Woman in persistive vegetative state unexpectedly delivers baby

[robinb]

I'm happy to know they have apparently found the monster that abused her.

Notably it seems there is some evidence to suggest valid reasons she's in a care facility all these years, rather than euthanized as some with no knowledge of the actual circumstances suggested.

If possible, it makes the crime even more heinous b/c she was definitely aware that this was being done to her. And, had to deal with the pain of childbirth with no meds.

Hmmm ... I don't know. The parents said:

The woman's parents on Tuesday through their attorney disputed characterizations that their daughter is comatose, according to the Associated Press. They described her as being intellectually disabled because of seizures in early childhood. While she doesn't speak, she has some mobility in her limbs, head and neck. She also responds to sound and can make facial gestures.

That sounds A LOT like what poor Jahi McMath's mom said about her. I do assume that the woman who was raped is not officially brain dead though.

 

[cabanafrau]

Hmmm ... I don't know. The parents said:



That sounds A LOT like what poor Jahi McMath's mom said about her. I do assume that the woman who was raped is not officially brain dead though.

Well if it sounds A LOT like something via a secondhand comment from their attorney being reported in the media, then I guess that's more than enough evidence to assume that must be the case.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Hmmm ... I don't know. The parents said:

That sounds A LOT like what poor Jahi McMath's mom said about her. I do assume that the woman who was raped is not officially brain dead though.

I am a little confused, as well. I could've sworn originally I read that she had had a near-drowning. Maybe that's what caused her brain injury and subsequent seizure disorder? I really don't know.

 

[robinb]

Well if it sounds A LOT like something via a secondhand comment from their attorney being reported in the media, then I guess that's more than enough evidence to assume that must be the case.

I just see a parallel between Jahi's doctors saying she was brain dead and her mom saying "No! She can move and respond to sound!" and this woman's doctors saying she is comatose and her parents saying (through their lawyer) "No! She can move and respond to sound!"

Whether she can actually move purposely and respond to sound or if her parents just believe she can, it does go long way to explain why they have not let her go.

 

[cabanafrau]

I just see a parallel between Jahi's doctors saying she was brain dead and her mom saying "No! She can move and respond to sound!" and this woman's doctors saying she is comatose and her parents saying (through their lawyer) "No! She can move and respond to sound!"

Whether she can actually move purposely and respond to sound or if her parents just believe she can, it does go long way to explain why they have not let her go.

To be clear, I'm disgusted that anyone looking at merely the bits and pieces of this story available in the media would leap to the conclusion that this woman should not be alive and that her family is somehow in the wrong for allowing that to be the case. As far as I know no medical professionals in this case are suggesting that any measures being taken to keep this woman alive should be halted. The same cannot be said in the other case you've suggested is equivalent. Personally I don't believe that comparison is possible from a few news articles.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

To be clear, I'm disgusted that anyone looking at merely the bits and pieces of this story available in the media would leap to the conclusion that this woman should not be alive and that her family is somehow in the wrong for allowing that to be the case. As far as I know no medical professionals in this case are suggesting that any measures being taken to keep this woman alive should be halted. The same cannot be said in the other case you've suggested is equivalent. Personally I don't believe that comparison is possible from a few news articles.

Wow, I haven’t seen anything like that related to this case. Where did you see it?

 

[cabanafrau]

Wow, I haven’t seen anything like that related to this case. Where did you see it?

Page five of this thread.

 

[robinb]

To be clear, I'm disgusted that anyone looking at merely the bits and pieces of this story available in the media would leap to the conclusion that this woman should not be alive and that her family is somehow in the wrong for allowing that to be the case. As far as I know no medical professionals in this case are suggesting that any measures being taken to keep this woman alive should be halted. The same cannot be said in the other case you've suggested is equivalent. Personally I don't believe that comparison is possible from a few news articles.

You're right. We don't know what the doctors have said to the family about measures to keep this woman alive. Jahi's case was far more public because her mother made it public to fight letting her go. You were the one who grabbed onto the lawyer's comments to make your point that she shouldn't have been "euthanized". I personally believe it is sometimes cruel to keep people alive who are in a persistent vegetative state and if that disgusts you, so be it. HOWEVER, as you pointed out, we don't know enough for me to to form an opinion if I think keeping her alive all this time was what was best for her. Due to the privacy that this family has maintained, we will never know so I can only go with the fact that she's alive because her parents want her to be alive. It's their call and I'm 100% OK with that.

