FP+ Details Are Out!

[SRUAlmn]

I apologize if it was my comment that mislead you. I only posted because I had read (from previous posts) that one way WDW might handle non-package guests being able to schedule fastpasses would be by having the guests link their tickets into MDE. Which caused me to think, what about those of us with no tickets in hand yet, and for whom Disney doesn't have the ticket info, as in my case this summer, when the Disney Meetings CM asked if I wanted to purchase from them. I don't, because mine already were purchased indirectly via the conference. I suppose they could streamline the way this is done so that Disney would have my ressie linked to my conference tickets, or they could let convention guests book FP+ regardless of whether they had any linked tickets at all. But that would be speculation on my part. As of now, I don't know how they will handle that. Again, I'm just as glad to let someone else be the guinea pig.

NO problem! I'm GLAD I misunderstood I know we're all trying to figure this all out, so no worries!

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

So basically, attractions that were previously walk-on or with very little waiting time will now increase to have an actual wait in a standby-line. Just so guests in a E-ticket attractions standby-line can maybe wait a few minutes less? All for crowd control?

To me, that's a benefit for Disney and not a good trade off for guests.

Not a good tradeoff for some guests (many here, clearly), perhaps, depending on whether you see the pre-booking feature as a benefit or not, and how you weight these things.

I suspect the vast majority of guests are pretty "uneducated". To them, waiting a little longer for IASW (which most won't know is relatively longer as compared to now) but not as long (a more "manageable" wait time) for Space Mountain probably FEELS better... even if the total wait is the same.

Throw in some interactive queues, and perhaps one can argue the OVERALL EXPERIENCE feels significantly better -- got to have two more balanced, entertaining experiences. Perhaps.

I could see this being the theory, at least. How it works out, we'll see.


ETA: I'm not sure how better crowd control (on its own) can be seen as much of a benefit for Disney UNLESS it increases guest satisfaction overall. Just in staffing levels by attraction (staff distribution, if you will)? Doesn't seem like much of a benefit to Disney at all. It's increased satisfaction that begins the wonderful cascade for Disney of more repeat business, better word of mouth, new/increased business for their other-than-parks SBU's, etc.

 

[wdwlver]

I can't help but feel this is not going to work for the way *my* family tours. I'm trying to give disney benefit of doubt but even when I myself spoke to someone in guest communications I was told that "limits" were necessary to ensure all guests had access. I don't know about anyone else but every year we pay more and more $ to go to wdw and we are now having our access to fp being limited. That doesn't strike me as a good deal. Everyone is different and I'm sure there are plenty of folks that are fine waiting in long standby lines in middle of summer but we aren't. We normally fp at least 5 rides at mk. And that was before new fantasyland opened.

Just so happy my next trip is next week and we will be spared all these upcoming changes.

 

[Shaden]

Not a good tradeoff for some guests (many here, clearly), perhaps, depending on whether you see the pre-booking feature as a benefit or not, and how you weight these things.

I suspect the vast majority of guests are pretty "uneducated". To them, waiting a little longer for IASW (which most won't know is relatively longer as compared to now) but not as long (a more "manageable" wait time) for Space Mountain probably FEELS better... even if the total wait is the same.

Throw in some interactive queues, and perhaps one can argue the OVERALL EXPERIENCE feels significantly better -- got to have two more balanced, entertaining experiences. Perhaps.

I could see this being the theory, at least. How it works out, we'll see.


ETA: I'm not sure how better crowd control (on its own) can be seen as much of a benefit for Disney UNLESS it increases guest satisfaction overall. Just in staffing levels by attraction (staff distribution, if you will)? Doesn't seem like much of a benefit to Disney at all. It's increased satisfaction that begins the wonderful cascade for Disney of more repeat business, better word of mouth, new/increased business for their other-than-parks SBU's, etc.

I can't help but feeling this is not going to work for the way *my* family tours. I'm trying to give disney benefit of doubt but even when I myself spoke to someone in guest communications I was told that "limits" were necessary to ensure all guests had access. I don't know about anyone else but every year we pay more and more $ to go to wdw and we are now having our access to fp being limited. That doesn't strike me as a good deal. Everyone is different and I'm sure there are plenty of folks that are fine waiting in long standby lines in middle of summer but we aren't. We normally fp at least 5 rides at mk. And that was before new fantasyland opened.

Just so happy my next trip is next week and we will be spared all these upcoming changes.

MMM I can totally see your point there, although that is still assuming that there are same day passes and/or that headliners don't book completely in pre-booking and there is some magic automatic balance that takes place between attactions. I imagine that if the people less in the know showed up and couldn't get on Space Mountain, they would be none too happy, the same way people who are planning a trip, if they can't book Space Mountain, are going to be none too happy

I guess one of the central things to the equation between these two posts is this: How much of Disney's business is return guests ? Currently that its ...

