The THYROID Thread

[lyeag]

Nov 9
Free T4 1.20
Free T3 3.28
TSH .03


Dec 6

Free T4 .47 (.7-1.9)
Free T3 1.33 (1.45-3.48)

TSH 23.02 (.49-4.67)


January 10th labs:
T3 1.62
T4 .67

TSH 15.36

Jan 25-07
Free T3 2.17 (1.45-3.48)
Free T4 .67 (.7-1.9)

TSH 8.19 .49-4.67

I added your recent labs to your previous two.

Since your levels are rebounding I dont see why you cant ask your Doctor to wait another two weeks and test again before making a decision. Based on your results I totally agree with you.

I added in my labs from the 10th, and now you can really see the pattern of them coming down - especially the tsh. I am going to get the script after 4, and hopefully I can catch the nurse then.

 

[teacups]

Hi Liz!

I hate being hyperthyroid. I know many/most people complain of HYPOthyroidsim, but I find being hyper to be much more intolerable. I've been severely hypo (TSH well over 100) and mildly hyper and it's the hyper side that gives me the most discomfort. I hate the racing heart and palpitations.

Try gaining 50 pounds in one-two months, loosing all energy to the point of your kids practically existing without you, falling into an ugly deep depression that really hangs in there thru thick and thin, as if THIN is even a word you'd ever mumble again! your skin flaky in ugly places, forgetting everything and knowing your not insane but fearing you are starting to become very stupid, rememebering the person you used to be and actually missing yourself! OH and the best part is the fact that your labs come back "within normal range". I'm not doggin on HYPER people, I was one of them once until the doctor told me to swallow poison and I did it... I would go back to hyper/graves in A FLASH! Hypo robs you of the personal resourses you need to help yourself. It's degrading and humiliating and ugly. And the doctors have never ever, ever been any help to me with this. When I was hyper I could freak myself out with the racing heart badly... but I would rather have that today, believe me. Well wait... I'd rather have NEITHER! THEY BOTH SUCK!!!

 

[Fan2CSkr]

Try gaining 50 pounds in one-two months, loosing all energy to the point of your kids practically existing without you, falling into an ugly deep depression that really hangs in there thru thick and thin, as if THIN is even a word you'd ever mumble again! your skin flaky in ugly places, forgetting everything and knowing your not insane but fearing you are starting to become very stupid, remembering the person you used to be and actually missing yourself! OH and the best part is the fact that your labs come back "within normal range". I'm not doggin on HYPER people, I was one of them once until the doctor told me to swallow poison and I did it... I would go back to hyper/graves in A FLASH! Hypo robs you of the personal resourses you need to help yourself. It's degrading and humiliating and ugly. And the doctors have never ever, ever been any help to me with this. When I was hyper I could freak myself out with the racing heart badly... but I would rather have that today, believe me. Well wait... I'd rather have NEITHER! THEY BOTH SUCK!!!

Do you have Graves? When were your last labs? What are the results? Do you take any thyroid hormone replacement? What, and what is the dose? I'm sorry, I remember reading and commenting on one of your posts but don't recall the details. When did you have your thyroid ablated?

I've been hyper to the point of thyroid storm. That's a hyper most will never know, thankfully. Me personally, I would take hypo over that hell any day but I agree, I would rather have neither! Have any great hospitals nearby? Sounds like its time to take matters into your own hands and get yourself well! Oh and that hypo "brain fog" was just unbelievably horrendous!

 

[rie'smom]

Is everyone here on Synthroid? I take Armour 3grains. Synthroid didn't work for me at all. It make my blood levels read ok but I felt like-well you know. Just letting anyone w/Synthroid problems know there's an alternative. Many doctors don't like it because they feel the doses aren't constant but they have to go through stringent testing too. In fact, this was the drug used to treat Hypothyroidism for about 100 years until Synthroid was formulated. It's been a miracle in my life and in my husbands.

