Your Opinion - Another Divorce Situation

[Pigeon]

There are more problems here than just the house.

I think it's great that the divorce was amicable, but the keeping the house in both names was idiotic. It seems to me that John still feels like his primary relationship is with Jane, not with Mary. The kitchen remodel just screams that he does not view Mary as an equal partner with him in his primary relationship.

It is true that Mary should have insisted that the house situation get settled before she married John, but that ship has sailed.

If they are interested in salvaging the relationship, I think the best thing is to start fresh by selling the house and John and Mary buying a new one. But I think they need counseling as well.

 

[RitaZ.]

Yes, he wants to look out for Jane and his kids. That is even one of the things my cousin always liked about him, that he was honourable and wouldn't shirk his responsibilities. But now she wonders if that extends to her or just Jane.

An example, in the spring John said that he felt the house needed a new kitchen - all updated and fancy shmancy. Most wives would be thrilled right? Well then she found out that Jane would have a hand in picking everything out because, after all, it is her house. So now the kitchen has changed but still has Jane all over it. Mary had said her and John should decorate how they see fit, and if Jane ever takes possession of the house she can change it, etc. John said no. He said Mary can do whatever she wants in terms of smaller things (curtains, etc.) but not "major" things that really effect the house and its value.

Now she is a nice person but this type of thing can be crazy-making. How is she supposed to ever feel at home there?

She is great. She is the one that tells John and Jane what the kids really want for their birthdays. She is the one that suggested the two older boys were old enough to start getting their own allowance, things like that. She's always trying to take of everybody.

She knows that if she leaves it will spun as "greedy Mary left because she wasn't entitled to the house" but it is so much more than that.

I think this whole family hit the jackpot when they got Mary.

Yes, I may be biased but then she's never given me any reason not to be.

Say what? If John is so protective of his former wife, then he should have stayed married to her. Is Jane the one that initiated the divorce? Not that it matters, but I'm curious.

Mary has to start thinking of herself and her son.

 

[Colleen27]

I can't imagine why a self-respecting woman would marry into a situation where her spouse is still so entangled with his ex, honestly. And the husband sounds like something of a shmuck to have gone along with an arrangement that left him technically single but not really independant or able to move on with his life.

At this point, I don't think there's room for a happy ending. The current wife is an outsider with no power or authority to demand any changes to the situation. The husband has made it clear that he feels more strongly about his obligations to his ex wife and their children than those he has to his current wife and their child, and even if he did want to change something at this juncture the ex would have to agree as well. The current wife needs to decide if she is willing to accept being second-rate for the sake of raising her child in an intact home or if she wants to walk.

 

[pilesoflaundry]

I do agree with you.

However is a life insurance policy the way to go? The DH could change the beneficiary status at any time probably without the consent of his wife, yes?

A trust fund would be a legally binding agreement with full protection, right? I know you can change a trust however if it needs to be change with dh/wife then she should be confident that the money is safe.

I have neither so I am not sure what would be the right protection for long term.

She needs to take out the policy herself as the owner on John as the insured and herself (Mary) as the beneficiary. Her husband can't do anything without her consent or signature.

I personally wouldn't even tell him if I was in that kind of a mess. I would just take it out, pay it every month and file it away. Things don't have to be exactly fair but they have to be protected so Mary and new baby aren't on the street if John dies first.

I don't blame John and Jane for not wanting to give the house to the new baby but John needs to do something about taking Jane's name off or some other way to change how the estate goes so that the boys still get it but Jane can't walk in and kick baby out if John dies.

 

[Colleen27]

And why should he? He and Jane had this figured out and amicably agreed to LONG before Mary entered the picture. Why should he go back to paying on a mortgage when he's already done paying and he only has to pay 1/2 the rent on his ex-wife's apartment?

Because he SHOULD care enough about his wife and child to ensure they have some stability as well. That's what jumps out at me in all of this - if something happens to John, his older two have their mom and their childhood home to help them through their grief. His current wife and youngest child, on the other hand, get the pleasure of scrambling to find a new residence in whatever timeframe the ex-wife sets. What sort of man cares so little for his wife and child that he'd be okay with that arrangement?

 

[Skywalker]

Is Jane the one that initiated the divorce? Not that it matters, but I'm curious.
/QUOTE]


Yes!

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Because he SHOULD care enough about his wife and child to ensure they have some stability as well. That's what jumps out at me in all of this - if something happens to John, his older two have their mom and their childhood home to help them through their grief. His current wife and youngest child, on the other hand, get the pleasure of scrambling to find a new residence in whatever timeframe the ex-wife sets. What sort of man cares so little for his wife and child that he'd be okay with that arrangement?

And to top that off what other "little things" is she dealing with? I would think that after you felt "wronged" in a relationship every little detail is going to BUG YOU! And then it builds up and then you blow up and then leave.

 

[Colleen27]

An example, in the spring John said that he felt the house needed a new kitchen - all updated and fancy shmancy. Most wives would be thrilled right? Well then she found out that Jane would have a hand in picking everything out because, after all, it is her house. So now the kitchen has changed but still has Jane all over it. Mary had said her and John should decorate how they see fit, and if Jane ever takes possession of the house she can change it, etc. John said no. He said Mary can do whatever she wants in terms of smaller things (curtains, etc.) but not "major" things that really effect the house and its value.