I mean, if the whole point of FP+ is to drum up more return guests, then what are the current numbers ? And if those people keep returning because they like things they way they are now, how will introducing this FP+ effect that ?

I know the people on these boards aren't exactly the average Diser, or even the average return diser, but I have talked about FP+ with some friends who don't use these boards, but make a trip once a year or two, and none of them like the sound of it. And to be fair, even with the ones who didn't know about it, I tried to explain it without tainting their thoughts, just kind of laid it out, 3 FPs, prebooked at 60 days, only in one park per day, not sure about same day FPs etc ...

 

[d1gitman]

I can't help but feeling this is not going to work for the way *my* family tours. I'm trying to give disney benefit of doubt but even when I myself spoke to someone in guest communications I was told that "limits" were necessary to ensure all guests had access. I don't know about anyone else but every year we pay more and more $ to go to wdw and we are now having our access to fp being limited. That doesn't strike me as a good deal. Everyone is different and I'm sure there are plenty of folks that are fine waiting in long standby lines in middle of summer but we aren't. We normally fp at least 5 rides at mk. And that was before new fantasyland opened.

Just so happy my next trip is next week and we will be spared all these upcoming changes.

i'm not sure how one relates to the other. cost will always go up and FP is no charge.

it's interesting how many people seem to be in an uproar over FP+ possibly taking away their ability to do headliners as much as they can cram in. that somehow the FP+ will not be as "good" all because it isn't fair that we are all used to utilizing & manipulating the FP systemt our advantage. yet our own usage (probably over usage by Disney's calculations) of the current system is actually unfair to those who aren't as blessed as us to know how to maximize it. So now Disney comes up with something that may level the playing field but still afford us some benefit and that is bad? trust me, i will miss the ability to max my usage of FP just like i miss the ability to stack FP's pre enforcement of return times, but in the end, they are still creating a system where we all are playing int he same sandbox.

if Disney were to go back to NO fastpass system would people complain? after all, wouldn't that be the fairest? for me, some fastpass is better than no fastpass, and if everyone in the park is moviing around thru attractions quicker as a whole, then i can see where that will benefit us all as a whole.

 

[ZephyrHawk]

So, DH and I were in Disney last week and we had a conversation with a CM about Fastpass Plus. Just so you guys know, this CM works in Disney restaurants, but is in a manager position. Apparently, Disney handed out Fastpass+ bands to its managers' families and encouraged them to use them in the parks so that they would know what it was all about. This CM even showed DH and I the custom bands that were developed for his family members. I'm telling you all this to give some legitimacy to the information I'm passing on, but I have to say it is still hearsay.

So, we mentioned that the rumors we'd heard about magic bands and only having 3 FP picks per day made us unsure whether they were a good idea or not. He indicated that he thought they weren't limited to 3 per day, but rather, 3 at one time. Basically, you sign up for 3, but once one is gone, you can sign up for another FP to fill that slot. He seemed really impressed with the new system and thought it was a great idea. We didn't ask about transferability between parks or the other questions people have brought up here because it didn't come up (plus, the CM was busy and we didn't want to bother him further).

Anyways, that's just what we heard. Thought I'd feed the rumor mill.

 

[wdwlver]

i'm not sure how one relates to the other. cost will always go up and FP is no charge.

it's interesting how many people seem to be in an uproar over FP+ possibly taking away their ability to do headliners as much as they can cram in. that somehow the FP+ will not be as "good" all because it isn't fair that we are all used to utilizing & manipulating the FP systemt our advantage. yet our own usage (probably over usage by Disney's calculations) of the current system is actually unfair to those who aren't as blessed as us to know how to maximize it. So now Disney comes up with something that may level the playing field but still afford us some benefit and that is bad? trust me, i will miss the ability to max my usage of FP just like i miss the ability to stack FP's pre enforcement of return times, but in the end, they are still creating a system where we all are playing int he same sandbox.

if Disney were to go back to NO fastpass system would people complain? after all, wouldn't that be the fairest? for me, some fastpass is better than no fastpass, and if everyone in the park is moviing around thru attractions quicker as a whole, then i can see where that will benefit us all as a whole.

You missed the point entirely. Of course FP is free, but our access was unlimited. Disney set it up that way, so anyone who chooses to can take advantage of it or not. Their choice. Now Disney has set it up apparently to limit that same access, while charging more money. Is it a level playing field for park hoppers? Those who once could go to as many parks as THEY chose and access fast passes. Now they won't be able to.
What I've heard so far I don't like, you do. To each his own.

