Ok, Tell Me How She Feels So That I Can Understand

[floridaminnie]

I think a lot of us are having the issue that he isn't the one to make arrangement for care for the girls and he takes Saturday nights off to wrestle.

 

[phorsenuf]

Bachelor pad?? Have you ever seen the types of living arrangements these guys have when they are doing the type of work the son does? They get the cheapest apartment in the crappiest neighborhood they can find so they can save money FOR THEIR FAMILY! Insinuating that the son is living it up in a bachelor pad which conjures up partying, girls, hot tubs, and sex just isn't fair.

I am well aware of how it is. My husband has been there, done that before we were married (well, we were dating at the time). But if you don't think there isn't any partying/drinking/sex going on then you are well off base. Even the OP stated it wasn't an environment for the kids to be around. Why would you suppose that is?

Look, I've never once said he was a deadbeat or anything of the sorts. I'm looking at it in different ways, and one of those ways is I know how construction guys live. It's no different from cable linemen. And oh the stories I could tell...

OP, is there a middle spot your son could live where he could still commute to his job but also a better environment for the kids?

 

[sam_gordon]

Did I miss it somewhere (either in this thread or another)?

* Do we know whether the father is financially supporting his wife and kids (from what I know, he has a job making good money now, but do we know what he does with the money)?
* Do we know whether the mother is working or not?

Either way, M2B is correct. The OP wanted to know what her DiL is thinking. She got back the same answer time and time again.

To me, it doesn't matter if the father is making $1M a year. The issue is he's supposed to take care of the kids on weekends, and (because of work) there have been many times he couldn't. The mom says "in three weeks, I need you to take care of the kids". Yes, if she was smart, she'd make alternate arrangements, because she knows the father is unreliable. However, it should be HIS responsibility.

 

[hellow]

There is a difference between what works when you are married and what works when you are separated. The reason it's a custody issue is because the couple in question is separated. That means during mom's custody time she's in charge and during Dad's custody time he's in charge.

The MIL and husband want the DIL to be the one to make alternate arrangements when Dad can't make his agreed upon custody time. While that might work for a married couple to decide it's always mom's job, it doesn't work that way during custody situations.

Every relationship, whether you are married, or trying to work out custody issues takes give and take. If the separated parents can manage to be flexible, their kids will be better off. She is getting the benefit of him working the job he has. It probably isn't any more fun for him to be away from his family as it is for her to have primary responsibility for the kids.

I wonder what this thread would be like if he wasn't working at all because he wanted to spend as much time as he could with his family, and was living off of welfare?

 

[Mkrop]

She could get off her tuffet and get a job to help support the children she helped create, like millions of other single mothers do. She chose to leave a marriage without a game plan for success for her family. Her game plan was to go home to Mom & Dad. His game plan, when he found himself as a single parent, was to move somewhere where he had a job that had a higher wage to try to support his family.

This exact situation could play out even if they were still living as a family. My husband was military for most of our marriage. I have been a parent for 18 years and for the first 13 of that I could have described myself as a "single parent half the time" because he was literally away from home for nearly half of those 13 years. Sometimes plans had to be changed because he deployed or went on course on short notice. It happens. I and millions of other military spouses deal/dealt with it every day.

The reality is that while he should make arrangements for child care in his absence if the informal, verbal agreement is that he has the children on the weekends, it would behoove her to have a backup plan in case he has to work on this super important concert weekend. So should he. If his livelihood depends on him working on that particular Saturday there isn't much he can do about it. If she wants to continue to have disposable income to go out of town for a concert then she is just going to have to make sure she has other arrangements in place. Exactly the way she would have had to if they still lived together and he suddenly had to work overtime.

It wouldnt matter if she was the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, if the agreement is that Dad should have them from Fri to Sun, than the onus is on HIM to find alternate childcare if he has to work.

I dont fault the guy for taking a job out of town, if that is all that is available in the area. Jobs are not that easy to come by esp in certain fields. Heck DH is working out of town for awhile bc of a noncompete. It is tough on the family but it is what we need to do. And I think it is admirable he is working to support his children. But he needs to take on the responsibilty of getting someone to watch his kids if he cant be there during his time....whether it is Grandma (OP) or a hired babysitter.