 

[Mackey Mouse]

I have heard of the Armour medication, wonder why more endocrinologists do not use it. Wait, I bet I know the answer the big drug companies that make the others lobby more for the doctors to use them. My daughter's doctor took her off synthroid when there was talk that not every drug company was making it the same so everyone was getting a different dosage, although it was suppose to be let's say 5 mgs....She takes Levoxil, but I have to say people who live without thyroid deal with the constant of keeping those levels stable and if they are not, it is so unpleasant for them..

Hugs to you all, I understand, believe me I do understand.

 

[Christine]

I am just sort of confused. The last time I spoke to the nurse, she said it was thryoiditis and the dr was just watching to see if it resolves itself. With the numbers, specifically the TSH, making yet another huge jump, wouldn't you wait another 2 weeks to see if they move more? Like I mentioned, the TSH went down another 7 points.


I am feeling cold and tired most days, but I am functioning alright. Maybe I've been feeling like crap for so long, that I can't tell the difference anymore.

Yeah, I would agree that one would think he would wait another 2 weeks. But, as the other poster said, you've been hypo for a bit too long now. Hopefully he is just giving you a very small amount of thyroid hormone.

After one of my thyroid cancer treatments, my TSH was at about 145. I went back on my medication and after 6 weeks, I felt fabulous. I was shocked that my TSH was at 8.0. I felt great at that number.

 

[Christine]

I have heard of the Armour medication, wonder why more endocrinologists do not use it. Wait, I bet I know the answer the big drug companies that make the others lobby more for the doctors to use them.
Hugs to you all, I understand, believe me I do understand.

I participate on a thyroid cancer survivors list and this issue comes up often. One of the moderator/doctors on the list is EXTREMELY vocal about using Armour (he is against it) and feels that any "self-respecting" endocrinologist would not use it. I wish I could find one of his "rants" about it, but I can't. It seems to me that some of his concerns are valid, but I just can't remember them. As it is, I've worked with 3 different endos and NONE of them would touch the stuff.

 

[rie'smom]

I forot too that a prescription of Armour is about 15.00 w/out insurance. Armour is dessicated porcine(pork) thyroid. It's complete T3/T4 which of course means instead of 2 meds that you can take only 1. If Synthroid or the other meds work,great but if they don't,try something else. It angers me when docs refuse to consider other meds. It's like a male OB who totally doesn't get menopausal symptoms,except to throw estrogen at you-take this and shut-up. They count too much on the lab results and pay no attention to symptoms.
This is a website that I've found. You may or may not find it good reading: /www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

 

[Christine]

Okay, here is the info from one this country's "top" endocrinologists. Take it or leave it, but many endos feel this way:

Levothyroxine (T4) is the major product
of the thyroid gland and is essentially a
prohormone with minimal (if, debatedly, any)
activity of its own. It has a long and stable
half-life in the blood (one week) and is
transported into cells where it is converted into
T3, which directly interacts with receptors which
bind DNA and regulate genes. All of this has
been well-studied and constitutes a vast medical
and molecular biology literature. For patients
without thyroid glands, the ingestion of a pure
levothyroxine product provides ALL of the
necessary thyroid hormone products consequent to
normal metabolic and enzymatic bodily processes.

There is absolutely no conceivable role
for taking Armour thyroid extract or mixtures of
T3 and T4. Most of my colleagues and I would be
happy if the FDA removed these items from
production. Thyroid extract is a mixture of T4,
T3, thyroglobulin, and many other breakdown
products with erratic pharmacokinetics and nearly
impossible to accurately titrate for suppression
of TSH. There is no magical or supernatural or
any advantage to this animal product. Armour
thyroid provides a mixture of hormones that are
produced in pigs, not in humans. The only
reasonable medication is pure levothyroxine
(choose your brand). Cytomel is useful for the
first four weeks of the six-week levothyroxine
withdrawal period in preparation of I-131 scans
and/or therapy. It also has very limited utility
for supplemental treatment of myxedema coma
unresponsive to levothyroxine. (A medical study
from a couple of years ago suggesting T3
supplementation of levothyroxine therapy for
hypothyroidism is not generally accepted by
thyroidologists, for many good reasons, and
requires a great deal of confirmatory research
before any of its suggestions be used for
patients.)

