What is direct worth?

[jerseyduke]

Just browsing some resale contracts and saw some BVC that had an asking price of 115, 117 per point(more than some BLT contracts)....they are loaded...

So I ask, what is buying direct worth? Now I realize, BCV direct would have to be via waitlist.

But unrestricted points, no ROFR, etc, etc.

What, if any, premium are direct points worth? To me, 13$ per point for resale does not seem to be enough of a discount...

 

[DizBub]

Just browsing some resale contracts and saw some BVC that had an asking price of 115, 117 per point(more than some BLT contracts)....they are loaded...

So I ask, what is buying direct worth? Now I realize, BCV direct would have to be via waitlist.

But unrestricted points, no ROFR, etc, etc.

What, if any, premium are direct points worth? To me, 13$ per point for resale does not seem to be enough of a discount...

You may be right if they are actually getting $115/$117 pp. Makes me feel all the better that we bought our loaded BCV last year for $72. Who knew resale prices would go through the roof? End date is still 2042 though......VGF may be the better deal these days. And no waiting.

 

[JimMIA]

To me, it's worth $0.00.

I look at buying DVC the same way I'd look at buying a car. If one dealer will sell me the same car for $1,000 less than another, I'd buy the best deal. The only difference with DVC is the savings are MUCH greater than my example.

The restrictions on resale points are, IMHO, a blessing in disguise for prospective buyers because they force us to focus on the real value of DVC, not the timeshare salesman's spiel. If you research the points costs, additional cash fees and limitations of the restricted options, I think you'll realize very quickly that they are worthless.

The real value is using your points for DVC stays, and everything else is just gravy -- and none of those "perks" are guaranteed to either direct or resale owners, BTW.

The only real advantage I see to buying direct is buying a very small contract that you can't find on the resale market.

People cite getting your points right away rather than waiting for the resale process. If I were spending $20,000 or so on a timeshare, I'd wonder how really important that 6-8 weeks delay was in the context of a 30-50 year ownership.

Is a quick reservation really worth it? If they think so, maybe they might want to slow things down a little and think about what they're doing.

Another common "benefit" of buying direct is to buy at new resorts before resales start popping up. Really? Why not just buy something else resale for half the price and book at the new resort at 7 months?

I think the real reason many purchase direct is because they have to finance and Disney has easy (but very expensive) financing. They'll give you a million "justifications," but that's the reason.

Incidentally, there's another almost identical thread here: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3168856

 

[NHTikiBeckie]

I agree with the above poster, to me it's worth 0.

BCV isn't selling at $115 per point for resale right now anyway. Even if it was, using points for cruises, adventures by Disney, etc are a terrible use of points and I wouldn't use that as a reason to buy direct.

 

[bakerworld]

Depends on what's more important to you - your time or your wallet.

For an initial contract resale is very doable - don't buy too big of a contract, have the cash ready to pay, offer lower than asking and don't make any Disney vacation plans until you see the final papers show up which should take around 2 to 4 months after your initial offer.

 

[TheDadHatter]

I disagree with JimMIA. I just purchased at the GFV and did a cash purchase. The interest rates are pretty high I felt at 11.9. I feel more comfortable dealing with Disney Direct. I know a lot of people will disagree but to me it is like buying a mortgage or insurance. It might cost me a little more but the assurance is worth more to me at the end.

 

[Breyean]

I disagree with JimMIA. I just purchased at the GFV and did a cash purchase. The interest rates are pretty high I felt at 11.9. I feel more comfortable dealing with Disney Direct. I know a lot of people will disagree but to me it is like buying a mortgage or insurance. It might cost me a little more but the assurance is worth more to me at the end.

Interesting because if you are buying VGF now direct is pretty much the only option. There have been only two resales available to my knowledge so far.

But what "assurance" do you mean? Are you referring to the purchase process itself or the fear that Disney might ROFR you or impose further restrictions down the line on resales?

 

[DenLo]

To me it would be a strict dollar comparison.

