaluing your passion or expertise for music, and it was obvious that you had background and knew what you were talking about. I think the confusion/argument was bc of how vehemently you felt that she had not song well, when so many others were fans (btw, I was the one who said 'you can't deny she's good').Many people are able to see the good where more those who are more passionate may only see the bad. In the end I think music is like reading; isn't it better when someone enjoys it in any form, rather than not at all?

Edit: I'm not sure why, but the quote from conservativehippie didn't show, but that was what I was responding to.
 
Course you are...:hug:....but that's only because you're passionate. I guessed within seconds that you must have some training or even were a professional even before I saw you mention your music creds on the other thread. I find I do the same thing when people belittle my profession and skill set (I'm a horse trainer and a riding instructor and if I had a dime for every time some clown told me that riding was easy and that anyone could jump a 3' fence or canter a perfect circle and that the horse does all the work anyway, Id be wealthy).

I can imagine -- my friend wants her 8 year old to have a "horse riding" birthday party but she wants to go somewhere that will let a dozen 6-10 year old just trail ride all by themselves. Um...that is not a good idea!

I find the best students are those that know nothing and know they know nothing. The worst are those that know a little bit and think they know everything. I'm sure you see it too.

Sent from me.
 
I planned on watching it..
I watched it....for about 15 minutes..
It was too painful to watch.
Carrie Underwood is Not an Actor and it was awful beyond words.
I think she is talented musically
but she is a bit too High pitched for my musical tastes.
My expectations were that it would be enjoyable since she can sing, but watching it for those few minutes changed my mind...her voice did not cover the way below par attempt to act......................
I actually felt Bad for her....fire that agent, Carrie :confused3
 
I'm watching it right now on NBC.com and I'm enjoying it. Carrie is not a great actress, but I've always liked her so I'm having fun seeing her try something new. I hope they continue to produce live Broadway type shows like this on TV.
 
I have a friend who sang with me in college (who was better than me) who is now a professional country singer. A girl I currently sing with in the opera sings jazz on the side, and another one is the lead singer of a local indie band. My voice teacher also sings contemporary Christian music. When I'm not singing opera, I sing early sacred works. All of these have stylistic differences but the basics are all the same. I actually lost a vocal student after one lesson a few weeks ago because she couldn't (or rather her mother) couldn't get that. She was about 14, an aspiring contemporary Christian singer with a youtube channel, and at her first lesson I asked her to sing for me. She sang a contem. Christian song, extremely breathy and unsupported. But that is exactly what I expect from 14 and no lessons. I asked her to sing a scale and got the same thing. So I proceeded to explain an exercise I was going to teach her and how we were going to work on breath support and get the breath out of her tone when her mother interjected, "but that's her style. That's what we like, we like breathy." To which I replied that if they liked the breathy sound and wanted it to be her "style" that was fine but as a singer she should be capable of singing a scale properly, and that was my job. I could tell she wasn't trying for the whole rest of the lesson, and she never came back. Voice teachers know this kind of student to be the kind that don't really want to learn, but just want affirmation that they are awesome, and in this case the mother just wanted that too. Breath support would have solved 90% of carrie's problems based on last night alone (the only time I have ever heard her sing live, which is a better indication than a studio recording). No matter what your taste is, the phrase is not "You can (gasp) sing most (gasp) anything!" She did it every single time, which indicates it was deliberate and rehearsed that way. Same thing with all of Amanda segfried's sustained high notes being cut in half in les mis. It is amazing how breath support effects so many things!!! I have another student who had a bad habit of "chewing" her notes (too much jaw movement). She couldn't get through long melisma passages in one breath. I got her to hold her jaw still and all of a sudden without changing anything else she had the breath to get through it! Stylistic differences are one thing but basics are basics.

When I teach music history or theory, I always ask the same question at the very first class -- "what is music?" The answers nearly always have something about "pleasing," " pleasant," or "sounds good." That is wrong. Music is organized sound and silence. It doesn't have to sound good, because what sounds good to you may not sound good to me. In other cultures, "pleasing" is a very dissonant, buzzy tone, and they think our perfect fifths sound "bad." To me jazz sounds like a cat being thrown at a piano but it is still music. If I'm teaching older women I know to expect something about rap not being "real music" but it most certainly is.

I enjoyed the production. It was fun. I was disappointed in carrie's singing and acting ability, but that did not keep me from enjoying the show. I had higher hopes considering her supporting cast, but apparently her primary role in the production was to draw an audience, and as such she did her job. If they wanted a better singer they certainly could have gotten one so that was not the point.