There is nothing gained by choosing
medications based on "natural" extracts or
processes. Such items, frequently found in
"Health Food" stores, are often dangerous,
impure, untested, and of unproven value. Their
designation as a "natural" product merely
protects their manufacturers from having to
justify their purity, safety, and efficacy to the
FDA (which is empowered to protect us from
"pharmaceuticals" only), permitting great
financial profits at the expense of the public.
Many new drugs, such as Taxol (from the Yew
tree), and old drugs, such as penicillin (from
mold), come from sources in nature. In
comparison to "Health Food" shenanigans, these
natural products are stringently purified and
tested prior to making them available as
medications. It is possible that a few of the
"natural" products may have a fraction of a
percent of a useful agent, mixed in with far
larger quantities of toxic and useless "natural"
chemicals. Next time you go to these unregulated
"Health Food" stores, consider that the poison on
the darts used by various native peoples did not
come from a drug store.

Finally, in the wake of experience with
"mad cow" disease in England and the known
presence of prion diseases in cows, sheep,
humans, and other mammals, anyone who would
knowingly take an animal product over a
chemically pure synthesized compound should have
their head examined (for spongiform
encephalopathy).

 

[lyeag]

Yeah, I would agree that one would think he would wait another 2 weeks. But, as the other poster said, you've been hypo for a bit too long now. Hopefully he is just giving you a very small amount of thyroid hormone.

After one of my thyroid cancer treatments, my TSH was at about 145. I went back on my medication and after 6 weeks, I felt fabulous. I was shocked that my TSH was at 8.0. I felt great at that number.

I didn't get to speak to anyone, but I did pick up the synthroid. The bottle says .1, the pills have a 100 on them and are yellow. I have been taking them for 3 days now. I don't feel much different, maybe not quite so tired, but still cold. I have been really good about making sure I take it at the same time and without food.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Fan2CSkr]

I love this thread! Lots of food for thought. Each of us being able to make informed decisions based on whats right for us as an individual.

rie'smom Is everyone here on Synthroid? I take Armour 3grains. Synthroid didn't work for me at all. It make my blood levels read ok but I felt like-well you know. Just letting anyone w/Synthroid problems know there's an alternative. Many doctors don't like it because they feel the doses aren't constant but they have to go through stringent testing too. In fact, this was the drug used to treat Hypothyroidism for about 100 years until Synthroid was formulated. It's been a miracle in my life and in my husbands.

I am on Synthroid at the moment but its just been over a month now. For the past 3 years I have been on Anti-Thyroid medications. How long have you been taking Armour? Does your dose remain a constant or does it fluctuate? So your lab values were all in range when taking Synthroid but you just didn't feel well? Still felt hypo, or?

I am amazed that in general The AACE (American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists) and The ATA (American Thyroid Association) as well as MANY, even MOST Thyroid specialists in the US feel that Armour use shows no advantages over synthetic T4. They further feel that Armour is impure and contains hormones and proteins that never exist in the body outside of the thyroid gland. It seems to me that there is a major anti Armour stance in our country.

However I have to question why is it that I have read about and spoken with so many people (mostly women) that take Armour and have NEVER felt better? Please dont construe this as my advocating or pushing Armour since I have no basis personally just like I said what I have learned. Question authority? You betcha! Things in the medical field change constantly whats good for us one day isn't the next, drugs are approved by the FDA one day and pulled the next. Bottom line for me is why do all these people taking Armour feel better if the "industry" says they shouldn't? I am positive it wont work for everyone but neither does any other drug.

It's time for research and time for Doctors to realize patients aren't going to sit back and be dictated to on health care issues that optimally we should have a say in. So anyone interested in exploring all your options can have a look here to see what Doctors in the US will dose Armour.
http://www.armourthyroid.com/locate.html

It is my belief that Armour is absolutely a more difficult drug to dose and learn about, it makes a doctors job more entailed. Too bad! I'm not saying we should all jump ship and insist on being given Armour. For me though if the day comes that after considerable effort to regulate and feel "good" (normal!) while taking synthetic T4 fails, I want options! So long as there are options I will continue to explore each and every one.

