Will your child need scholarships to attend college?

[Lilacs4Me]

I'm so thankful her school has a college counselor who is there to talk over the planning, the finances, applications, everything because on my own I suspect I'd be screwing this up in a big way.

Same here! DS16's counselor is the one who suggested the college that is now DS's #1, which was so incredible because it happens to be a college that I lived near when I was in high school, and a lot of my friends went there, and now their kids are going there (way to make me feel sooo old!). But it wasn't one that I ever thought about suggesting to DS just because we don't live in that area anymore and I didn't think it was "flashy" enough to entice DS to think about it. Funny enough, there will probably be kids that DS knew from before we moved when he was in 5th grade, that will be going to that same university. I never would have thought. And it was his HS Counselor, in a completely different state, that helped DS research his options and agreed with DS that this university was a great fit. I was so happy when he came home and told me he was interested in going there - and super grateful to his counselor!

 

[princesspiglet]

Thankfully we won't need financial aid or scholarships and it's not because we are rich! It's because my DH has spent 30+ years in the active duty army and has signed over his GI Bill and Yellow Ribbon program aid to our daughter, and thankfully the schools she is looking at except both programs. The most we will have to pay out of our pocket per year is 5K. This makes us both super happy because we are both still paying back student loans- 22 years after graduation!!

 

[Colleen27]

The flip side is, some Universities now won't accept AP credit. As my son's University put it, they want you to take THEIR version of a class. The make it clear it won't HURT you, but be prepared if the college doesn't accept the credit.

True, but AP classes still offer a higher level of engagement and analysis. That's my objection to the public school's "solution" of offering dual enrollment in lieu of AP sections. I've taken AP classes, and I've taken online community college classes. There's absolutely no comparison between the two. Not in the work load, not in the depth at which the subject is explored, and not in the quality of class discussion and interaction. Community college is an important educational asset but it isn't geared towards challenging bright students the way the AP program does.

Exactly what the University counselors said. You may not get the credit but you are better prepared. I know my daughter was APPALLED when she hit college at home any of her classmates didn't know how to write a paper.

I couldn't believe the level of writing ability among some of my classmates. In a writing-intensive major, no less. How do you not only make it to college without being able to write effectively but then take that lack of skill and decide to major in journalism?

 

[mjkacmom]

The flip side is, some Universities now won't accept AP credit. As my son's University put it, they want you to take THEIR version of a class. The make it clear it won't HURT you, but be prepared if the college doesn't accept the credit.

I think my ds'

I think the biggest difference between merit and need is that need-based aid is more knowable. If you make $A and you have one kid in college and two more at home, your expected contribution will be $X, expected gift aid will be $Y, expected loans will be $Z. From what I've heard from parents of older kids, the net price calculators are pretty reliable. But merit aid is much more subjective. There's no knowing how strong the competition will be in a given year, or what will make one applicant stand out above the others, or precisely what the scholarship committee is looking for, or which position the sports team needs to fill in a particular class. There's a huge element of the unknown in any merit competition, while need-based aid policies tend to be similar from year to year and applied more or less evenly across all members of the incoming class.

I've really struggled with the realistic expectations angle. We have emphasized the importance of graduating debt-free, especially for DD who wants to go on to grad school. But at the same time, how do you tell a straight A student with a great resume that she should be considering community college or an in-state school that doesn't offer her intended major in order to save money? We can afford a 2+2 program without aid but not much more than that. I'm so thankful her school has a college counselor who is there to talk over the planning, the finances, applications, everything because on my own I suspect I'd be screwing this up in a big way.

Your last paragraph sums up the dilemma for so many, one I will struggle with in two years. Fortunately, the business programs at dd20 and Ds18's are great, and in state. My friend struggled having her ds turn down Boston College for Rutgers, but couldn't justify the extra cost (especially living here where the median household income is $80,000 - no one gets need based, even though they need it). That is why our state incentive program stinks - the top 10% don't want to go to community college.

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

The 'class of 20xx' threads are fascinating to me and I have learned a great deal from them. Just gearing up at this point!

Yes! DS in now in his 2nd year of college, and DD will start in the Fall. I started reading all the "Class of 20XX" and scholarship/financial aid threads on the DIS when DS started high school. The education I got from the parents in those threads was so much better than any seminar, book or guidance counselor could have given me!

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

Oops! Sorry about that. I meant $7000 a SEMESTER. I fixed it in the PP. It was late last night when I posted!

I wish it was $7000 a year! Still not too bad at $14K a year (I used to pay about that just in daycare costs for the three kids!), but yes, your entire post is completely on point.

I was thinking, "What state is that?" Lol.

You should move to California! There are 2 public university systems in Ca - the University of California (UC) system and the California State University (CSU). The UC system costs what you would expect for an in state school. The CSU schools are cheap in comparison. My niece will be at Fresno State next year and tuition is $6312 total for the year! Room & board is still high ($9400/year).

 

[mjkacmom]

You should move to California! There are 2 public university systems in Ca - the University of California (UC) system and the California State University (CSU). The UC system costs what you would expect for an in state school. The CSU schools are cheap in comparison. My niece will be a Fresno State next year and tuition is $6312 total for the year! Room & board is still high ($9400/year).

That seems low for room and board - both of my college students pay over $12,000. My cousin's family lives in CA, thought about dd taking a couple of years to nanny for them and establish residence - lol.

 

[Nancyg56]

I listened to a presentation by our high school activities director. I don't know where he got his figures, or whether they are accurate, but he said the "average" athletic scholarship is $6000. The average academic scholarship is $12000.