Frankly, it sounds to me like John is still hung up on Jane, but since he can't have her he brought in a "place holder" to relieve some of the stress and loneliness of being a single parent. He's not looking at Mary as a wife and partner but rather as a substitute for Jane, which is why she comes off the loser any time the question becomes which woman's opinion or wellbeing matters more.

 

[pilesoflaundry]

Is Jane the one that initiated the divorce? Not that it matters, but I'm curious.

Yes!

That explains a lot more.

Frankly, it sounds to me like John is still hung up on Jane, but since he can't have her he brought in a "place holder" to relieve some of the stress and loneliness of being a single parent. He's not looking at Mary as a wife and partner but rather as a substitute for Jane, which is why she comes off the loser any time the question becomes which woman's opinion or wellbeing matters more.

I agree.

 

[PrincessMomto2]

After reading about the property taxes, upkeep coming from Mary's salary as well and Jane not paying for any of this followed by the kitchen remodel and her husband's response I would have packed my bags and gone straight to a very good lawyer. I think Jane has a great deal and there is no way she will budge and yes she does get the extra joy of controlling the ex's new wife.

Jane and John's agreement at the time may have made sense to them. But now that he has remarried and has another child this arrangement should have been changed. For him not to want that is a sign of how he really feels about Mary and the new baby. I personally find that their (John and Jane's) whole arrangement is very strange.

I would tell your cousin to visit a very good lawyer and move on with the rest of her life. Her first priority should be her child. Get out now! There is no way in heck I would stand for any of this and play second fiddle to an "ex". John needs to grow up and be a MAN and a father to all his children.

Good luck to your cousin I hope she finds a happy ending. Too bad though you are right all the kids are going to feel the pain of her leaving.

So sad..

 

[helterskelter]

After what's been said and done, I feel ambivalent towards Mary's situation. On one hand, she is made to appear like a second fiddle to her husband's ex because of his stake on her house, which is really strange. It's okay if you're simply paying for the house because you're obligated to, but making it look like it's a priority is just foul and poorly played. On the other, I just thought Mary should have known the man she married better. Surprises do happen in a marriage like this one, but as mentioned in an earlier post, this is John's flaw that Mary has to burden, if she's willing to take it up.

I vouch for the suggestion of marriage counseling in order to get into the bottom of this. However, this would only happen if John is willing to let it. Other than that, I honestly cannot see their situation improve. Maybe if John's a great guy and his good qualities can cover his for his flaw, then things would probably go smoother. However, I would surprised if their marriage goes into the route of divorce.

 

[Disney Doll]

Wrong thread!

 

[dzorn]

Well how are things going with Mary?

Denise in MI

 

[Disney Doll]

OK, now this is the right response on the right thread...

The kitchen thing...sorry, but Mary's gotta go.

But, Mary's gotta hang in a for a while longer to get her financial act together.

Tell this little story to Mary...it may be helpful.

This happend about 20 or so years ago. A co-worker found out her husband was cheating. They had 5kids, including a special needs child, so she was concerned about health insurance and other financial stuff with regard to divorce. She decided that before divorcing she would need to get some financial stability. She began to buy savings bonds. Every time she went to the bank, she bought savings bonds. Her husband, based on his guilt, didin't question how she spent $$$, she'd just say "Good sale on meat so I needed extra money to freeze some" or "School clothes" or whatever. She stayed a few years doing this, and when she left, she had built up a little nest egg in savings bonds, which, BTW, she had put into her mother's name so that they couldn't be taken as part of the splitting if assets in a divorce...

She did finally leave with enough $$ to build a new house in Florida. Her ex never knew what hit him.

This is what Mary has to do. Not buy savings bonds, but change her financial contribution to this mess and somehow hide the $$$ so John doesn't get it when they divorce. Plus, she needs to try and suck out as much more $$ from John as possible for a while to fund her future life. God knows, if she's been working, with her pay contributing to ward the expenses and taxes of a house she'll never own and therefore never reap the benefit of, he owes her some.

If I were Mary, my entire salary would not be put in to any "common" household fund. I would feel the need to keep my decision on the down low, so I'd probably put some of the $$ in so he didn't notice, but there'd be a portion of it I'd be keeping. Hopefully Mary does the bills because that would make it easier. I'd be taking out a life insurance policy on my husband with our child only as beneficiary....and using some of the household $$ to be paying that premium somehow. I'd get a separate checking account too.

 

[Gigi22]

I would be interested in hearing how this is turning out. I'm not sure what viable options Mary has, other than requiring John to take out an insurance policy on himself with Mary and their child as the beneficiaries. That, and insisting on marriage counselling in order to clarify "the rules" of this rather tangled situation. I don't see John and Jane agreeing to any changes in the house situation--and even if John wished to change, Jane could effectively block any and all changes. I must say that my hat is off to Jane, and her divorce lawyer, for creating a really good post-divorce situation for Jane as well as Jane and John's children.