I know before the prices tanked in 2010 we bought direct if resale didn't save us more than $300. It wasn't worth the 60 days processing time and worry about ROFR IMO for $300 difference. We always include all expensives including closing costs and annual dues to compare resale versus direct.

Since 2010 we have only purchased Aulani direct as there were too few resale contracts to match our UY. And DVC would probably ROFRd a resale contract anyway to remove a subsidized dues contract.

 

[Bellecruiser]

I think the answer to your question is, like most things in life, it depends. We bought about half our points resale and half through Disney direct. We bought all the resale points prior to the change in the rules that narrowed our usage.

Everything JimMIA says is true. We recently bought VGF and it was great to be able to buy two small contracts, get them right away, and book a vacation there. We also bought a small BCV contract thru Disney, because we couldn't find what we were looking for in the resale market (small points and rare use year).

We mostly use our points to stay on property, but not always. Even though it's not a good use of our points (as everyone here tells you) we do use them for cruises and stays at the hotels, but we pay cash for them too. Honestly, I like having maximum flexibility. Is it worth it? it is a lot of extra money...but...

 

[nd43]

To say there is zero value in buying direct is ridiculous.

Here are a few:

- Dealing with only one organization in the buying process vs. an unknown third party seller, agent, and closing company where things can and have "gone bad" during a resale selling process... just read the boards for examples.
- Not dealing with ROFR where many weeks can pass and you must start all over... back to square one. At least with direct, you make some progress on the wait list during such intervals. In resale, you start all over.
- Ability to break your purchase down into any "point chunks" that fit your needs easily (vs. one large contract)
- not having large delays even after closing for points to be loaded, etc.
- being on the better side of any future decisions Disney might make on resale - at least you are aligned to Disney's best future interest
- having more options with your points no matter how many times people claim they are "worthless". Many DVC owners use these additional options and enjoy them. So, clearly, they are not worthless to many current DVC owners.
- buying new resorts prior to ever having a robust resale option


Resale can save meaningful money. It is very often worth it. However, people are going too far when they claim direct has zero value. We paid cash, went direct for VGF, and are very happy we did.

We had and will continue to have benefits resale people will not. Is it worth it to everyone, no. Is it worthless, of course not. If I could sell you a direct or resale contract at exactly the same price, you would be silly to buy the resale one. However, some are now stating there is absolutely no difference. Silly.

 

[sparkhill]

Direct has some advantages: time, closing costs and points. Direct purchases are quick and the closing costs are included. On a small contract, the closing costs are a significant cost for resale. You also get points for the current year when you buy direct.

I purchased resale because these advantages were small for me.

 

[NHTikiBeckie]

To say there is zero value in buying direct is ridiculous.

Here are a few:

- Dealing with only one organization in the buying process vs. an unknown third party seller, agent, and closing company where things can and have "gone bad" during a resale selling process... just read the boards for examples.
- Not dealing with ROFR where many weeks can pass and you must start all over... back to square one. At least with direct, you make some progress on the wait list during such intervals. In resale, you start all over.
- Ability to break your purchase down into any "point chunks" that fit your needs easily (vs. one large contract)
- not having large delays even after closing for points to be loaded, etc.
- being on the better side of any future decisions Disney might make on resale - at least you are aligned to Disney's best future interest
- having more options with your points no matter how many times people claim they are "worthless". Many DVC owners use these additional options and enjoy them. So, clearly, they are not worthless to many current DVC owners.
- buying new resorts prior to ever having a robust resale option


Resale can save meaningful money. It is very often worth it. However, people are going too far when they claim direct has zero value. We paid cash, went direct for VGF, and are very happy we did.

We had and will continue to have benefits resale people will not. Is it worth it to everyone, no. Is it worthless, of course not. If I could sell you a direct or resale contract at exactly the same price, you would be silly to buy the resale one. However, some are now stating there is absolutely no difference. Silly.