 

[squirrel4569]

So, DH and I were in Disney last week and we had a conversation with a CM about Fastpass Plus. Just so you guys know, this CM works in Disney restaurants, but is in a manager position. Apparently, Disney handed out Fastpass+ bands to its managers' families and encouraged them to use them in the parks so that they would know what it was all about. This CM even showed DH and I the custom bands that were developed for his family members. I'm telling you all this to give some legitimacy to the information I'm passing on, but I have to say it is still hearsay.

So, we mentioned that the rumors we'd heard about magic bands and only having 3 FP picks per day made us unsure whether they were a good idea or not. He indicated that he thought they weren't limited to 3 per day, but rather, 3 at one time. Basically, you sign up for 3, but once one is gone, you can sign up for another FP to fill that slot. He seemed really impressed with the new system and thought it was a great idea. We didn't ask about transferability between parks or the other questions people have brought up here because it didn't come up (plus, the CM was busy and we didn't want to bother him further).

Anyways, that's just what we heard. Thought I'd feed the rumor mill.

This is interesting. Say, for example, most people book evening FP+ reservations and few are booked for the mornings. What does that do to the early queues? Do they go down, go up or stay the same? Will a lack of evening FP+ availability steer people to book earlier in the day? Will it increase the morning crowds?

Let's just say Joe Six Pack takes his family on vacation and the CMs tell him that he can book FP for his rides. He was planning on sleeping in but the only available slots for his favorite rides are in the morning. So he has a FP at 9, one at 10 and one at 11. Instead of him showing up at noon, he's now moved to the morning and decides since he got up early, rode a bunch of rides and met some characters that he's going back to his resort to take a nap. A few less people, (we'll say 4.5,) at the parks in the afternoon and now the standby lines in the afternoon are lower since the crowd was spread out more. Make sense?

 

[mom2rtk]

This is interesting. Say, for example, most people book evening FP+ reservations and few are booked for the mornings. What does that do to the early queues? Do they go down, go up or stay the same? Will a lack of evening FP+ availability steer people to book earlier in the day? Will it increase the morning crowds?

Let's just say Joe Six Pack takes his family on vacation and the CMs tell him that he can book FP for his rides. He was planning on sleeping in but the only available slots for his favorite rides are in the morning. So he has a FP at 9, one at 10 and one at 11. Instead of him showing up at noon, he's now moved to the morning and decides since he got up early, rode a bunch of rides and met some characters that he's going back to his resort to take a nap. A few less people, (we'll say 4.5,) at the parks in the afternoon and now the standby lines in the afternoon are lower since the crowd was spread out more. Make sense?

This is the part of the story where I get really fuzzy and give up trying to guess what will happen.

In the end, I think human nature will take over and people will bail on their early FP+ return times. Because they are, after all, on vacation.

 

[g-dad66]

Well...it was supposed to be a focus GROUP but only my husband and I showed up.

Wow.

I hope they had a WHOLE LOT of focus groups if they were getting this small a number of participants per group.

I think I read that 3000 participated in this last test, so 2 people out of 3000 isn't a great response rate, is it?

Anyway, thanks again for all your great reports.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Wow.

I hope they had a WHOLE LOT of focus groups if they were getting this small a number of participants per group.

I think I read that 3000 participated in this last test, so 2 people out of 3000 isn't a great response rate, is it?

Anyway, thanks again for all your great reports.

I'd suspect they held several focus groups across the period of the test -- not everyone could make it at the same time even if they all wanted to participate.

I, too, hope the turnout in these is good.

 

[squirrel4569]

This is the part of the story where I get really fuzzy and give up trying to guess what will happen.

In the end, I think human nature will take over and people will bail on their early FP+ return times. Because they are, after all, on vacation.

One thing that I'm kind of hoping for is that if we are limited to 3 FP+ that with the reduction in FP guests the standby line would improve. Right now we have what some consider to be unlimited FP and yet we have standby times of 2-3 hours each day on a handful of rides.

Being optimistic, if you were limited to 3 FP+ reservations but were still able to do a dozen or so attractions per day with waits of 30 minutes or less would that still work for you? I think most would be satisfied with that.

 

[g-dad66]

He indicated that he thought they weren't limited to 3 per day, but rather, 3 at one time. Basically, you sign up for 3, but once one is gone, you can sign up for another FP to fill that slot.

Thanks for the report!

I'm not sure I understand the above part. What does "once one is gone" mean?

Does that mean if TSM, for example, is one of the three I reserved, but then TSM "sells out", I would then get a 4th pick at that point?

Or does this mean once in the park and once it is past the time of my first FP+, then I get pick another one? (This would be exactly what happened to whatsarahsaid during the recent test, when they missed the time of their first FP+.)

Or something else?

