Woman in persistive vegetative state unexpectedly delivers baby

Discussion in 'Community Board' started by Pea-n-Me, Jan 9, 2019 at 3:18 PM.

  1. Pea-n-Me

    Pea-n-Me DIS Veteran

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    So many other things about this that are disturbing, too.

    All of the articles I've read have said she was found moaning and that's when a nurse discovered the baby. That likely meant she felt the pain of contractions. So what else did she feel, or was she aware of?

    The baby and mother would not have received any pre-natal care, and it was fortunate the baby survived the birth process without complications, too.

    Interesting article here out of AZ:

    https://www.azfamily.com/news/woman...cle_9342c7c4-0fb2-11e9-8138-4fcd53869faf.html
     
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  2. Soldier's*Sweeties

    Soldier's*Sweeties DIS Veteran

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    I’ve heard some people on total parenteral nutrition get bloated... I wonder if that’s a reason it wasn’t noticed.
     
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  4. cmwade77

    cmwade77 DIS Veteran

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    The problem is that legally they probably can't do this, unless there is something in their employment contract saying that their employer can do so. After all, there isn't reasonable cause to suspect any specific person working in the care center and that is what would be required for a warrant and they would want a warrant before getting the DNA, because without one they couldn't prosecute or sue as the DNA couldn't be used as evidence.

    Also, given how lax the security is at most care centers like this, it could very well be someone who doesn't work there that came in and did something or even another patient, so simply testing employees isn't necessarily going to do the trick here.
     
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  5. MrsPete

    MrsPete DIS Veteran

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    I don't think so. This woman was the victim of a crime. With payroll records, the company can say who worked during the time period she became pregnant, and a simple test can tell with 100% certainty who committed that crime. The victim and her family deserve to know who did this, and the rapist needs to be punished. The DNA test isn't terribly invasive, and the DNA results of the people who are proved innocent can be destroyed.

    However, they need to investigate ALL male workers -- cleaning staff, kitchen staff, etc. And her visitors. The father could be a family member or other visitor. Does the facility have patients who could have accessed her room? If so, they should be tested too.

    Consider this: If I'm driving a work vehicle and I have a wreck, the company has every right to subject me to a drug test; that is, they have a right to know something medical about me. How much more serious is this situation?

    Completely different thought: This woman has been in a coma for a decade? This seems wrong.
    Yes, they can look at the mother and the child and determine the father's ethnicity; so test the men who could be the father.
    Was she perhaps overweight? And the baby only weighed 2 lbs, so he was likely a preemie.
    False analogy. A woman at a bar would be able to speak and say who she spoke with that night. If she were unable to speak, the bartender and patrons could be questioned. Camera footage could be utilized.
    If I were male and had been anywhere near this woman, I'd volunteer my DNA immediately so no one would even remotely think it could've been me.
     
  6. LSUmiss

    LSUmiss DIS Veteran

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    That’s not the same thing as checking all the male employees who had access to her. If a passed out girl was raped in a bar bathroom, I think it would ok to require DNA for any male who had come into the bathroom while she was passed out in there.
     
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  7. bcla

    bcla DIS Veteran

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    Sure. There was a warrant signed by a judge. A judge would require probable cause to order it, even if it's a blanket requirement for all male employees.
     
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  8. kaytieeldr

    kaytieeldr Post hoc, ergo propter hoc

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  9. LovesTimone

    LovesTimone Christmas Day 2017

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    DH and I were talking about this last night... This made us both sick... I worked in Long term care for years, and in this environment everybody is into everyone's business .. someone knows something that works there or saw something - 1)they just don't realize that they have a clue - or 2) are not willing to come forward or/are afraid - or 3) are in on what has happened to this poor woman. They need to question everyone, not just the nurse or nursing assistants, but house keeping, laundry, dietary & maintenance as well as anyone that has access to the facility... everyone should be held accountable, everyone has access to the rooms. My question is " what about camera in the hallways, everywhere I worked we had cameras in the hallways for safety reason, wandering residents, family member visiting late at night, call lights, and general safety...

    With the blood test it will help rule out the innocent men, and this way they can focus on looking for the person or persons responsible, and not wasting time on or resources on the people giving good care... and they can look for the low life scum bag rapist that did this...

    As well it might not be anyone at the facility, it could be some-else family member or friend that is visiting...

    This woman has rights, she is in a vulnerable state, and should be protected...so everyone should be tested and be more than willing to be tested, to find whoever did this...
     
  10. anniemae

    anniemae Either she is eating a delicious

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    A few thoughts:

    I am disgusted over this.

    Too bad there are no security cameras, I think these types of facilities should have cameras for the safety of patients.

    There are so many people who could have done this: Staff member (any male from nursing care staff, maintenance, cleaning crew etc.), family member, family member of another patient, friend of staff (staff could have let friend in, that would render dna useless)

    Not sure why nobody noticed this. She must have been having cycles that stopped, must have been getting bigger etc.

