FP+ Details Are Out!

[magicbob]

I wonder how many of us fully understood the whole Fast Pass system the first or second time it was introduced to us.

I keep hearing this "leveling the playing field" concept. What about FP isn't a level playing field? It's free. It's open to anyone in the park. It's been advertised throughout the park the same way for everyone. It's advertised on the Vacation Planning DVD the same way for everyone. The kiosks and return times are posted in the same place for everyone. There has been ample opportunity in the parks for one to learn about FP as it is now. Those who choose not to comprehend what's there now aren't going to comprehend a more complicated system any more than they do the very simple current one.

Yes it is open to all but by its very nature not all can participate. There aren't enough Fast Pass for all guests to have them.

These quotes and others got me to thinking...

For years, we've observed folks who don't know how to use FP or think it costs extra, etc. But discussions about the "unfairness" of the system typically hinge on the false premise that the MAJORITY of WDW guests fall into this category.

It's been repeatedly pointed out that DISers are a small percentage of overall park attendees (and FP uber-super-user-abusers are an even smaller subset of DISers). Yet, every day in every park, every FP for every attraction is typically distributed (admittedly, some faster than others, but that's a function of attraction popularity rather than guests' "FP education level").

The uber-super-user-abusers certainly account for some percentage of those FPs, but if you really think about it, we can't possibly be taking ALL of them.

I submit that, contrary to the conventional wisdom (that even I have accepted in the past), the vast majority of FPs are being used by the "average" guest.

It's true that not EVERY guest can get a FP, even those of us who know how to use/abuse the system have walked up to a kiosk and discovered that all of the FPs for the day have been distributed.

I theorize that the number of guests riding headliners multiple times with FP and maximizing FP usage by obtaining them as soon as they are available have a much smaller impact on the overall availability of FP to the "masses" than we think.

Even with limiting everyone to three FPs to "level the playing field," it's not possible to ensure ALL guests will have FPs available. The only way they are approaching that goal is to offer FP for more attractions (that have never needed it), and increasing the number of FPs available (to the detriment of the SB line).

The reality is that FP is a popular commodity in limited supply. Despite the fact that there ARE some clueless guests, the vast majority DO understand FP, or else TSMM, Soarin', etc. would not run out so quickly.

 

[momof2n2]

All I know is if I was in a stand-by line for Rock n Roller Coaster and saw people just waltzing pass me I think by the time I finished the ride I would be curious to find out how I could do that too? And when you go to actually enter a ride line there is two entrances - stand-by and fastpass - which is a very helpful hint to remind you to ask what does that mean if you did forget since your last ride.

Yes! It would certainly make me curious.

 

[momof2n2]

These quotes and others got me to thinking...

For years, we've observed folks who don't know how to use FP or think it costs extra, etc. But discussions about the "unfairness" of the system typically hinge on the false premise that the MAJORITY of WDW guests fall into this category.

It's been repeatedly pointed out that DISers are a small percentage of overall park attendees (and FP uber-super-user-abusers are an even smaller subset of DISers). Yet, every day in every park, every FP for every attraction is typically distributed (admittedly, some faster than others, but that's a function of attraction popularity rather than guests' "FP education level").

The uber-super-user-abusers certainly account for some percentage of those FPs, but if you really think about it, we can't possibly be taking ALL of them.

I submit that, contrary to the conventional wisdom (that even I have accepted in the past), the vast majority of FPs are being used by the "average" guest.

It's true that not EVERY guest can get a FP, even those of us who know how to use/abuse the system have walked up to a kiosk and discovered that all of the FPs for the day have been distributed.

I theorize that the number of guests riding headliners multiple times with FP and maximizing FP usage by obtaining them as soon as they are available have a much smaller impact on the overall availability of FP to the "masses" than we think.

Even with limiting everyone to three FP to "level the playing field," it's not possible to ensure ALL guests will have FPs available. The only way they are approaching that goal is to offer FP for more attractions (that have never needed it), and increasing the number of FPs available (to the detriment of the SB line).

The reality is that FP is a popular commodity in limited supply. Despite the fact that there ARE some clueless guests, the vast majority DO understand FP, or else TSMM, Soarin', etc. would not run out so quickly.