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

MMM I can totally see your point there, although that is still assuming that there are same day passes and/or that headliners don't book completely in pre-booking and there is some magic automatic balance that takes place between attactions. I imagine that if the people less in the know showed up and couldn't get on Space Mountain, they would be none too happy, the same way people who are planning a trip, if they can't book Space Mountain, are going to be none too happy

Agreed -- that is assuming some form of same-day FP, and the idea that not all of the TOTAL FP "allotment" would be made available for reservation.

I think the other big piece is setting expectations. I think it would be a mistake to have their massive rollout marketing campaign sound like: RIDE ALL YOUR FAVORITES AS MANY TIMES AS YOU'D LIKE!! WITH NO WAIT! Or even anything close to this. Asking for trouble. I know there are a couple of statements that have been made in this general vacinity, but so few people are actually following this now. I think the BIG ROLLOUT CAMPAIGN is where all these expectations need to be properly set.

I'm not optimistic enough to expect a "magic automatic balance" , but I would expect Disney to be striving to get there, and they sound like they've designed a system that will allow them to learn from mistakes and adjust. Again - totally in their profit-motive / business interest to do so.

As I keep saying, none of this guarantees they'll "get it right"... and certainly not right away (I'd be surprised with such a massive undertaking and their IT track record)... and certainly not right enough for every guest. But the plan must be for it to be a net improvement / more attractive offering to more guests.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Robo]

Using the highways and streets to drive to lots of different stores to shop for the lowest prices and favorite items is manipulating the highway and road system to the advantage of those who aren't blessed with the know-how to choose the stores with good discounts or be able to drive to that many stores.

Besides, I'm sure it's considered "over-driving" and causes traffic jams.

If only we could decide 60 days in advance at which three stores we were going to shop. The stores could stock up in anticipation of those days.
The state and cities could allocate better traffic control and dispatch more patrol staff to those higher travelled areas.

Much better for shoppers.

I need some milk and bread.
See you in 60 days!

 

[doconeill]

Thanks for the report!

I'm not sure I understand the above part. What does "once one is gone" mean?

Does that mean if TSM, for example, is one of the three I reserved, but then TSM "sells out", I would then get a 4th pick at that point?

Or does this mean once in the park and once it is past the time of my first FP+, then I get pick another one? (This would be exactly what happened to whatsarahsaid during the recent test, when they missed the time of their first FP+.)

Or something else?

I think it means that once you've used one of your three, you can then get another.

That's a new twist.

 

[d1gitman]

You missed the point entirely. Of course FP is free, but our access was unlimited. Disney set it up that way, so anyone who chooses to can take advantage of it or not. Their choice. Now Disney has set it up apparently to limit that same access, while charging more money there's that money word again. Is it a level playing field for park hoppers? do you like paying for hoppers or are you outraged that they switched from hopper being part of a ticket to a paid option? same question for no expirationThose who once could go to as many parks as THEY chose and access fast passes. Now they won't be able to. based on what we know, but it seems lots of people are ready to jump off the cliff and the system hasn't been rolled out yet. when they roll it out and it has all the limitations and shortcomings that everyone is in a tizzy over, then yes, I will jump on the bandwagon but for goodness sake, lets just wait and see what actually is coming.
What I've heard so far I don't like, you do. To each his own.

I wonder if Disney is playing a cruel joke on DIS'rs knowing they can't handle lack of info and control and are letting out tidbits of limited info and testing just to torture the DIS crowd....

 

[d1gitman]

Using the highways and streets to drive to lots of different stores to shop for the lowest prices and favorite items is manipulating the highway and road system to the advantage of those who aren't blessed with the know-how to choose the stores with good discounts or be able to drive to that many stores.

Besides, I'm sure it's considered "over-driving" and causes traffic jams.

If only we could decide 60 days in advance at which three stores we were going to shop. The stores could stock up in anticipation of those days.
The state and cities could allocate better traffic control and dispatch more patrol staff to those higher travelled areas.

Much better for shoppers.

I need some milk and bread.
See you in 60 days!

better break out the maps

 

[wdwlver]

I wonder if Disney is playing a cruel joke on DIS'rs knowing they can't handle lack of info and control and are letting out tidbits of limited info and testing just to torture the DIS crowd....

It's working...lol

 

[fflmaster]

This is hilarious. No wonder things have been delayed so much. Either Disney has set up their IT dept. for disaster by not giving properly outlined parameters desired for the system OR they totally underestimated the backlash associated with limiting the number of FP's.

As for option 1 how could the system designers be expected to design a system that allows ANY possible use scenario? I can see the first planning meetings:

Designer: "OK this system sounds cool how many FP+'s should we prepare to be available?"

Disney Suit: "We don't know"

Designer: "Umm OK. Are we going to have to prepare for same day FP availability?"

Disney Suit: "We don't know"

Designer: "Hmmm. Exactly what do you want us to design the system to do?"

Disney Suit: "We don't know, other than make us more money of course."

Love this. I almost spit out my dinner when reading this.