Universal seeks rights to Lord of the Rings Attractions

[mbrou24]

But Disney already brings in the families, adding a Carsland won't bring in new families, it will just be a bonus for the existing ones. In fact I can see a sort of Carsland for free by walking around the Art of Animation resort. And I doubt any kid over 10 is into Carsland, it's a little kids movie. By then they've moved on to Marvel. I doubt my almost 5 year old girls will still be into princesses at 10.

My fiancé is 23 and still into princesses haha. That's really what Disney is about isn't it? Making children happy and experience something great and for adults to find the inner kid in themselves?

 

[disneyworld1977]

But Disney already brings in the families, adding a Carsland won't bring in new families, it will just be a bonus for the existing ones. In fact I can see a sort of Carsland for free by walking around the Art of Animation resort. And I doubt any kid over 10 is into Carsland, it's a little kids movie. By then they've moved on to Marvel. I doubt my almost 5 year old girls will still be into princesses at 10.

Well I don't know who would agree with me, but my DW and I have no kids. We are in our 30s. We are kids! We are going to DCA later this year to see Cars Land. I am thrilled to see it. If it wasn't for that there, we probably wouldn't be going this year. I don't think Cars Land should be at HS, maybe some Cars attraction though. Either way I will enjoy it when I go to HS.

 

[cheshireqt]

It's rumored that Universal is in negotiations with the Tolkein family to secure the rights to the Lord of Rings with the intention of developing theme park attractions based on the books.

If this is true, it will be interesting to see if there's any action from Disney in terms of putting more steel and concrete in WDW.

Gasp! That would be awesome!

 

[WDW1979]

LOTR is way bigger than Avatar. Yes, Avatar pulled ina lot of money when it was new, but as a franchise I am friends with geeks galore and it's like meh. It's not a draw. LOTR coupled with HP though.... It will be a geek's Mecca. Myself and my husband included.

I agree: "Avatar Land" will likely not be in the same league as "The World of LOTR". Aside from the special effects, Avatar has too much emphasis on "humans bad, everything else good", which is meh when it comes to story, but in LOTR the emphasis is more "humans fallen but capable of great good", which in the LOTR context provided part of a great story.

Disney doesn't need a glorified "Kali River Rapids" (fun rapids but preachy "humans burn and destroy" sets along the way) in the form of special-effects Avatar Land just to show us all how bad humans can be. And if they de-emphasize that part, where is the story?

I pick Middle Earth over Pandora. At the heart of it, the reasons and sentiments behind that personal preference are the same reasons and sentiments that have made me love Disney World since I was a child.

Avatar Land? Oh, well.

 

[twebber55]

LOTR is way bigger than Avatar. Yes, Avatar pulled ina lot of money when it was new, but as a franchise I am friends with geeks galore and it's like meh. It's not a draw. LOTR coupled with HP though.... It will be a geek's Mecca. Myself and my husband included.

i like them both but LOTR will most certainly not come to Disney if anybody it will be Uni

 

[SpacePlace]

I am looking forward to Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings all in one place if they can get that off the ground but I need new technology to keep me going back. I am very big on rides not only telling new stories but telling them in new ways (by new technologies). The KUKA arm for HP is amazing! If Universal can incorporate more technologies like that, or similar, for effects for the spells of HP and LOTR, then it's going to be pretty hard to keep me away!

 

[Z28KatCar]

But Disney already brings in the families, adding a Carsland won't bring in new families, it will just be a bonus for the existing ones. In fact I can see a sort of Carsland for free by walking around the Art of Animation resort. And I doubt any kid over 10 is into Carsland, it's a little kids movie. By then they've moved on to Marvel. I doubt my almost 5 year old girls will still be into princesses at 10.

I still love the princesses and so does my daughter. I never grew out of them, lol. I would love to see Disney do something more with Marvel or Pixar, not just Cars. If they had either of those at HS I would probably spend more than 1/2 a day there during our 2 week trip!

 

[MrRomance]

Let's assume that there is weight to this rumour and that Universal secure the LOTR rights. The rights in my view will be limited based on the way the family have protected his works thus far. Even if they were to be given free reign (which I think is highly unlikely) the project will take quite some time to get off the ground. If it were a single attraction, I could see it taking 18 months or so, if the plan is for a "World" the best case senario would be 3 years. There are a number of issues and it won't be up and running quickly.