This is an excellent point that had not dawned on me.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

Um, why can't everyone participate.
All I know is if I was in a stand-by line for Rock n Roller Coaster and saw people just waltzing pass me I think by the time I finished the ride I would be curious to find out how I could do that too? And when you go to actually enter a ride line there is two entrances - stand-by and fastpass - which is a very helpful hint to remind you to ask what does that mean if you did forget since your last ride.

Yes, the people who don't understand FP are the first time visitor that will learn soon, or the 1% that won't get it. It is very easy to understand and it it IN YOUR FACE at every ride that has it.

Some people just don't care!

A suggestion: When you write to Disney, don't just tell them your concerns and what you think might be bad, make suggestions as to what you want and how they could use FP+ to make your experience better. They might use some of these ideas!

There is a reason they keep saying, we don't know in response to your questions!! It is because they don't know. They have not set this in stone, but are researching, testing, and listening. It is a good thing they don't know. That means they are still working it out and may listen to suggestions. Frustrating to not have it all laid out so we would know exactly what to expect? Yes. Is this a good thing? YES!

I see great opportunity to park hop. Rope drop at one park and lots of rides, afternoon break, and FP at the second park!

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

He said they will have to play with numbers, supply and demand of FPs after its rolled out.

This is one of the things that I and some others have been positing for quite some time. I don't see how else they could do it!

You can look at historical data, model scenarios extensively, etc, but until implemented you don't know precisely how it will go.

So you design a flexible system that you can adjust as needed -- which it sounds like they have.

That's entirely different from surmising "they don't have a clue".

 

[ArwenMarie]

For FP, I think they see themselves giving away something that they could be charging for (or using as incentives) like most other large theme parks do. And they think, hey, we could make money on that....why are we "giving" it away.

If they wanted to further educate the masses on using the current FP system, they could. Heck, they could have even built something that used the bands with the current FP system.

 

[d1gitman]

This is what i submitted to WDW, FWIW:

Dear Mr. Overton,



Thanks for the prompt reply. While mildly dissappointed, I certainly understand that our stay does not fit within the parameters of the testing being conducted.



With the testing in mind and the eventual roll-out of the MyMagic+, Fastpass+ and MagicBands I would like to take this opportunity to provide some feedback based on my own thoughts and the numerous discussions I have observed or participated in on the DISboards forum.



The underlying fears I see from people on the DISboards is that many do not want to be locked into prebooking FP+ and feel like they are microplanning their vacation. Additionally, there is the underlying belief that it will be a system that only allows 3 FP+ per park, per day with no ability to obtain additional same day FP+'s. Many doubt the ability to have enough FP+'s to satisfy the prebooking crowd and to accomodate the same day crowd and not create longer standby lines. Additionally there are many detailed questions that people have that are specific to what could be classified as unintended effects of the new system. I also understand that Disney's over all goal with the new system (and possibly was with the current FP system) may not be in line with what many of us have become accustomed to with the current FP system.



My own personal view is that this is first and foremost a mathematical calculation, one in which Disney is the only one who knows all the numbers & statistics. My opinion is that an optimal way to roll this out to the public would be in simple stages. Personally I view the recent change to enforcement of FP return times as a first step to get the guests used to a more defined system. It would make sense to next roll out the MagicBands as nothing more than an electronic replacement to the current FP delivery system. This would get the guests used to the technology without creating radical changes to how guests are used to touring the parks & attractions. As guests adapt to the technology AND Disney is able to work out any issues, new features can be implemented slowly over time. Giving each change the time necessary for both the guests AND Disney to adapt. Additionaly, Disney will be able to see the real time data throughout the various stages of rollout. Ultimately reaching what is the "final" rollout. It seems like a nearly insurmountable task to roll out the system with all the bells and whistles that Disney has stated it will have without having extensive glitches and issues. This is something that we as guests do not want to endure as well as Disney, I'm sure.



A major fear by many of us is the whole IT and technical aspect. As guests, we seemingly are dealing with technical glitches on the website, with reservations and CM's are trying to navigate system glitches on their end. The entire MyMagic+, Fastpass+ and MagicBands is certainly a complex and massive undertaking, one that could be plagued with endless issues ranging from IT and program coding, to Disney crunching the numbers to strike that perfect balance between prebookings, same day guests and those who don't want to be forced to micromanage their vacation in order to enjoy what Disney has to offer and Disney getting the CM's up to speed on their end.