In any case, the point that I was making WASN'T that she should be DEAD (like Jahi) but that the parents public comments about her condition are different from what we have been told by the medical community.

 

[cabanafrau]

You're right. We don't know what the doctors have said to the family about measures to keep this woman alive. Jahi's case was far more public because her mother made it public to fight letting her go. You were the one who grabbed onto the lawyer's comments to make your point that she shouldn't have been "euthanized". I personally believe it is sometimes cruel to keep people alive who are in a persistent vegetative state and if that disgusts you, so be it. HOWEVER, as you pointed out, we don't know enough for me to to form an opinion if I think keeping her alive all this time was what was best for her. Due to the privacy that this family has maintained, we will never know so I can only go with the fact that she's alive because her parents want her to be alive. It's their call and I'm 100% OK with that.

In any case, the point that I was making WASN'T that she should be DEAD (like Jahi) but that the parents public comments about her condition are different from what we have been told by the medical community.

Your comments are not the ones I was referring to from page five.

As far as the comments about this woman's condition that have been in the press, my point is that I don't think there's enough information to go on for the public to be making any inferences. I'm familiar enough with how this stuff works to understand that medical information related to a family that is then passed on to an attorney who subsequently relates it to the press who then broadcasts it to the public frequently isn't anymore reliable to playing a game of telephone. Details get missed, garbled or just plain wrong.

 

[robinb]

Your comments are not the ones I was referring to from page five.

Really? I said ...

I read that too. So freaking sad for her family to have her in a vegetative state for 26 years and to know that she will never recover. I hope that her parents will be able to draw comfort that she will live on through her baby even though it was conceived under terrible circumstances.

You don't think it's sad for her family? To have a family member in a vegetative state and know they will never recover? Never be the girl she was? Never be the woman they hoped she would be? All the potential gone? Gone *snap* like that due to a near drowning?

That's not sad? Really? You don't feel for the family?

Are you sure you're not thinking of CubbieCakes?

 

[cabanafrau]

Really? I said ...



You don't think it's sad for her family? To have a family member in a vegetative state and know they will never recover? Never be the girl she was? Never be the woman they hoped she would be? All the potential gone? Gone *snap* like that due to a near drowning?

That's not sad? Really? You don't feel for the family?

Are you sure you're not thinking of CubbieCakes?

What do you think I meant when I said, "your comments are not the ones I was referring to on page five"?

Where you come up with the idea that I don't think it's sad for the family is beyond me. No doubt these people have been through hell, which has now been compounded.

Nor do I understand why you began by quoting me at the top of this page -- or what on earth your original comment at the top of this page even meant in response to what I posted. Dragging in the Jahi McMath case in the first place never made sense to me.

 

[hereyago]

A male nurse has been arrested.

 

[robinb]

What do you think I meant when I said, "your comments are not the ones I was referring to on page five"?

You are completely WRONG with you interpretation of my comments on page 5. You are putting a disgusting spin on them which is 100000000% incorrect. I said that I feel bad for the family that their daughter has been in a vegetative state for 23 years. It is SAD. I am SAD for the family. I am SAD for the girl. I can see in some warped revolting universe you could read that I meant that it was that it was sad that they kept her alive for 26 years but that is not what I said.

You publicly "called me out" on my post on page 5, claiming that I "would leap to the conclusion that this woman should not be alive and that her family is somehow in the wrong for allowing that to be the case". I SAID NO SUCH THING.

Where you come up with the idea that I don't think it's sad for the family is beyond me. No doubt these people have been through hell, which has now been compounded.

Because you called out my post on page 5 as wrong. If you think my post was wrong, then you must not agree with me. I was very confused about why you were calling me out when I was only saying that I was sad for the family just as you are sad for the family. So I asked you if you felt bad for them like I feel bad for them. I finally figured out what was going on and you did not understand what I am saying.

Nor do I understand why you began by quoting me at the top of this page -- or what on earth your original comment at the top of this page even meant in response to what I posted. Dragging in the Jahi McMath case in the first place never made sense to me.

Please read the previous explanations I gave you why I made the connection between this case and Jahi. I'm not sure why you're not understanding what I am writing. I think you have a narrative in your head about what I am saying and you're not willing to actually read the actual words in the way they are intended.

 

[anniemae]

I am just sick over this. To think what is happening to people who are vulnerable and the mercy of others.

 

[dish rag]

Though the story is tragic, I can't help but think that the real abuse the daughter is suffering from is 26 years of being kept alive as a living corpse by her family.