With WWoHP and LOTR, Universal will be geek mecca as other posters have said, but is that really going to be a worry for Disney? I don't think so and here's why...

Disney have always been 5 steps ahead and definitely have things in their arsenal that Universal can't replicate or come close to. The recent acquisition of Lucas Film combined with Marvel, Pixar and of course the existing plans for Avatar are all tricks up the Disney sleeve. The LOTR franchise, while significant, doesn't come close to the Star Wars franchise and if you want to talk about geeks...Star Wars is the jewel in the crown. Disney already revamped the Star Tours attraction before the buy out, now they can extend and expand in that area of the park. DHS has grown a little tired and there is nothing in that general area that they couldn't do without to make way for Star Wars "world" in my opinion.

Another thing that has struck me with Disney in the last few years is that they have really taken some leaps forward in terms of "themed" areas. Cars Land and the Art of Animation Resort are incredibly well themed. A Pixar park has been rumoured for a while and if that were to go ahead, that would be a huge draw.

I don't think the LOTR going to Universal will bother Disney at all. They have too many irons in the fire and too many options in their bag of tricks. I think we'll see an announcement of a brand new Disney park in Florida in the next few years and while LOTR and WWoHP will continue to be a draw for some, I don't see it taking many dollars out of the Disney pockets.

I haven't been to Universal for 4 years and I've been to Florida 3 times during that 4 years. I don't plan to go this year either. HP and LOTR are not my thing and if they were to lure me back for a visit, they'll have to do a lot better than that!

 

[Merbean09]

Let's assume that there is weight to this rumour and that Universal secure the LOTR rights. The rights in my view will be limited based on the way the family have protected his works thus far. Even if they were to be given free reign (which I think is highly unlikely) the project will take quite some time to get off the ground. If it were a single attraction, I could see it taking 18 months or so, if the plan is for a "World" the best case senario would be 3 years. There are a number of issues and it won't be up and running quickly.

With WWoHP and LOTR, Universal will be geek mecca as other posters have said, but is that really going to be a worry for Disney? I don't think so and here's why...

Disney have always been 5 steps ahead and definitely have things in their arsenal that Universal can't replicate or come close to. The recent acquisition of Lucas Film combined with Marvel, Pixar and of course the existing plans for Avatar are all tricks up the Disney sleeve. The LOTR franchise, while significant, doesn't come close to the Star Wars franchise and if you want to talk about geeks...Star Wars is the jewel in the crown. Disney already revamped the Star Tours attraction before the buy out, now they can extend and expand in that area of the park. DHS has grown a little tired and there is nothing in that general area that they couldn't do without to make way for Star Wars "world" in my opinion.

Another thing that has struck me with Disney in the last few years is that they have really taken some leaps forward in terms of "themed" areas. Cars Land and the Art of Animation Resort are incredibly well themed. A Pixar park has been rumoured for a while and if that were to go ahead, that would be a huge draw.

I don't think the LOTR going to Universal will bother Disney at all. They have too many irons in the fire and too many options in their bag of tricks. I think we'll see an announcement of a brand new Disney park in Florida in the next few years and while LOTR and WWoHP will continue to be a draw for some, I don't see it taking many dollars out of the Disney pockets.

I haven't been to Universal for 4 years and I've been to Florida 3 times during that 4 years. I don't plan to go this year either. HP and LOTR are not my thing and if they were to lure me back for a visit, they'll have to do a lot better than that!

I find something very wrong with this sentence.
LOTR has only been a classic novel for twice the amount of time that Star Wars has been a movie.

And if Disney has some tricks up their sleeves, I suggest they pull them out now. They are going downhill and fast.

 

[eeyorepixie]

Lord of the Rings=Iconic
Avatarland=NOT!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I find something very wrong with this sentence.
LOTR has only been a classic novel for twice the amount of time that Star Wars has been a movie.

And if Disney has some tricks up their sleeves, I suggest they pull them out now. They are going downhill and fast.

Its about money...

Star Wars is unparalleled for the amount of money it made - so quickly - based on one crazy guy's idea, a collection of ragtag techno geeks, and a 10 million dollar budget given very begrudgingly...

Of Course the Tolkien stories have been around alot longer and you can certainly are better developed stories...
But that's not what we're looking at.