Hopefully Disney has CM's participating on the DISboards and other forums in order to hear what we the guests are discussing. Disney has set the standard and raised the bar for decades in both entertainment and customer service. We as guests don't want to see that dissappear.



Thanks for listening and we look forward to the successful implemenation of MyMagic+, Fastpass+ and MagicBands.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Also meant to add....

I can't ever see the system getting rolled out after trying to do a few things yesterday both in the app and on the website version, including trying to pay thousands of dollars!

Then I was trying to buy a few things on sale at the Disney Store dot com and it kept losing the contents of my bag so I gave up.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

For FP, I think they see themselves giving away something that they could be charging for (or using as incentives) like most other large theme parks do. And they think, hey, we could make money on that....why are we "giving" it away.

And yet so far, unless I've missed it, there is absolutely no indication that they are even considering charging.

I suppose time will tell, but this seems pretty anti-Disney-M.O. to me. They have offerings across demographics (eg line at Target and fancy handbags) and segment in this way. But they've steered clear of differentiating in-park perks within an offering like accommodations as an eg (more FP for deluxe vs value).

Guess we'll see...

 

[Wishes Count]

Stunning. Just stunning that they are so utterly unprepared for the many variables that affect every day touring. That they have literally no idea how they will handle all the various issues and complications of this new system is jaw dropping.

You have to understand that very few CMs have been given information of how this system will work. I will say that almost all of these concerns (ie park hopping, changing parks, missing fast pass times, changing fastpass attractions) have already been thought out and they do know how to handle the new system. Disney needs to train thousands of CMs that will come in contact with the system the most such as Guest Relations, managers and resort front desk cast. The training class is 8 hours long. I can assure you that there are people who will be able to help you who know the answers. But the average CM working an attraction will not know anymore than the general public

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

You have to understand that very few CMs have been given information of how this system will work. I will say that almost all of these concerns (ie park hopping, changing parks, missing fast pass times, changing fastpass attractions) have already been thought out and they do know how to handle the new system. Disney needs to train thousands of CMs that will come in contact with the system the most such as Guest Relations, managers and resort front desk cast. The training class is 8 hours long. I can assure you that there are people who will be able to help you who know the answers. But the average CM working an attraction will not know anymore than the general public

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

Makes perfect sense, of course! In addition to the fact that with testing ongoing, etc., the exact details are not fully known -- which also makes sense.

I would only say that Disney should be adamant with all employees that if they are NOT one of the few currently trained and/or specifically assigned to field FP+ questions, that they do nothing more than deliver an accurate prepared line -- e.g. still in testing, some currently being trained, not all are, details will be forthcoming as soon as finalized, etc. Then direct guests to where they can provide feedback. Period.

Seems like that SHOULD BE simple enough training for all to receive. It would behoove Disney not to have their own employees spreading misinformation.

 

[wdwlver]

You have to understand that very few CMs have been given information of how this system will work. I will say that almost all of these concerns (ie park hopping, changing parks, missing fast pass times, changing fastpass attractions) have already been thought out and they do know how to handle the new system. Disney needs to train thousands of CMs that will come in contact with the system the most such as Guest Relations, managers and resort front desk cast. The training class is 8 hours long. I can assure you that there are people who will be able to help you who know the answers. But the average CM working an attraction will not know anymore than the general public

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

I totally understand that but was more referring to the folks who are calling people in response to emails.
It could be that they do know more than they are saying but they aren't ready to share more concrete details.

 

[mom2rtk]

You have to understand that very few CMs have been given information of how this system will work. I will say that almost all of these concerns (ie park hopping, changing parks, missing fast pass times, changing fastpass attractions) have already been thought out and they do know how to handle the new system. Disney needs to train thousands of CMs that will come in contact with the system the most such as Guest Relations, managers and resort front desk cast. The training class is 8 hours long. I can assure you that there are people who will be able to help you who know the answers. But the average CM working an attraction will not know anymore than the general public

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

These people are not asking their Disney bus driver about FP+.

They have emailed a letter expressing concerns about the new system and are talking with the representative Disney CHOSE to call them back. If Disney chooses someone who is uninformed then that's not very confidence building.