 

[Christine]

I didn't get to speak to anyone, but I did pick up the synthroid. The bottle says .1, the pills have a 100 on them and are yellow. I have been taking them for 3 days now. I don't feel much different, maybe not quite so tired, but still cold. I have been really good about making sure I take it at the same time and without food.

Thanks for your input.

The half-life on Synthroid is 7 days. An endo put it to me this way: the Synthroid pill you take today (say, Monday) won't be felt until next Monday--roughly anyway. It takes awhile to build in the system.

Be careful with it though--.1 is a hefty dose for someone who has a functioning gland. You might find yourself on the hyper end in the next week or two.

 

[Fan2CSkr]

I didn't get to speak to anyone, but I did pick up the synthroid. The bottle says .1, the pills have a 100 on them and are yellow. I have been taking them for 3 days now. I don't feel much different, maybe not quite so tired, but still cold. I have been really good about making sure I take it at the same time and without food.

Thanks for your input.

I am surprised your Doctor prescribed this dose. It is high for a patient that still has their thyroid in conjunction with a TSH level that has been on a decline. Thyroid replacement hormone in synthetic T4 form is not fast acting. In other words what you take today will not have an effect on your symptoms or blood levels immediately. Start with a low dose and titrate up slowly. I would question this dose based on your history.

 

[teacups]

Hi... I'm the whiner from a few days ago.
I do take Armour, but have in the past taken synthroid. I have even taken them both at the same time. I tried Cytomel, but it causes unbearable migraines each and every time I try it (even though doc says that simply is not possible. Whatever.) So, my labs are all normal, always are. Sometimes I can get them to the extreme upper end of normal, and a tad above and sometimes I can get real low in the normal range. I swear, no matter what the level or the medication... I cant shake these symptoms. I've been working at this for something like 4 - 5 years... I cant even remember anymore. Seems so odd. I totally think that I had something weird happen when my brother died, besides the obvious. I think something chemically changed, and the doc's cant or dont look for whatever it may be. I have researched myself silly... always hitting a brick wall in the end.
I have to say... I dont like Armour any more than I like Synthroid. I just want one of them to work. I am not really crasy about taking pills made from a pig... but when the Synthroid made me cry too much, I switched. Ive done this repeated times over the 21 years Ive been post RAI. I never had thriod storm, thank God, but I was so hyper I could have literally commited a serious crime against another without a thought. NOT A NICE personality trait... and when you add some offspring to that picture, oh it's ugly.
One note: I REFUSE to trust an endo ever again.

 

[LovableGluttons]

.

 

[kathleena]

Try gaining 50 pounds in one-two months, loosing all energy to the point of your kids practically existing without you, falling into an ugly deep depression that really hangs in there thru thick and thin, as if THIN is even a word you'd ever mumble again! your skin flaky in ugly places, forgetting everything and knowing your not insane but fearing you are starting to become very stupid, rememebering the person you used to be and actually missing yourself! OH and the best part is the fact that your labs come back "within normal range". I'm not doggin on HYPER people, I was one of them once until the doctor told me to swallow poison and I did it... I would go back to hyper/graves in A FLASH! Hypo robs you of the personal resourses you need to help yourself. It's degrading and humiliating and ugly. And the doctors have never ever, ever been any help to me with this. When I was hyper I could freak myself out with the racing heart badly... but I would rather have that today, believe me. Well wait... I'd rather have NEITHER! THEY BOTH SUCK!!!

teacups, I understand your thoughts here, but i've been in both places myself, and I was much, much, much sicker with hyper than I ever was with hypo. I couldn't move 30 feet without being so exhausted I had to lie down. I was also having a resting heart rate of 100 while I was on propranol that rose to 150 within a minute of moving around. I laid on the sofa many nights with my heartrate spiking to 150 for no reason at all and my blood pressure going from 120/80 to 220/180 for no reason.