I have NO issue with the OP choosing to go to show choir with her DD bc it is not her responsibility. If she can help on occasion, that is great but it is not her problem if she cant. Yes maybe she can send DD off with another family for one day, but that would be a favor and dad should be seeing what else can be arranged and not relying on his mother.

I do have an issue with the wrestling. It does seem to eat into his time with his kids, and I dont really get a good feeling about kids who need diapers hanging out backstage at a wrestling show while dad performs.

 

[hellow]

She has two young children.
They are the OP's son's children.
And, not only should she be completely responsible for them 6-7 days a week, with no father present, but she should now also get off her duff and help support them so that this guy can go live in a bachelor pad, and do whatever he wants, with no responsibility at all

Wow... Just freakin' WOW.
O M G....

I am so glad that the courts do not see it that way.

She IS supporting them.
She has made a responsible decision to allow her mother to help provide acceptable housing, food, child-care, so that she will not have to work 40-60 hours a week and have her children live in a tiny, sub-standard place somewhere.

Some of the comments here, just can't even begin to wrap my head around them.

This man isn't working and providing for his family... He is off shirking responsibility, playing care-free bachelor, while estranged wife and mommy handle everything.

Wow. That is quite a stretch for not knowing any of the parties involved. Sounds like you might have previous experiences of your own that are clouding your interpretation of the situation.

 

[phorsenuf]

Wow. That is quite a stretch for not knowing any of the parties involved. Sounds like you might have previous experiences of your own that are clouding your interpretation of the situation.

 

[hellow]

OP, is there a middle spot your son could live where he could still commute to his job but also a better environment for the kids?

That is a good idea! Constructive advice is what the OP needs, not son-bashing.

 

[Granny square]

The op asked a question and is the one who made a million excuses for her son. I don't know that she asked for advice.

What constructive advice have you given? Seems you only have a need to chastise posters with whom you disagree?

 

[badblackpug]

I don't disagree with you, BUT (and this is a BIG BUT) all of those things don't make him a deadbeat dad. They don't make him a horrible father. They don't make him a loser who will never change. He isn't living the life of Riley and totally forgetting about his kids and not supporting them. These are all things that have been insinuated continuously by some in this thread.

There is no doubt he needs to fix this. He won't do that if grandma is always there to rescue him. I think everyone on this thread agrees that grandma needs to let him handle it. But again, that doesn't mean the guy is a horrible person with children that will grow up to hate him because he was never, ever there their entire lives. Some are making huge leaps.

And, again, the DIL also needs to step up. It really does seem like some man haters are on this thread. The entire responsibility of financial support seems to lie on the son. The DIL isn't working, lives rent free, and has built in babysitters with her parents and the OP'er. Maybe if she took a weekend job, dad could quit the wrestling gig and have his children all weekend while mom works.

There is a difference between what works when you are married and what works when you are separated. The reason it's a custody issue is because the couple in question is separated. That means during mom's custody time she's in charge and during Dad's custody time he's in charge.

The MIL and husband want the DIL to be the one to make alternate arrangements when Dad can't make his agreed upon custody time. While that might work for a married couple to decide it's always mom's job, it doesn't work that way during custody situations.

I am hardly a man-hater, I have a husband and 2 sons. I also don't think anyone ever said he was a deadbeat. What I am seeing said, repeatedly, is that he needs to accept responsibility for his children. Part of that responsibility is making sure he picks them up when he is supposed to, and making sure that he has appropriate housing and adequate child care if he needs to work during the times that his children are with him.

The PP is right, the dynamics change greatly when you are a separated or divorced couple. This is no longer 1 household working together, this is 2 separate households that function separately. The households need to mesh, but they are separate entities, and they need to function as such.

The long and the short of it is that it has been explained repeatedly to the OP why the daughter in law may feel the way she does, and why she is reacting they way she is. I'm pretty sure the OP wanted to hear, "What a selfish witch!" The OP has also been told, repeatedly that she is way too involved in the personal affairs of 2 grown people to the point of where she is enabling the immature behavior of both. I'm sure she didn't want to hear that, either.