In cash and effect on pop culture - nothing even comes close to Star Wars.

The lord of the rings movies don't exist without special effects - the special effects don't exist without ILM - ILM created by star wars...

There's too strong of a case to be made that star wars is a root cause of all the cool things we see now on tv and the screen.

and for the record:
Disney "going downhill and fast" can't be farther from the truth. Their attendance and revenues continue to climb - no matter what universal, sea world, or the the army corp of engineers builds in town...they are the dominate. The coke to the pepsi, the UPS to the fedex, the walmart to the target (all of those comparisons are about an 80/20 market split - though nobody tends to look at them as such)

That is the facts of the case...we debate them all the time on this board - but in the end they still are the facts.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

And for the record:

Build On, Universal.

I love the fact that Comcast is pouring some of the money they've been ripping off of me for years into building expensive, cool, "in your face, rat", high capacity things over on Kirkman...while disney is "pooring" their money into DVC.

I really do.
No...i don't think they are anywhere in the ballpark to actually steal attendance from WDW - as always, Disney will gain off it (we've been over this a google times)...but the fact that they are really throwing some care into securing the parks longterm and creating a legitimate presence is great for me...as a Disney guy.

No pennies will be spent out of Burbank that they don't want....but somewhere in the Dwarf Building and in Imagineering...there are meetings, ideas, and budgets being floated with a little more pressure on them...and i'm sure in the end we'll see new things at LBV sooner than we might have otherwise.

lord of the Rings?
By all means - throw it in. Can't do anything but help the consumer.

 

[MyHappiestPlace]

Carsland won't entice the world of geekdom. Betwen LOTR and Harry Potter, man, that would severely cut down the amount of time we spend at Disney as the girls get older. My first ever trip to Orlando was to Universal to see the Wizarding World, not Disneyworld. I doubt any teen or adult is going to say "Yay, Carsland!" Stars Wars however, is a different story.....

ITA - my girls are soooo geeked about LOTR they want me to take them to NZ! I don't have the dough for that but I would definitely spend some serious $$ to do it at Universal!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Just a reminder:

the so called "geek" element is not what business plans around. In fact, quite the opposite. They know its a relatively small number and they will put their money toward specific brands in any form.
The ultimate in lemmings...but not exactly the masses that really have the dough

 

[SpacePlace]

Just a reminder:

the so called "geek" element is not what business plans around. In fact, quite the opposite. They know its a relatively small number and they will put their money toward specific brands in any form.
The ultimate in lemmings...but not exactly the masses that really have the dough

You are correct about the business plans, except for Comic-Con. Those people that organize Comic-Con start their meetings off like "ok, I want every barnhouse, doghouse, inhouse searched until you have found the last geek and then I want to know if they want the former cast of Chuck this year!" Full disclosure: I go every year... and no, no more Chuck

 

[ChrisFL]

Just a reminder:

the so called "geek" element is not what business plans around. In fact, quite the opposite. They know its a relatively small number and they will put their money toward specific brands in any form.
The ultimate in lemmings...but not exactly the masses that really have the dough

Geekdom brought TRON: Legacy to be produced after the preview was unexpectedly played at ComicCon

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Geekdom brought TRON: Legacy to be produced after the preview was unexpectedly played at ComicCon

And it made 8 bucks...

I think perhaps that may count as a "lesson learned"

And for the record...Disney seems MORE inclined to service the geek...probably because they have money to burn and crave merchandising potential like an addict...

BUT...the target audience is the 16 year olds that would spend $12 bucks on paint drying (with special effects...or $16.50 on Paint Drying 3D) and then forget what they watched 30 seconds after the credits roll, come back next week and do the same thing over again.

Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

It's not people who dress up like Klingons or Leia Slave Girls.

That's not "new" news

 

[pilferk]

And it made 8 bucks...

I think perhaps that may count as a "lesson learned"

And for the record...Disney seems MORE inclined to service the geek...probably because they have money to burn and crave merchandising potential like an addict...

BUT...the target audience is the 16 year olds that would spend $12 bucks on paint drying (with special effects...or $16.50 on Paint Drying 3D) and then forget what they watched 30 seconds after the credits roll, come back next week and do the same thing over again.

Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

It's not people who dress up like Klingons or Leia Slave Girls.