And I also had extremely dry, flaky skin, my eyebrows fell out as well as chunks of my hair, my legs swelled, my eyes swelled to the point where one now sticks out more than the other, I couldn't concentrate in meetings, forgot conversations 5 minutes after they happened, had horrible diarrhea, coudn't walk up stairs because my muscles were so weak.

Also, I couldn't sleep more than 4 hours a night, usually 30 minutes at a time, my heart pounding so loud the entire time that it kept we awake.

On top of all that, I was irritable and moody.

Talk about degrading, and losing everything you have for personal resources, I couldn't: go to the grocery store, drive myself to the lab for bloodwork, go to work, clean the house, cook, go to my mailbox 200 yards down the street - just to name a few things.

I'm not trying to start a debate here on which is worse, but we can't ever compare the two or think that everyone's hyper and hypo are the same. We all have different bodies and different reactions to them.

 

[kathleena]

I didn't get to speak to anyone, but I did pick up the synthroid. The bottle says .1, the pills have a 100 on them and are yellow. I have been taking them for 3 days now. I don't feel much different, maybe not quite so tired, but still cold. I have been really good about making sure I take it at the same time and without food.

Thanks for your input.

I hope you are doing well, glad you are being followed so closely.

A couple of comments:

It takes 6-8 weeks for T4 to work it's wonders in your body and start stabilizing the thyroid/pituitary relationship.

Symptoms lag behind the numbers. Whatever you are feeling today, is likely indicative of where your number was a couple of weeks ago. For example, when I was hyper, I took the meds for two weeks, but got steadily worse, and then turned the corner and started getting better.

 

[kathleena]

Part of the debate on Armour, according to my endo, is the T3. Just because you have a higher TSH and lower T4, doesn't mean your T3 is out of whack also. The mechanism that converts T4 to T3 may not be an issue, so giving you something that is both T4 and T3 makes it harder for them to control the T3. And, the levels of T4 and T3 are inconsistent in the Armour product.

And it is true that Synthroid had dosage issues about 5 years ago, but that is resolved.

And some people have adverse reactions to the fillers in Synthroid, Levoxyl and Levothyroxine. My doc moved me from Synthroid to Levoxyl years ago, the first time I was hypo, because I just didn't do well on Sunthroid. levoxyl was fine. I'm now on the levothyroxine and am doing great (after having been hyper inbetween).

And one more thing - my personal opinion that many of the issues many folks have with hypo and regulation with T4 after taking the RAI treatment for hyperT are because of the RAI itself. I chose the antithyroid drug route, and plan to live with a naturally failing thyroid for the rest of my life. I will likely move from hypo to hyper more times before it burns itself out.

 

[Virgo10]

I had my gallbladder removed in December and since then have been so tired. I'm a nearly 7 year post thyroidectomy and have been on the same dose of Levoxyl for about 5 years now, 112mcg.

I had an appointment with my regular doctor a couple of days ago and had the usual thyroid bloods done. Come to find out my fatigue isn't because of the gallbladder surgery, it's my thyroid having its first major hiccup in years. The doctor increased my dosage to 125 and I'm really hoping I start feeling better soon. Between the fatigue and just total lack of ambition, I hate this. Oh, and lets not forget about feeling cold all the time.

 

[lyeag]

I had my gallbladder removed in December and since then have been so tired. I'm a nearly 7 year post thyroidectomy and have been on the same dose of Levoxyl for about 5 years now, 112mcg.

I had an appointment with my regular doctor a couple of days ago and had the usual thyroid bloods done. Come to find out my fatigue isn't because of the gallbladder surgery, it's my thyroid having its first major hiccup in years. The doctor increased my dosage to 125 and I'm really hoping I start feeling better soon. Between the fatigue and just total lack of ambition, I hate this. Oh, and lets not forget about feeling cold all the time.

Oh I hear you on the feeling cold. It seems to bother me more at night than at any other time. I even get the shakes at times! I hope they get you on the right track again soon!