 

[mom2rtk]

I totally understand that but was more referring to the folks who are calling people in response to emails.
It could be that they do know more than they are saying but they aren't ready to share more concrete details.

If they have answers they cannot share, then it's perfectly fine to say "We are working on that". But I really am shocked at the number of "We don't know" answers. Seriously shocked. Maybe they just need to better train the folks making those calls. Or maybe they don't have answers. Neither makes me think highly of Disney in how this is being handled.

 

[doconeill]

If they have answers they cannot share, then it's perfectly fine to say "We are working on that". But I really am shocked at the number of "We don't know" answers. Seriously shocked. Maybe they just need to better train the folks making those calls. Or maybe they don't have answers. Neither makes me think highly of Disney in how this is being handled.

I think they are trying to figure out the mob mentality and how it will affect things. They don't know how the crowds will react yet, so they don't know availability at what stage, etc.

One thing is for certain, they know how DISers will react.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

If they have answers they cannot share, then it's perfectly fine to say "We are working on that". But I really am shocked at the number of "We don't know" answers. Seriously shocked. Maybe they just need to better train the folks making those calls. Or maybe they don't have answers. Neither makes me think highly of Disney in how this is being handled.

Isn't this semantics? I agree that they could have a bit more... finesse with these calls -- at least it sounds that way from some of the reports here. But "we're not sure because all of this is still in testing and we are continually incorporating feedback" is kinda' a more polished way of saying what they seem to be telling people in all reports.

If we were hearing: "This is set in stone. This is how it's going to be." I'd be worried!!

 

[mom2rtk]

I think they are trying to figure out the mob mentality and how it will affect things. They don't know how the crowds will react yet, so they don't know availability at what stage, etc.

One thing is for certain, they know how DISers will react.

Given the unprecedented nature of this, I can totally understand that. I'm just saying "We're working on that" or "The testing will help us determine that" is a whole lot better than "We don't know" to a person who takes time to write expressing their concerns.

 

[Shaden]

This is one of the things that I and some others have been positing for quite some time. I don't see how else they could do it!

You can look at historical data, model scenarios extensively, etc, but until implemented you don't know precisely how it will go.

So you design a flexible system that you can adjust as needed -- which it sounds like they have.

That's entirely different from surmising "they don't have a clue".

I can understand that interpretation, but I don't share it. Yes they are creating a flexible system, which I agree is hopeful, but they really don't seem to have a clue about HOW they are going to use that system.

I do, long term, share some of your optimism, although in my case I would call it hope. I HOPE they use this system to ensure my trips to Disney continue to be awesome, but I worry, they wont. I worry they will dramatically change the feel, and the utility of my vacation time.

But I think this is also one of the biggest problems, if they don't KNOW how the system is going to be implemented, how in the heck can we have any faith in booking vacations during its roll out ?

It appears more and more that they are just going to have to feel this thing out, their testing is completely bogus (other then testing systems that is, but not how the system will actually function, since they have said they don't know how it will actually function).

The real testing is going to happen while people are on vacation, paying thousands of dollars, using their limited supply of vacation, to be guinea pigs. That is a scary thought to me ...

 

[ArwenMarie]

And yet so far, unless I've missed it, there is absolutely no indication that they are even considering charging.

I suppose time will tell, but this seems pretty anti-Disney-M.O. to me. They have offerings across demographics (eg line at Target and fancy handbags) and segment in this way. But they've steered clear of differentiating in-park perks within an offering like accommodations as an eg (more FP for deluxe vs value).

Guess we'll see...

Oh there hasn't been any indication of that from WDW. That is just my speculation and opinion.

I don't think they will charge for some level of FP access (maybe the base number of 3 that we keep hearing about?). But I could see them using the system to charge for extra in the future or as resort incentives instead of free dining and room discounts. But this will all take a very long time IMO.

 

[mom2rtk]

Isn't this semantics? I agree that they could have a bit more... finesse with these calls -- at least it sounds that way from some of the reports here. But "we're not sure because all of this is still in testing and we are continually incorporating feedback" is kinda' a more polished way of saying what they seem to be telling people in all reports.

If we were hearing: "This is set in stone. This is how it's going to be." I'd be worried!!

Sorry, I'm a marketing person. And I've always assumed Disney was pretty decent at marketing. Semantics are important.