I haven't seen anyone say there is no difference between the two. Everyone knows that buying direct is "easier" in terms of paperwork, no ROFR and that you can use your points for all of the collections. But that does not change the fact that to some of us buying direct is still worthless. Are the above criteria important to you? Then direct is obviously valuable to you. No one is discounting that. DVC has lots of personal factors to consider. For us, buying our points at less than half of what direct costs now is invaluable...I could have cared less about the timeline and having to go through a couple companies, it was worth saving several thousand dollars to me. Perhaps worthless is not the best wording, but I would never be able to afford direct prices and none of the incentives do I find alluring, so worthless is the word that coms to mind.

 

[nd43]

so worthless is the word that coms to mind.

I fully understand why people buy resale. It is worth it for many. However, it has always started with the premise it saves money.

However, when two people post the cost difference between resale and direct is worth $0.00 for them they are stating they would pay the same amount for a resale contract as a direct contract. Saving money is, somehow, not relevant to them buying resale.

It is taking the "resale is the best thing since slice bread" comments around here to the extreme.

Resale is about saving money. If you are not saving material money (as measured by the individual making the decision) do not bother with resale. That is common sense advice for new DVC buyers.

 

[Dean]

To say there is zero value in buying direct is ridiculous.

Here are a few:

- Dealing with only one organization in the buying process vs. an unknown third party seller, agent, and closing company where things can and have "gone bad" during a resale selling process... just read the boards for examples.
- Not dealing with ROFR where many weeks can pass and you must start all over... back to square one. At least with direct, you make some progress on the wait list during such intervals. In resale, you start all over.
- Ability to break your purchase down into any "point chunks" that fit your needs easily (vs. one large contract)
- not having large delays even after closing for points to be loaded, etc.
- being on the better side of any future decisions Disney might make on resale - at least you are aligned to Disney's best future interest
- having more options with your points no matter how many times people claim they are "worthless". Many DVC owners use these additional options and enjoy them. So, clearly, they are not worthless to many current DVC owners.
- buying new resorts prior to ever having a robust resale option


Resale can save meaningful money. It is very often worth it. However, people are going too far when they claim direct has zero value. We paid cash, went direct for VGF, and are very happy we did.

We had and will continue to have benefits resale people will not. Is it worth it to everyone, no. Is it worthless, of course not. If I could sell you a direct or resale contract at exactly the same price, you would be silly to buy the resale one. However, some are now stating there is absolutely no difference. Silly.

All else being the same (ease of the process, cost, points, timing) I'd agree with the zero. You get NOTHING of value from having bought resale vs retail if points, resort, etc are all the same. As you point out there are potential method savings which might translate to a simpler and quicker process and that does have some potential value though, IMO, not very much. I don't think there's any real difference in risk done appropriately. And there are other factors such as availability, home resort, number of points and the fixed week issue. IN some cases one can actually get a better contract (more points=loaded) resale than retail.

 

[Dean]

I fully understand why people buy resale. It is worth it for many. However, it has always started with the premise it saves money.

However, when two people post the cost difference between resale and direct is worth $0.00 for them they are stating they would pay the same amount for a resale contract as a direct contract. Saving money is, somehow, not relevant to them buying resale.

It is taking the "resale is the best thing since slice bread" comments around here to the extreme.

Resale is about saving money. If you are not saving material money (as measured by the individual making the decision) do not bother with resale. That is common sense advice for new DVC buyers.

I look at it the other way. The first question one should ask themselves is whether to buy at all. Often, likely most of the time, if there's no difference the most reasonable choice is not to buy at all or at least not at that time. At times what you want isn't available retail so resale is then the best option. I think most would agree that IF one has decided to buy at that price and all else is the same, might as well buy retail as long as the current rules and process are what they are.

 

[NHTikiBeckie]

I fully understand why people buy resale. It is worth it for many. However, it has always started with the premise it saves money.

However, when two people post the cost difference between resale and direct is worth $0.00 for them they are stating they would pay the same amount for a resale contract as a direct contract. Saving money is, somehow, not relevant to them buying resale.