 

[hellow]

The op asked a question and is the one who made a million excuses for her son. I don't know that she asked for advice.

What constructive advice have you given? Seems you only have a need to chastise posters with whom you disagree?

I feel bad for the OP because she is getting flamed by some really judgemental people. I have not son-bashed at all. And when someone gave some "out of the box" thinking that wasn't judgemental, I wanted to encourage it.

 

[mhsjax]

I didn't mean for your dd to skip show choir. I asked if you can miss it. I haven't had a child do show choir. It sounds like a group activity so there should be other parents who can take dd for a competition. My experience with travel sports is that it's routine for parents over the course of 2-3 month season to miss games and tournaments, and to send their child with another family.

Now if you return and say that you have to be at every minute of every competition, we'll picture you as one of those Dance Moms on the Lifetime show.

Well your experience would be quite different that what I have experienced. Sorry but I do go to every competition that my kids has. Sorry if doing my job as a parent puts me into the Dance Mom category. I will take it over a mom that doesn't show up.

 

[Granny square]

She isn't being flamed. Her son is. I think people how pretty much said the girls are lucky to have the op. at least that is what I have said and noticed, maybe because it is what I believe. She has important things in her own kids lives to attend to.

The son needs to take responsibility for his kids. If it is his time to have them he needs to and he needs to be present for them. It is in his and their best interest. A hobby job either makes enough to hire a babysitter or isn't really a job. The mom should be able to make a plan weeks in advance. She gave plenty of notice. He can take a Saturday off so that she can do something. She should be able to have a life to. My mom didn't because she only had the grand parents to watch us and would only ask them to cover during work. Never for fun. I wish she had had some fun.

 

[Planogirl]

It sounds like the "hobby" job isn't really a problem. The OP already mentioned that he takes the kids.

The problem seems to be the regular job and the long hours he works. He would likely have to find another job to be free all weekend. If he quit or took a lower paying job his estranged wife might have to work.

This is way more complicated than saying he needs to be there all weekend.

 

[badblackpug]

It sounds like the "hobby" job isn't really a problem. The OP already mentioned that he takes the kids.

The problem seems to be the regular job and the long hours he works. He would likely have to find another job to be free all weekend. If he quit or took a lower paying job his estranged wife might have to work.

This is way more complicated than saying he needs to be there all weekend.

I don't think anyone is saying that he needs to be there all weekend, or that he should quit his job. I"m pretty sure most people realize the economy sucks, and you have to sacrifice sometimes. I think most people are saying that he needs to have reliable child care lined up in case he has to work and not expect the ex to just drop everything if his schedule changes at the last minute.

Really, it's not anything anybody else doesn't have to do, married, or not. My husband is a doctor. If he is on call and I am at work he has to get someone to watch the kids. He can't say, "I've got to go in, come get the kids." It's really just part of being a parent.

What the OP is saying is that she has her own responsibilities and can't be the back-up child care, and that is fine, no one faults her for that. She didn't seem to understand why the ex was angry because she couldn't watch the kids. I think that has been explained to her.

 

[hellow]

She isn't being flamed. Her son is. I think people how pretty much said the girls are lucky to have the op. at least that is what I have said and noticed, maybe because it is what I believe. She has important things in her own kids lives to attend to.

While you and I probably are more in agreement than not, there are some people who are projecting the problem onto the OP, and I just feel bad for her. We already have almost 20 pages, some with some really good advice, and some just hurtful statements:

I get the very strong impression that you are solely and completely in his camp and he can do no wrong and you want to blame your DIL for the break up of the marriage and for being unreasonable in this and every disagreement.

It sounds like your son/you expect she is the one who needs to make all the concessions and your son has done nothing wrong and doesn't need to give anything up. Sorry. There's a difference between a child and a man.

And you're mad because she has the audacity to expect the father of her children to make them a priority in his life.

You are obviously extremely biased toward your son.

