Jessa Duggar (of the Duggar Family) is courting

[Granny square]

I think we all make judgements. We all feel/believe/follow a certain set of morals and values, even if we think others are wrong for their morals and values (or what we perceive as the lack thereof! )

This is a general public message board. We all come from different world views, just take it as it is, differences of opinion.

It is no skin off my back if someone doesn't like the Duggars or thinks they are over the top with their conservative values, heck, isn't that why they are on TV? If a TV crew came to my house, they would leave very quickly, we are far too boring.

If people don't want to watch, they shouldn't. I have reality TV I can't watch (well, we don't have cable anyway, but you know what I mean.) The Kardashians come to mind as to John and Kate Plus 8 (or whatever it is called now!) They grate on my nerves, so I don't bother watching and getting worked up over it. Is that a JUDGEMENT? You bet your buckaroos it is, and I don't apologize for it, it is my opinion and judgement. You may disagree. So be it.

However, if you aren't attacking the Duggars but are attacking ALL Christians or ALL homeschoolers or ALL whatever, I have an issue with that.

Dawn

Exactly. There are many things other people do that I think are bad for their kids. Luckily children are resilient

Broadbrushing an entire group based on a reality show family or character however is inappropriate, IMO.

 

[chobie]

I think that if people don't want to be judged than they shouldn't be in a reality show for all the world to see. I firmly believe in privacy and applauding people's lifestyle choices whatever they may be, however when they choose to be in the public eye they can expect to be judged for what they share with the public.

Exactly. This is not just some family that lives down the street that someone decided to pick on. They pimp their children and their lifestyle on tv. They even go on GMA to announce their pregnancies, but, oh, one shan't say anything bad about them lest one be considered to be bashing all conservative Christians...

 

[chobie]

The Duggar parents can control their kid's IQs? Hmm, I need to find out how that's done.

Google "IQ and environment. "

 

[NY Disney fan]

I didn't read this whole thread but I just wanted to say Jessa grew up to be so pretty!

 

[TeresaNJ]

That would be 'blanket training.'

They put a baby on a blanket and whip it when the baby goes off the blanket. After enough switches, the baby learns not to leave the blanket. Not only does it teach the child to submit at a very young age, it also is the start of curbing any natural curiosity a child may have.

If this were done to a puppy, it would be considered animal abuse.

The children are all happy smiles because they are beat into submission. The Duggars follow the Pearl's "train up a child" discipline method. The method calls for absolute obedience. Even a bad attitude is considered disobedience. The method suggests beginning to spank your children at around six months, and to spank a disobedient child until that child submits completely. Complete submission to the parent’s will is the hallmark of the method.

Here is a quote from the Train Up A Child Book:
If you are just beginning to institute training on an already rebellious child, who runs from discipline and is too incoherent to listen, then use whatever force is necessary to bring him to bay. If you have to sit on him to spank him then do not hesitate. And hold him there until he is surrendered. Prove that you are bigger, tougher, more patiently enduring and are unmoved by his wailing. Defeat him totally. Accept no conditions for surrender. No compromise. You are to rule over him as a benevolent sovereign. Your word is final. (To Train Up A Child, page 49)

The Duggars are huge fans of Bill Gothard. When their children show signs of rebellion, they have been sent to Bill Gothard's re-education camps, which have been exposed for physical and emotional abuse. Josh was sent there and so were some of the girls. They all returned much subdued.

Following Gothard and Pearl's doctrines, children are to be taught that happy is the only acceptable emotion. Any other emotion is a personal offense to the parents. The discipline doctrines counsel to beat the child longer and harder until they are cheerful. So, they learn at a very early age to always look happy, otherwise they are in for a good beating. As they get older and more indoctrinated, they truly believe that anything but being happy is a sin.

And you know this how? Maybe if you read the Duggar's book, you would know what you are talking about. The bashers on this thread are again showing their hypocrisy. This is what the DIS Community Board is all about now. If you don't agree with the current Christian bashing/pro gay marriage/liberal view, you are bashed. So sad that it was once a nice place to visit and hang out. So many of the posters who were here for years have left, due to how this board has changed. It's really a shame. Would love to see threads on how Muslim women are treated by men, how they are forced to dress and conduct their lives, etc.

Oh yea, I am an RN, and have worked with quite a few physicians of Indian descent, who are in arranged marriages. Anyone up for starting a bashing thread about that? No, didn't think so.

 

[luvmy3]

I think that if people don't want to be judged than they shouldn't be in a reality show for all the world to see. I firmly believe in privacy and applauding people's lifestyle choices whatever they may be, however when they choose to be in the public eye they can expect to be judged for what they share with the public.

As long as you are profiting form the exploitation of you and your family's lifestyle you deserve every ounce of judgment you get about said lifestyle. There will be those who love and respect you (and ironically judge you with praise), and there will be those who don't and judge you with disgust. If you are willing to take all the positive then you should be just as willing to take the negative too.