WOW!

 

[lifesavacation]

I am just sick over this. To think what is happening to people who are vulnerable and the mercy of others.

I would guess this young lady wasn’t his only victim It makes me sick to think there are other young children/people in that facility he had access to.

 

[cabanafrau]

You are completely WRONG with you interpretation of my comments on page 5. You are putting a disgusting spin on them which is 100000000% incorrect. I said that I feel bad for the family that their daughter has been in a vegetative state for 23 years. It is SAD. I am SAD for the family. I am SAD for the girl. I can see in some warped revolting universe you could read that I meant that it was that it was sad that they kept her alive for 26 years but that is not what I said.

You publicly "called me out" on my post on page 5, claiming that I "would leap to the conclusion that this woman should not be alive and that her family is somehow in the wrong for allowing that to be the case". I SAID NO SUCH THING.



Because you called out my post on page 5 as wrong. If you think my post was wrong, then you must not agree with me. I was very confused about why you were calling me out when I was only saying that I was sad for the family just as you are sad for the family. So I asked you if you felt bad for them like I feel bad for them. I finally figured out what was going on and you did not understand what I am saying.

Please read the previous explanations I gave you why I made the connection between this case and Jahi. I'm not sure why you're not understanding what I am writing. I think you have a narrative in your head about what I am saying and you're not willing to actually read the actual words in the way they are intended.

I did not call out your comments on page five. I have specifically and directly said that several times. Apparently you made that assumption. Go back and read again. I never said anything about your comments until you began quoting and responding to me at the top of page six -- which I still do not understand.

 

[NotUrsula]

You're right. We don't know what the doctors have said to the family about measures to keep this woman alive. Jahi's case was far more public because her mother made it public to fight letting her go. You were the one who grabbed onto the lawyer's comments to make your point that she shouldn't have been "euthanized". I personally believe it is sometimes cruel to keep people alive who are in a persistent vegetative state and if that disgusts you, so be it. HOWEVER, as you pointed out, we don't know enough for me to to form an opinion if I think keeping her alive all this time was what was best for her. Due to the privacy that this family has maintained, we will never know so I can only go with the fact that she's alive because her parents want her to be alive. It's their call and I'm 100% OK with that.

In any case, the point that I was making WASN'T that she should be DEAD (like Jahi) but that the parents public comments about her condition are different from what we have been told by the medical community.

FWIW, many years ago I knew a family that had a child survive a near-drowning with severe brain damage. In that case, he was able to breathe on his own with no problem, but that was about the extent of what he could do for himself. Essentially, he had the self-reliance of an infant a few weeks old; all of the involuntary systems worked, but he couldn't deliberately do anything other than cry or whimper. As long as he was regularly fed he was able to remain healthy with no extraordinary measures, but he never re-developed language or voluntary motor skills of any kind. His parents did keep him at home until he was an adolescent, at which point his increasing weight and their declining strength combined to make nursing home care necessary.

As you say, we have no idea what this woman's exact situation is, but it is definitely possible for someone with severe brain damage to survive for decades in this state without any extraordinary technologies having to be employed to keep them alive. *If* that is the case, as long as she doesn't develop a fatal disease, the only way to end her life would be to deny hydration/nutrition.

{PS: Not having read most of the earlier posts on this part of the topic, I don't mean to impute that you, or anyone in particular, is saying that she should be allowed to die.)

 

[lifesavacation]

As you say, we have no idea what this woman's exact situation is, but it is definitely possible for someone with severe brain damage to survive for decades in this state without any extraordinary technologies having to be employed to keep them alive. *If* that is the case, as long as she doesn't develop a fatal disease, the only way to end her life would be to deny hydration/nutrition.

{PS: Not having read most of the earlier posts on this part of the topic, I don't mean to impute that you, or anyone in particular, is saying that she should be allowed to die.)

I'm having a hard time reconciling everything I've read about this young woman's physical state. I thought I read that she was on a ventilator, required tube feedings, and was unable to move her limbs. In any event, this is a horrific crime. To rape an incapacitated person who has some awareness but can't fight back....no words.

 

[robinb]

I did not call out your comments on page five. I have specifically and directly said that several times. Apparently you made that assumption. Go back and read again.

I owe you an apology. For some reason I simply skipped over the word “not” in your posts for some reason. I kept on reading that it WAS my post you were referring to. Pretty ironic, eh?