Disney, Adoption and The Avengers...

[Jennasis]

Emom, clearly ALL adoptive parents and children don't share your views and the OP's views on the ONE line, as expressed by multiple posters right here on the thread. So does that make them all ignorant of the feelings of adoptees too?

 

[Doug7856]

...A few years ago, the movie "Orphan" had a tagline on the poster about how it was harder to love an adopted child as much as your own. That was offensive, and I agreed with the complaints about that poster, and glad the studio changed it.

But this? No, it's not the same thing at all. Especially since it's amongst two whole movies were Loki was repeatedly told how he had been loved as nothing less than a son and a brother. And even after that line, Thor was still trying to stop Loki and save him - as his brother.

Jen, I agree, this in no way comes near to the "Orphan" movie a few years back.

We enjoyed the Avengers and will probably see it again, but this issue continues to bother me as inappropriate. No matter how you slice it, "He's adopted" -- the concept that Loki is not my "real" brother -- was the root of the humor in Thor's joke. That's what got the laughter because he was backing away from his original, forceful contention that Loki was his brother.

 

[EMom]

No one in this thread said or implied that all adoptive parents "raise their children to be overly sensitive instead of teaching them that adoption is a positive thing, with all the good, loving thoughts that go with that". Some parents do raise children to be overly sensitive and to take offense at everything, but that is hardly exclusive to those who adopt.

I assume you noticed that some of the people who responded that it didn't bother them either have adopted or were adopted themselves. You obviously feel strongly about this but you are reading way more into this than people are saying.

I have no idea if this line would bother my DD or not. A lot of adoption "jokes" seem to go past her, but then I never know if she's just keeping quiet. I am not asking everyone to be outraged. Far from it. I am asking people to consider WHY these remarks are still okay and why we still laugh. We used to laugh at certain racial slurs, but not so much anymore. Why? Are they less true? Less funny? Did we open our minds to the effect words could have?

I have always been a champion of children, long before I adopted. Especially children who were vulnerable in some way. I do not like to see children made to feel "less than" for no good reason. IMHO, a laugh is not worth that. It doesn't have to hurt 100% of the kids to be something we might want to rethink. Who is the bigger person here? The adult making the joke or the adopted kid? I know who it OUGHT to be.

Really, if adults have gotten to this point in life and still think adoption jokes are knee slappers, then I can talk until I am blue in the face and it won't make a difference. They will never see or care about the kids out there who feel like crap at because they are, essentially, a punchline. How many on this thread said, "Gee, you know, I never stopped to look at it like that. But now that you mention it, I see how jokes like that could really hurt a kid. I don't want to be part of that."? I know I won't be long counting the numbers. Which is, sadly, totally expected.

If we were talking about adults being offended, I would probably be less passionate than I am in this case. Children being hurt just doesn't strike me as humorous. Never has.

 

[Lintasare]

I think this thread needs some jazz hands.

 

[snarlingcoyote]

I'm thinking that kids (adopted and otherwise) won't be offended by the line unless they are taught that they should be offended by the line.

I'm adopted. I thought it was a dumb, stupid, mildly offensive line but wasn't offended until I found out that the backstory is offensive and, not only that, but people are just fine and dandy with it and happy to defend it.

Whatever.

 

[Jennasis]

I have no idea if this line would bother my DD or not. A lot of adoption "jokes" seem to go past her, but then I never know if she's just keeping quiet. I am not asking everyone to be outraged. Far from it. I am asking people to consider WHY these remarks are still okay and why we still laugh. We used to laugh at certain racial slurs, but not so much anymore. Why? Are they less true? Less funny? Did we open our minds to the effect words could have?

I have always been a champion of children, long before I adopted. Especially children who were vulnerable in some way. I do not like to see children made to feel "less than" for no good reason. IMHO, a laugh is not worth that. It doesn't have to hurt 100% of the kids to be something we might want to rethink. Who is the bigger person here? The adult making the joke or the adopted kid? I know who it OUGHT to be.

Really, if adults have gotten to this point in life and still think adoption jokes are knee slappers, then I can talk until I am blue in the face and it won't make a difference. They will never see or care about the kids out there who feel like crap at because they are, essentially, a punchline. How many on this thread said, "Gee, you know, I never stopped to look at it like that. But now that you mention it, I see how jokes like that could really hurt a kid. I don't want to be part of that."? I know I won't be long counting the numbers. Which is, sadly, totally expected.