 

[Uncle Remus]

I realize this family rubs a lot of people the wrong way but I found this interesting.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20735445,00.html

She's 20 and has to ask permission to text her potential husband? I find that odd. I'm not against the Duggars by any means but this seems too overprotective.

Makes me glad my parents raised me to be independent, when I was 20, I was enlisting in the military.

 

[Colleen27]

With what, a homeschool "diploma" and the clothes on her back? That would make for such a great future for her. She is pretty much stuck with whatever marriage her father arranges for her.

Exactly. And that's my problem with them - in this day and age, I don't think any family should be limiting their daughters' education to domestic matters with the expectation that marriage and children will be the sole focus of her life. And it is disingenuous to say that the kids can leave once they reach adulthood - leaving without a well-rounded education, no college or career training, no job skills or experience, and the stigma of being part of that family is a road to homelessness and hunger, and I'm sure none of the kids are sheltered enough to be ignorant of that basic fact.

I also think it is telling that so many fans of the Duggars talk about their good-looking/beautiful kids, as though they're dogs to be commended for their good breeding rather than people to be valued for their accomplishments.

 

[rszdtrvl]

While I don't believe in everything the Duggar family does, I am happy for Jessa finding a potential husband. They all deserve to be happy, regardless on the way they were raised.

Regarding the midwifery thing - I had a midwife, and am so glad that there are more out there! I would not have changed a thing with the birth of my son (in a house - not in a hospital - with calm music playing and candles lit) and the only way it would have been possible is with a midwife. I am thrilled that a couple of the Duggar girls are training in that profession!!

 

[Colleen27]

And you know this how? Maybe if you read the Duggar's book, you would know what you are talking about. The bashers on this thread are again showing their hypocrisy. This is what the DIS Community Board is all about now. If you don't agree with the current Christian bashing/pro gay marriage/liberal view, you are bashed. So sad that it was once a nice place to visit and hang out. So many of the posters who were here for years have left, due to how this board has changed. It's really a shame. Would love to see threads on how Muslim women are treated by men, how they are forced to dress and conduct their lives, etc.

Oh yea, I am an RN, and have worked with quite a few physicians of Indian descent, who are in arranged marriages. Anyone up for starting a bashing thread about that? No, didn't think so.

Well, if the topic were women's rights in Muslim nations or arranged marriages in general I'd have some strong opinions on those as well. But it is ridiculous to think that disliking the Duggars translates into judgment of all conservative Christians, or to acceptance of other cultures that do similar things. I just don't happen to think "But so-and-so is worse!" is a valid defense of anything.

The fact is, the Duggars put themselves out there. That's why there are threads about them, just like there was a thread not long ago bashing Miley Cyrus for acting so trampy. Nationally-known personalities are a common subject of conversation; your co-workers that none of us have met not so much.

 

[erin1715]

And you know this how? Maybe if you read the Duggar's book, you would know what you are talking about. The bashers on this thread are again showing their hypocrisy. This is what the DIS Community Board is all about now. If you don't agree with the current Christian bashing/pro gay marriage/liberal view, you are bashed. So sad that it was once a nice place to visit and hang out. So many of the posters who were here for years have left, due to how this board has changed. It's really a shame. Would love to see threads on how Muslim women are treated by men, how they are forced to dress and conduct their lives, etc.

Oh yea, I am an RN, and have worked with quite a few physicians of Indian descent, who are in arranged marriages. Anyone up for starting a bashing thread about that? No, didn't think so.

I would expand that and say that is what this country is all about now. Preaching tolerance as long as you agree with the mainstream view.

 

[grassmower]

Anybody surprised that the Duggar children were indoctrinated to grow up to be intolerant, judgemental ****** (word would not be family friendly)?.

Speaking of intolerant and judgemental. Hey pot it's the kettle!!

 

[Uncle Remus]

Too bad the show won't be delving into Josh's lifestyle away from the show.

Anybody surprised that the Duggar children were indoctrinated to grow up to be intolerant, judgemental ****** (word would not be family friendly)?

That Josh would go work for one of the worst hate organizations was pretty much his destiny.

Speaking of intolerant and judgemental. Hey pot it's the kettle!!

I hope you understand when one party seeks to deny LGBT Americans equal rights, the opposing party can't/won't/shouldn't agree with the first party.
And silence would just be complicit.

 

[grassmower]

I hope you understand when one party seeks to deny LGBT Americans equal rights, the opposing party can't/won't/shouldn't agree with the first party.
And silence would just be complicit.

Silence isn't required, however it always turns into name calling (aka bigot, homophobe, etc..). It's the apsolute attitude of you have accept my lifestyle, or your this (insert names from above) that I find hugely hypocritical.

LGBT supporters can call anyone that disagrees with them any name they like and get a pat on the back, but if someone were to call a LGBT a nasty name they're labeled (insert names above).