    I was shocked that she has been in this state for a long time. Sad to read the story of her background. Apparently she almost drowned when she was 15.

    One question: Did they get the proper approvals to test all male employees? I had read conflicting things. One said they were in the process of testing male workers, one said they would never get the proper approvals to do this.
     
  11. BrianL

    BrianL Doom Buggy Driver

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    Yup. Law & Order used to be "ripped from the headlines" but now there are so many L&O episodes our headlines are ripped from Law & Order!
     
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  12. Pea-n-Me

    Pea-n-Me DIS Veteran

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    I was thinking along these lines, as well. I grew up working in nursing homes and even in college worked in a psychiatric long term care facility, as well as have been a hospital nurse for over 30 years now. My mother is currently in a rehab so it's been interesting to see the differences in how they operated then, and how they operate now. Besides some of the technology, things are much the same!

    My thought was that yes, as you outlined, it could've been almost anyone. But on the other hand, few would have access to her in an intimate way such as cleaning, bathing or dressing. I mean, for most people, there would be a big risk if someone walked in and saw clothes off or touching, etc. But for others, it would be a regular occurrence and not invite suspicion at all. I have the feeling that is why, in previous cases, it's been the nursing assistant. That is the person (or nurse) who would regularly have access in that way. And I certainly don't say this to disparage male nursing assistants, for I have worked with some wonderful ones over the years; just saying that they are usually the ones who would have the most access and opportunity without arousing suspicion.

    But a lot depends on how well the facility is operated. Are there cameras? Is there a culture of professionalism where bad behavior is called out, or is it a culture of anything goes and fear of speaking out takes precedence? How often do staff make rounds? Are rooms private or semi-private? How are the off-shifts run when no administrators are around? Have there been other complaints? What I have read about this particular facility is that the Medicaid and Medicare ratings (how well they adhere to federal and state policies) were very low and that there had been some member(s) of their staff previously reprimanded for wrongdoings that were sexual in nature. (Won't go into detail here but some articles elaborate more.)
     
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  13. georgina

    georgina DIS Veteran

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    I don't think they will willingly destroy DNA collected. I believe it will go into a database permanently. There is probably a lot of innocent people who have been DNA tested for other crimes in the database too.
     
  14. mummabear

    mummabear DIS Veteran

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    Yes I would. I really have no worry about my DNA being taken, used to rule me out of any crimes. I honestly wouldnt care if they took DNA at birth and kept it in a database for solving future crimes. The only people that have to worry are those breaking the law....
     
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  15. cabanafrau

    cabanafrau DIS Veteran

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    Simply having DNA taken and compared in an investigation does not mean the DNA data goes into the CODIS database. It's not unusual for family members of victims to have their DNA tested in cases for a variety of reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with being considered suspects or persons of interest. Their DNA data does not go into CODIS.

    Some states can and do require a convicted felon to submit to giving a DNA sample which is then entered into CODIS as a part of their criminal sentence.
     
  16. SgtTibbs

    SgtTibbs RunDisney'er

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    Until medical insurance companies deny you coverage based on your DNA profile. Also the "I've go nothing to hide" argument is flawed for a number of reasons.
     
  17. GreatLakes

    GreatLakes DIS Veteran

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    This is completely false. Everyone has the right to not have their DNA in a government database. Going by that flawed logic there is no need at all for search warrants. The notion of "if you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to hide" is as wrong as believing the world is flat.
     
  18. cabanafrau

    cabanafrau DIS Veteran

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    Fifth Amendment protections should be incredibly valuable to innocent people.
     
  19. Cannot_Wait_4Disney

    Cannot_Wait_4Disney Ok all you A cattle, get in ...

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    Said every government that wants more police powers than it should have.
    Beware the government that says, "Don't worry. Weeeee aren't taking YOUR rights away. We'rrrrre only taking THAT GUY'S a way. And the giving of this power to us won't cost you anything. Weeeee won't abuse the power. Weeee need this to fight crime. You're not against fighting crime. Arrrre you?"

    The reality is no they don't need it to fight crime. They've fought it for years without it. Your rights are being taken away, and they will abuse it. Just look at the abuses of civil forfeiture.
     
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  20. MrsCobraBubbles

    MrsCobraBubbles Life's too short to wear pants all the time

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    I feel sick after reading that. I hope they catch the bastard and throw the book at him!!!
     
  21. Suger Mag

    Suger Mag MamaBear

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    i hope you never lick the envelope when you pay your insurance bills, you give them your DNA every time, and DNA that is discarded does not need a court order for testing. Straws, gum, cups... all usually has enough DNA from your cheek cells that can be tested. If someone really wanted your DNA without your consent, it would not be that hard to get..., you unknowing throw it away prolly every day...more than enough. LOL I watch my forensic files... It is one of the ways police will get prelim results when they need to rule some one in or out... scope through the trash or grab a discarded cup.
     

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