If we were talking about adults being offended, I would probably be less passionate than I am in this case. Children being hurt just doesn't strike me as humorous. Never has.

So far only ADULTS have expressed offense. Your kid didn't even see the movie. The OP was offended for his kid, but made no mention if his kid was upset by it.

Also, the line was delivered by an adult about another adult. No kids mentioned.

 

[Jennasis]

I think this thread needs some jazz hands.

Soon...

 

[Lintasare]

I am wondering how the backstory is offensive.

 

[EMom]

Emom, clearly ALL adoptive parents and children don't share your views and the OP's views on the ONE line, as expressed by multiple posters right here on the thread. So does that make them all ignorant of the feelings of adoptees too?

No, not everyone does or should share my views. But as evidenced by some posters, (and since this morning, having looked elsewhere, I have realized this is being chatted about on many sites) it is clearly offensive to many adopted children. Many. Adoptive parents as well, although I am less concerned with them than the kids.

Disagreeing does not make one ignorant. Refusing to see that this is a real issue that has caused and will cause hurt......Well, that doesn't even make one ignorant. I suppose it makes them something else entirely.

And actually, at least one poster here DID tell their story and in it their child did get upset in the theatre. I imagine as time goes by, more will experience this. They won't post here though. Why do that only to meet with virtually zero empathy?

 

[Jennasis]

I am wondering how the backstory is offensive.

Sweet baby Jesus let's not start that. Here, Here!!! Jazz hands!

 

[Scurvy]

I have always been a champion of children, long before I adopted. Especially children who were vulnerable in some way. I do not like to see children made to feel "less than" for no good reason. IMHO, a laugh is not worth that. It doesn't have to hurt 100% of the kids to be something we might want to rethink. Who is the bigger person here? The adult making the joke or the adopted kid? I know who it OUGHT to be.

I might be more inclined to agree with you if this was a movie intended for kids. It was PG-13, and I think that makes a big difference. The intended audience for this movie should be able to understand the context of the line and not take it personally. Unless they are homicidal aliens who were adopted by a god and are trying to destroy a planet, and then they are probably right to take to personally.

There are people who are offended by almost everything. Short weak kids could be upset because Loki was abandoned by his family for being too small, but so far I haven't seen any parents of little kids upset about that. I don't like seeing kids hurt, either, which is why I think it's important to teach kids to pay attention to the context of comments like this so they don't take them seriously when they are intended to be jokes. Instead of trying to tell people what they should joke about, I think it's more important to make sure children understand that sometimes a joke is nothing more than a joke and shouldn't be taken personally.


ETA- Oops. Sorry I didn't respect the jazz hands. I posted before seeing them. Though to be honest I'm curious about how the backstory is offensive, too!

 

[CentralFloridian99]

Sweet baby Jesus let's not start that. Here, Here!!! Jazz hands!

Here's some more Jazz Hands!

Let's get back on topic, fast. IN A FLASH!

 

[EMom]

I might be more inclined to agree with you if this was a movie intended for kids. It was PG-13, and I think that makes a big difference. The intended audience for this movie should be able to understand the context of the line and not take it personally. Unless they are homicidal aliens who were adopted by a god and are trying to destroy a planet, and then they are probably right to take to personally.

There are people who are offended by almost everything. Short weak kids could be upset because Loki was abandoned by his family for being too small, but so far I haven't seen any parents of little kids upset about that. I don't like seeing kids hurt, either, which is why I think it's important to teach kids to pay attention to the context of comments like this so they don't take them seriously when they are intended to be jokes. Instead of trying to tell people what they should joke about, I think it's more important to make sure children understand that sometimes a joke is nothing more than a joke and shouldn't be taken personally.


ETA- Oops. Sorry I didn't respect the jazz hands. I posted before seeing them. Though to be honest I'm curious about how the backstory is offensive, too!

When I say "kids," I mean "not adults." There will be a lot of 13-17 y.o.s seeing this movie and yes, the line can hit home for many of them. Personally, if it's PG13, I would not take a child under 13. But that's me. I can guarantee you there will be scads of much younger kids (expecially boys) going to see this movie. The PG13 rating is not because of the adoption joke. The factors that caused that rating are not keeping parents from taking younger kids to it, be they adopted or not. That's an entirely different debate, I suppose.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

An offensive comic book hero/villian backstory...how odd.