It was only after lots of criticism that she said he made money doing it. Hmmm. She would defend him in any scenario and still doesn't see how this could be damaging to his hanging by a thread marriage, his relationship with his daughters or his rights as a parent.

Some people have some real strong opinions without really knowing the whole story.

 

[Granny square]

I think it is hard not to project when subjects like this cm's up in life. we all know someone on one side or the other and usually both.

I hope the girls get scads of fine with all involved. That is all for the good. You can't ever have too many people to love you.

 

[leebee]

I don't disagree with you, BUT (and this is a BIG BUT) all of those things don't make him a deadbeat dad. They don't make him a horrible father. They don't make him a loser who will never change. He isn't living the life of Riley and totally forgetting about his kids and not supporting them. These are all things that have been insinuated continuously by some in this thread.

There is no doubt he needs to fix this. He won't do that if grandma is always there to rescue him. I think everyone on this thread agrees that grandma needs to let him handle it. But again, that doesn't mean the guy is a horrible person with children that will grow up to hate him because he was never, ever there their entire lives. Some are making huge leaps.

And, again, the DIL also needs to step up. It really does seem like some man haters are on this thread. The entire responsibility of financial support seems to lie on the son. The DIL isn't working, lives rent free, and has built in babysitters with her parents and the OP'er. Maybe if she took a weekend job, dad could quit the wrestling gig and have his children all weekend while mom works.

There's so much we don't know about the entire situation. For example, it seems that the DIL moved out, to her parents, and the DS got his "away" job after that. Maybe he WAS being a good father and not taking an "away" job while he lived with the dil and their 2 kids, but once the dil took off he felt he could take that "away" job as his kids weren't living with him anyhow. The thing is, we don't know.

Another thing we don't know is the ds's living arrangements. I have a friend who worked a big, "away" construction job and the apartments weren't bachelor pads by a LONG shot; more like dormitory living, at best, and sometimes housing arrangements were considered part of the pay. Perhaps it IS a regular apartment, but having an apartment with strange men as roommates is not a good place for two young children, regardless of gender, even if the men are nothing more than loving fathers and family men themselves. Once again, WE DON"T KNOW.

Furthermore, regarding custody, required living arrangements, whopping child support payments, etc.; it varies by state. I have two siblings with children, both of whom are divorced. Custody and support mandated by the state are formulaic; numbers are pumped into an equation, including the father's income, $$$ he pays for medical insurance, etc., and out comes a number he pays for child support. Standard visitation arrangements in this state is one overnight mid-week and Friday evening until Sunday afternoon every OTHER weekend. Yes, it differs if the parents request such. It's silly to say "thus and such is what's going to happen" when there's so much info that we don't know.

It sounds to me like DIL has a free place to live, one kid in preschool, and a built-in babysitter in her mom, so she needs to get a job to help support these kids. (Of course, there may be extenuating circumstances that I don't know about.) Then maybe dad could feel OK about quitting the wrestling job and have Saturday evenings free. HOWEVER, this still won't guarantee that he'll have Saturdays available. Only sunny weather will do that! I am surprised that the DIL reacted so strongly when OP said that she isn't available as back-up for Saturday on the concert weekend so dil might need to line up a backup; it's not like the DS working on Saturday is unheard of, the DIL should know that that's a possibility. I mean, if she felt that was the DS's responsibility, she should simply have said so!

Sigh... only on the DIS is a man bashed for taking a job that pays enough for him to support his family, even if he's sacrificing family time to do it. What would the uproar have been if OP had instead said that her ds lives at home in a lousy paying job and gets food stamps and welfare to help support his children, but this is how it has to be so that he can be near his kids all the time?

 

[hellow]

I hope the girls get scads of time with all involved. That is all for the good. You can't ever have too many people to love you.

SO TRUE!

 

[LisaR]

I also don't think anyone ever said he was a deadbeat.

Below you will find just ONE example of someone who apparently thinks he is a deadbeat. I don't have the time or energy to go back and find the others, but there have been more than a few that are insinuating just that.

This man isn't working and providing for his family... He is off shirking responsibility, playing care-free bachelor, while estranged wife and mommy handle everything.