In closing, it does irritate me to hear people belittle what I and my friends and millions of others I don't know work very hard at. I would never call myself a football player just because I throw a football in my backyard but apparently that is the equivalent of what it takes to call yourself a singer these days. Our American culture does not value vocal talent like it used to. We would rather see half-naked bodies dancing around and cranking out auto-tuned albums. I have a chorus of middle-high schoolers right now who, most of them, until this past September, said they had never sang anything in their life. Not in church, not at home, never. (And -- side note -- because I didn't know the "cup song," I didn't know anything about music, according to them. Of course I came back the next day knowing the cup song!). To me that is so sad. To me that is indicative of a culture that doesn't value musical ability as a skill, just as entertainment. Singers even 30 years ago had more skill than the average pop star does today. I had a high school boy who came to me wanting to learn how to conduct so he could try out for drum major. He consistently conducted backwards and after many many corrections finally he said "it doesn't matter! Both ways are right!" No, both ways are not right. I told him to go ask his band director. I don't know if he ever did, but I know he didn't make drum major. Music, like all art, can be a very personal thing, and so taking instruction and correction can be emotional. But you have to if you are going to grow. I still take lessons and my teacher still takes lessons. In fact, right now I am working on bringing my tone more forward. I've been working on that for about a year now.

Anyway now I am just rambling.

Sent from me.

Excellent post!
 
I don't think anyone was devaluing your passion or expertise for music, and it was obvious that you had background and knew what you were talking about. I think the confusion/argument was bc of how vehemently you felt that she had not song well, when so many others were fans (btw, I was the one who said 'you can't deny she's good').Many people are able to see the good where more those who are more passionate may only see the bad. In the end I think music is like reading; isn't it better when someone enjoys it in any form, rather than not at all?

Edit: I'm not sure why, but the quote from conservativehippie didn't show, but that was what I was responding to.

I would say that overall I enjoyed the performance, but I wouldn't say she sang well. I wouldn't deny that some people enjoy her singing, but like conservative hippie I would not be able to say she "sang well" in that performance.

I had heard some brief clips prior to the event and actually had hope that she WOULD sing well, but I think old habits crept in during the performance. It will be interesting to hear some of the CD they made in a studio and see if it was better. It would also be interesting to see, if she does sing "better" on the CD if people who like her regular style like it.

Like Conservative Hippie keeps saying, there are lots of very popular singers who don't "sing well."]

I had to keep reminding myself last night to watch the SHOW. The first scene I was bugged by the nun's because there was a weird glottal note attack thing going on. I had to purposely stop listening critically. When something is live, you have to let it go a bit.
 
I actually lost a vocal student after one lesson a few weeks ago because she couldn't (or rather her mother) couldn't get that. She was about 14, an aspiring contemporary Christian singer with a youtube channel, and at her first lesson I asked her to sing for me. She sang a contem. Christian song, extremely breathy and unsupported. But that is exactly what I expect from 14 and no lessons. I asked her to sing a scale and got the same thing. So I proceeded to explain an exercise I was going to teach her and how we were going to work on breath support and get the breath out of her tone when her mother interjected, "but that's her style. That's what we like, we like breathy."

Wow, 14 and Mommy had to hang around for the lesson? Yeah, she didn't really want a "lesson" for her, did she? She wanted you to praise her little snowflake :rotfl2:
 
Wow, 14 and Mommy had to hang around for the lesson? Yeah, she didn't really want a "lesson" for her, did she? She wanted you to praise her little snowflake :rotfl2:

EXACTLY. And mom emailed me the link to her YouTube channel before the lesson so I could get "familiar" with the girl's voice.

Sent from me.
 
I just read that a couple of women who have a great track record at detecting pregnancy are saying that after watching last nights show that they think Carrie Underwood is expecting. This has nothing to do with her performance, I just thought it was interesting.
 
I just read that a couple of women who have a great track record at detecting pregnancy are saying that after watching last nights show that they think Carrie Underwood is expecting. This has nothing to do with her performance, I just thought it was interesting.

Depending on how far along she is, pregnancy absolutely effects your breath support. Even after just a few months, everything shifts and your diaphragm is harder to control. I was not taking lessons when I got pregnant with my first and learned some bad habits to compensate for less support that I then had to unlearn. This time I am doing much better, but my breath support is not nearly as good as it usually is. There is a video of Natalie Dessay singing the Queen of the Night aria at 4 months pregnant -- she takes it 1/2 step lower and much slower to compensate (insanely incredible!!!!).

Sent from me.
 

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