 

[WowLookAtThat]

 

[SaraJayne]

And I expressed mine. The "thought" was that if children were offended, then it was because they were taught to be overly sensitive by their parents. As the parent of a child who MIGHT be offended by the "He's adopted" line (and I have no idea, as she doesn't want to see the film) that means I have just been insulted, thank you very much. It insults my parenting and that of countless other adoptive parents. And THAT is rude. Simple as that. It implies that adoptive parents raise their children to be overly sensitive instead of teaching them that adoption is a positive thing, with all the good, loving thoughts that go with that. Which is what we do, by the way.

But we can send that message to our kids 24/7 and it will NOT shut out the backward, ignorant messages of society entirely. (the bad seed, blood will out, second best, etc.) And when a kid is sitting in a movie theatre with a room full of people cracking up at "He's adopted" line, then the message they get is not the warm, fuzzy one their parents have been sending to them all their lives. It's the nasty stereotypical negative ones they hear. LITERALLY hear as the laughter rings in their ears.

If I took a kid with Down Syndrome to see a movie and a joke was made at the expense of kids with DS, I would not be shocked to discover that line hurt the child, no matter how much of a positive image their parents had raised them with. If I took a Black child to a movie and the movie said to him (as children internalize these messages) that Black kids are born bad and the whole room laughed, then no matter how much pride he had been taught to have in his race, I'd be less than surprised if he was offended. If I took a homosexual 13 y.o. to a movie that joked about the inherent broken, flawed nature of gays and the laughter of the audience hit them hard, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that their parents had raised them to be crybabies.

You can get one message from your family and quite another from society. That much is clear from the posts on this board. All I am asking is for ADULTS to put themselves in the position of an adopted child and realize that such comments can hurt terribly. It's simple empathy but it must be beyond the capacity of some. Yet it is how we evolve as a society.....or not.

Overdramatic much? Children take cues from their parents. If the parents act all offended, then kids think "oh, Mom's upset, I better be to".

It's why when little kids fall down and are deciding how they should react, they look to their parents for clues. If mom is upset, than the baby starts to cry. If the mom laughs or brushes it off, the baby toddles off to something else, none the worse for wear.

 

[EMom]

Overdramatic much? Children take cues from their parents. If the parents act all offended, then kids think "oh, Mom's upset, I better be to".

It's why when little kids fall down and are deciding how they should react, they look to their parents for clues. If mom is upset, than the baby starts to cry. If the mom laughs or brushes it off, the baby toddles off to something else, none the worse for wear.

And if parents joke and laugh about people being adopted, bad seed and all that......Well, I guess we see what their kids learn. That's why the "jokes" continue to this day. Too few people ask if what they are doing is a good thing to do, if it is right. But then, people have always laughed at those more vulnerable in some way. In truth, it says more about them than those they are laughing at.

For what it's worth, when my DD fell down she got right back up and kept on going so as not to miss play time. But on the rare occasions she was actually hurt and needed attention, I had enough sense to not ignore it.

 

[Lintasare]

And if parents joke and laugh about people being adopted, bad seed and all that......Well, I guess we see what their kids learn. That's why the "jokes" continue to this day. Too few people ask if what they are doing is a good thing to do, if it is right. But then, people have always laughed at those more vulnerable in some way. In truth, it says more about them than those they are laughing at.

But that is the thing. Loki IS a bad seed. That is his story. He was raised the same as Thor, given the same love from Odin and Frigga. He was treated equally but his Jotun nature won out. And even after everything he did Thor still loved him like a brother.

 

[diznygirl]

But that is the thing. Loki IS a bad seed. That is his story. He was raised the same as Thor, given the same love from Odin and Frigga. He was treated equally but his Jotun nature won out. And even after everything he did Thor still loved him like a brother.

I would also like to point out that this is a very very very old story - Norse Mythology wasn't thought up last year just for this movie.


I understand that sometimes things need to be fought against to exact change in the world. This isn't one of those times. It is so much more important to fight these types of injustices in the real world against real people. Too much energy is being spent about a comic book movie supposedly sending a message when the real message should be, "sometimes people say things without thinking, but that doesn't mean anything and those words shouldn't hurt you. You are more than that."

 

[Lintasare]

I would also like to point out that this is a very very very old story - Norse Mythology wasn't thought up last year just for this movie.


I understand that sometimes things need to be fought against to exact change in the world. This isn't one of those times. It is so much more important to fight these types of injustices in the real world against real people. Too much energy is being spent about a comic book movie supposedly sending a message when the real message should be, "sometimes people say things without thinking, but that doesn't mean anything and those words shouldn't hurt you. You are more than that."

Very well put.