It is taking the "resale is the best thing since slice bread" comments around here to the extreme.

Resale is about saving money. If you are not saving material money (as measured by the individual making the decision) do not bother with resale. That is common sense advice for new DVC buyers.

I see your point

 

[JimMIA]

The first question one should ask themselves is whether to buy at all.

This is probably the single most important piece of advice any of us could possibly give to any prospective buyer.

It is also THE essential first step in the decision process which is probably skipped more than 50% of the time. People get blinded by pixie dust and never even consider whether there is another way to enjoy it -- much less whether there is a better way to enjoy it.

 

[JimMIA]

Just for the record, I have bought both direct and resale. I bought resale first. Later there was an excellent, honest promotion at SSR and I purchased a 120-point add-on direct.

Obviously, whether or not the speed and relative certainty of a direct purchase is worth anything is a subjective, personal decision.

To me, direct is not worth any premium -- but I am comfortable with purchasing from most of the "Big 4" resellers. I live in Florida, so I am well aware of the regulatory environment for timeshare sales and real estate brokers, and I have also dealt with several of the resale brokers -- so I have a level of comfort some would not have.

It is also my personal opinion is that speed is the enemy of judgement in a timeshare purchase...especially for first-time purchasers.

 

[DougEMG]

To me, it's worth $0.00.

I look at buying DVC the same way I'd look at buying a car. If one dealer will sell me the same car for $1,000 less than another, I'd buy the best deal. The only difference with DVC is the savings are MUCH greater than my example.

The restrictions on resale points are, IMHO, a blessing in disguise for prospective buyers because they force us to focus on the real value of DVC, not the timeshare salesman's spiel. If you research the points costs, additional cash fees and limitations of the restricted options, I think you'll realize very quickly that they are worthless.

The real value is using your points for DVC stays, and everything else is just gravy -- and none of those "perks" are guaranteed to either direct or resale owners, BTW.

The only real advantage I see to buying direct is buying a very small contract that you can't find on the resale market.

People cite getting your points right away rather than waiting for the resale process. If I were spending $20,000 or so on a timeshare, I'd wonder how really important that 6-8 weeks delay was in the context of a 30-50 year ownership.

Is a quick reservation really worth it? If they think so, maybe they might want to slow things down a little and think about what they're doing.

Another common "benefit" of buying direct is to buy at new resorts before resales start popping up. Really? Why not just buy something else resale for half the price and book at the new resort at 7 months?

I think the real reason many purchase direct is because they have to finance and Disney has easy (but very expensive) financing. They'll give you a million "justifications," but that's the reason.

Incidentally, there's another almost identical thread here: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3168856

I agree with you.

 

[nd43]

All else being the same (ease of the process, cost, points, timing) I'd agree with the zero. You get NOTHING of value from having bought resale vs retail if points, resort, etc are all the same. As you point out there are potential method savings which might translate to a simpler and quicker process and that does have some potential value though, IMO, not very much. I don't think there's any real difference in risk done appropriately. And there are other factors such as availability, home resort, number of points and the fixed week issue. IN some cases one can actually get a better contract (more points=loaded) resale than retail.

Dean, to say this, you would have to insist that any future risk of a direct or resale contract having new restrictions or being excluded from future benefits is equal. That does not follow common sense IMO. If you paid exactly the same amount, this difference in probability alone would say buy the direct contract. Even if the difference in probability was 1%, you should buy the direct one.

I would argue this difference is far greater then 1% given the business model of timeshares. So, I think this "no difference" argument has gone to the extreme and becomes very poor advice to people. If the difference in price for resale and direct becomes "meaningless" in terms of financial difference for the individual (which is clearly not the case today for many) a new buyer should buy direct for no other reason then just better future insurance against unknown changes to resale contracts or the inability to access new, still unknown direct benefits. I would argue there are more reasons then this as well, but this reason alone should be sufficient to make the value difference more then zero and tip in favor of direct.