 

[Disney Ella]

Well, if the topic were women's rights in Muslim nations or arranged marriages in general I'd have some strong opinions on those as well. But it is ridiculous to think that disliking the Duggars translates into judgment of all conservative Christians, or to acceptance of other cultures that do similar things. I just don't happen to think "But so-and-so is worse!" is a valid defense of anything.

The fact is, the Duggars put themselves out there. That's why there are threads about them, just like there was a thread not long ago bashing Miley Cyrus for acting so trampy. Nationally-known personalities are a common subject of conversation; your co-workers that none of us have met not so much.

I feel sad for anyone forced into an arranged marriage, no matter what the culture or religion. My DH has worked with several Indian men whose parents forced them into arranged marriages when they would have much rather chosen their own wives. Things got very messy when the marriages fell apart.

Things I find disturbing about the Duggars are:

The subjugation of women and the limited roles available to women. If you choose to be a SAHM or SAHD, that's great, but these girls don't have a choice. They've been indoctrinated from a young age, and to them, it would be sacrilege to think that maybe they deserve a real education, a job of their own choosing and a social and dating life.

Requiring the older girls to care for the younger children. I know someone will say, "Well, my grandmother had 10 children and everyone helped out. I see nothing wrong with it." One of my grandmothers also had 10 children, and while the older ones did help with the younger ones, they were permitted to have friends and lives of their own. They were not solely responsible for diapering, feeding, supervising and getting up in the night with a two-year-old.

Lack of faith in the children to behave appropriately. If the children are as devout as the Duggars say, why aren't they trusted to go out in the world, pick their own job (outside of the approved list) and choose their own mates? Why supervise adults to the point that you insist on reading their texts? It's obvious that they really don't trust their children.

The hypocrisy of Jim Bob and Michelle. They got to experience friends, dating, cheerleading and being on a roller skating team and didn't turn into sex-crazed, devil worshipping fiends. Yet, they won't even allow their children to choose their own friends. The parents have the ultimate authority and it's wrong and disrepectful to challenge them. So why wasn't it wrong for Jim Bob and Michelle to disregard their parents' beliefs and and convert to fundamentalism?

Promoting the idea that men are completely obsessed with sex and can't control themselves, so, of course, the women must make sure they don't so much as show a collarbone or a knee for fear that they might tempt one of those feeble-minded men. Meanwhile, the men wear whatever they want. My husband finds it offensive that anyone would think he's incapable of controlling himself if a women walks by with two buttons undone on her shirt or if he sees a women in a bathing suit on the beach.

 

[Colleen27]

I would expand that and say that is what this country is all about now. Preaching tolerance as long as you agree with the mainstream view.

I don't think it is limited to the mainstream at all. It comes from both sides, majority views and less popular positions, and from all angles. We're a culture of black and white, right and wrong, and have little patience for the notion of respectful disagreement or the idea that opposing views can both be equally valid.

 

[JaneBanks]

Goes both ways though doesn't it though. Silence on party A would be complicit as well wouldn't you say. The problem is if the LGBT American's don't get this silence they resort to calling names. That is the hyprocisy that no one wants to recognize.

Well, I would call names too if someone was trying to turn me in to a second class citizen and tell me that I don't deserve something that other people get freely. Now, if the LGBT community were telling straight couples that they can't get married, and passed a law, I would be calling the LGBT names too.

Oh and by the way, LGBT get called lots of names by bigots on a daily bases. F**, Qu***, etc.

 

[Uncle Remus]

Goes both ways though doesn't it though. Silence on party A would be complicit as well wouldn't you say. The problem is if the LGBT American's don't get this silence they resort to calling names. That is the hyprocisy that no one wants to recognize.

The real irony is there are multitudes of Christians and Conservatives too who support equality for LGBTs .

 

[JaneBanks]

The real irony is there are multitudes of Christians and Conservatives too who support equality for LGBTs .

Very true!

 

[CPT Tripss]

College Plus is a viable program.

It is unfortunate that they are quoting these particular people as it may rub many the wrong way, but it is a decent program.

Maybe "mainstream" is the wrong word in this context. Homeschooling itself is not really mainstream at all when you think about it, but the curricula I mentioned and CollegePlus are mainstream within the homeschool community and they do follow the general guidelines set by most educational experts.

The comment was made that they use ATI, which is Bill Gothard. I would agree that ATI is not mainstream by any community other than, well, ATI followers.

I can't wrap by brain around an assertion that something is "mainstream" when it is just one, of many, methods employed by a small group which is decidedly not "mainstream," i.e. homeschoolers.

Exactly. There are many things other people do that I think are bad for their kids. Luckily children are resilient

Broadbrushing an entire group based on a reality show family or character however is inappropriate, IMO.

Children that have "submitted" are anything but resilient.