That's not "new" news

Usually we agree, a lot...and I even agree with the point you're making about catering to "the geek" above the mass market/date market, but....just not in terms of Trons number.

Just to clarify:

Tron:Legacy's domestic gross was about 175 million. It's foreign BO was was about 228 million.

I'm not sure I'd call 400 million world-wide "8 bucks"....even on a production budget of a 170 million. It's a modest return (probably 100 million-ish in profit) on the box office...more on the home release...but certainly not too shabby. Given the way the production budget went (over runs on R&D and tech)...I actually think that was close to a best case scenario for Disney (worst case being something like John Carter).

http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=tron2.htm

It didn't have a great opening weekend, I'll grant you that. But it ended up doing fairly well

Looks like a sequel has been greenlit...but we'll see about actual production.

Tron:Uprising on DisneyXD opened to pretty good ratings...and now does horribly (to the point that new eps have been moved to Monday at midnight).

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Usually we agree, a lot...and I even agree with the point you're making about catering to "the geek" above the mass market/date market, but....just not in terms of Trons number.

Just to clarify:

Tron:Legacy's domestic gross was about 175 million. It's foreign BO was was about 228 million.

I'm not sure I'd call 400 million world-wide "8 bucks"....even on a production budget of a 170 million. It's a modest return (probably 100 million-ish in profit) on the box office...more on the home release...but certainly not too shabby. Given the way the production budget went (over runs on R&D and tech)...I actually think that was a best case scenario for Disney (worst case being something like John Carter).

http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=tron2.htm

It didn't have a great opening weekend, I'll grant you that. But it ended up doing fairly well

Looks like a sequel has been greenlit...but we'll see about actual production.

Tron:Uprising on DisneyXD opened to pretty good ratings...and now does horribly (to the point that new eps have been moved to Monday at midnight).

Obviously that was a little tongue in cheek...

I don't think you've sold me on Tron being evidence of the "power of the geek"

Remember that Tron was "their" material...and boy don't they love to roll out their old toys?

And a 175/ 400 gross isn't that great - let's be realistic about this.
It was big in 1989...now it's pretty average if not even below. What was their budget - -about 300? Plus promotional and marketing?

It was probably marginal/ break even.
And I don't recall lines at walmart waiting for the blu ray.

Come on, you're playing devils advocate here and you know it.

The Comic Con crowd is a loyal if small segment and even they admit they don't move the bar much...like hockey fans (anyone catch those Pens over the weekend? Woo Hoo!!)

Movies are about legs and the teen and 18-49 demographic...not exactly a Hollywood trade secret

 

[pilferk]

Obviously that was a little tongue in cheek...

I don't think you've sold me on Tron being evidence of the "power of the geek"

Remember that Tron was "their" material...and boy don't they love to roll out their old toys?

And a 175/ 400 gross isn't that great - let's be realistic about this.
It was big in 1989...now it's pretty average if not even below. What was their budget - -about 300? Plus promotional and marketing?

It was probably marginal/ break even.
And I don't recall lines at walmart waiting for the blu ray.

Come on, you're playing devils advocate here and you know it.

The Comic Con crowd is a loyal if small segment and even they admit they don't move the bar much...like hockey fans (anyone catch those Pens over the weekend? Woo Hoo!!)

Movies are about legs and the teen and 18-49 demographic...not exactly a Hollywood trade secret

To be clear:

I'm not trying to make any point in the discussion. I agree (as my original post says) largely with YOUR point about not catering to the geek. And I don't think Tron was evidence of "the power of the geek", either.

My only point is that Tron did a bit better than 8 bucks (even considering hyperbole). Using the 1.5 rule of thumb (total costs, including marketing, etc, usually come in around 1.5 times of production costs), total costs probably came in around 267 million. That's 133 million in profit. A modest (but not spectacular) success and only on the BO. While Tron might not have set the world on fire in Blu-Ray and DVD (the sales figures I can find peg it around 1.5 million units, and about 30 million in sales for DVD in the US...can't find Blu-Ray, which is usually separate), it still pads the profit margin a bit. Say they've made about 145 million in profit, in sum total, including theatrical release, home release, streaming, etc worldwide. That's not too shabby, and a bit more than 8 bucks.

That is and was the entirety of my contribution. I don't mean to imply, express, or impart anything else.