I am not at sure of figures either, but I feel that there are more avenues than athletics. My DGD is in an agricultural program, a member of FFA, and has already received an internship in her sophomore year. My DD and DSIL have already been discussing college with her, ad she has attended some fairs. DD will not let her have a mountain of debt hanging over her head upon her graduation, so they know that while she will be attending some sort of ag science college or university, she will be choosing wisely. In the meantime she is adding to her "resume".

I can't speak for the organizations in all states, but I can say that Texas FFA and Texas 4-H allow for some very competitive and rewarding scholarships and not just one or two. Last year with Texas FFA alone there were:
~ 15 $20,000
~ 60 $18,000
~ 5 $16,000
~ 45 $10,000
~ 3 $5,000
~ 3 $4,000
~ 6 $2,000

They first look at class rank, gpa and act/sat and then narrow down through majors, involvement, etc.
Back in 2003 when I graduated, I had $10,000 (that was the highest amount back then) from Texas FFA, $14,000 presidential from my 4-year university, several $1,000 and $5000 scholarships and some smaller ones. I was in college for 4 years and actually got money back after paying for tuition, room, board, books, etc. Without those it would have been loans and pay as you go for ANY higher education for me.

FFA is a wonderful way to gain financial aid. It is not a shooin for an all expense paid ride, but for students who are participate and who work hard to not only keep their grades up, but to take advantage of all of the other programs offered in the program, there is an opportunity for some assistance.

My DGD is not going to rely on financial assistance or scholarship. She will certainly apply for both, but my DD and DSIl have determined that they will provide her education. DD has said that she will be included n the financial discussions because while they want her to go to the school of her choice, there is a finite amount of money and they do not want her leaving with debt.

 

[mom2rb]

My twins both have scholarships, one only academic, one a combination of academic and dance. The scholarships make the price to attend a very small private school about the same as living at home and driving to the local university. This way my boys get to live on campus and be more a part of the school. So far we haven't had to take out any student loans. Everything I make goes to their tuition, room and board. Their dorm has a kitchen, so I spent the summer teaching them how to cook. That cut the price down by $7000 a year, by buying groceries vs a meal plan.

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

That seems low for room and board - both of my college students pay over $12,000. My cousin's family lives in CA, thought about dd taking a couple of years to nanny for them and establish residence - lol.

Yep, the CSU schools are a bargain, especially for expensive California! $12,000 for room & board seems high to me. DS's R&B is $10,756/year (UVA). At the 2 state schools DD is considering R&B is $8564/yr (VT) and $9334/yr (JMU).

 

[mnrose]

I think a lot of parents have a "head in the sand" approach and think their "snowflake" is surely so amazing that tons of merit aid is coming his/her way. This is by far the exception and not the rule. For every "snowflake" that gets a great scholarship, there are probably 10 who get nothing or who get "loans." Gee, thanks for nothing. LOL.

I've taken net cost calculators for a ton of colleges/universities and when they all come back with the same answer (my expected family contribution is 100% of the cost), well, I start to believe it. So, we expect nothing. And, we've got a plan for that. If some school decides to throw a few scholarship $$$ our way, it's gravy.

 

[Colleen27]

Your last paragraph sums up the dilemma for so many, one I will struggle with in two years. Fortunately, the business programs at dd20 and Ds18's are great, and in state. My friend struggled having her ds turn down Boston College for Rutgers, but couldn't justify the extra cost (especially living here where the median household income is $80,000 - no one gets need based, even though they need it). That is why our state incentive program stinks - the top 10% don't want to go to community college.

Our state doesn't even have an incentive program. There's a small one-time grant for kids from really poor families (I don't remember if it is food stamps or medicaid that is the qualifier), but no general incentive.

Fortunately we're in a low cost of living area (median income 37K in my zip) and we're a pretty typical family in that regard, so while we're too well off for Pell grants DD will get significant institutional need-based aid if she can get into one of the schools she has her sights set on. But getting in is the hard part... Georgetown is currently her top choice, pending campus visits to three more that are on her short list, and the acceptance rate is in the mid-teens. But hopefully being a working class kid from a small town in a flyover state will work to her advantage, set her apart from the pack a bit, and she's hoping her 4H involvement will help as well since it covers all those things college counselors stress. Leadership, individual initiative, commitment and growth, etc.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I'm so thankful her school has a college counselor who is there to talk over the planning, the finances, applications, everything because on my own I suspect I'd be screwing this up in a big way.

I think the HS counselors do a decent job, but they are very busy and have a lot to do for each graduating senior. I didn't know this ahead of time, but they write a letter of recommendation for each student in addition to all their other duties, and in addition to letters students get from their teachers. Every student.

I think what I question more is what type of agenda the schools have. Ours seemed to be very focused on their statistics about how many of their students went off to four year colleges after graduation. I think the percentage was in the mid to high 90s. I noticed at the college information sessions for parents, they never really mentioned community colleges, which was a head scratcher for me because I think the 2/2 program our state has is a good one and would be a nice option for many students - but no, it wasn't something touted at all, which I think is a shame. If families do learn about it, it's mostly on their own. Another clue I got was from a teacher at Open House senior year. She was talking to us about college choices, and warned us to not only look at statistics about what percentage went off to four year colleges, but what percentage of kids were still there a couple of years later. Those statistics, she said, were very different. We already know quite a few local freshman and sophomores who have either changed schools already, plan to next year, or are taking time off after their first year. We also know several who've decided they prefer to commute from home rather than live in a dorm after doing so their first semester or first year, some of these being part of the group changing schools also.

 

[Colleen27]

You should move to California! There are 2 public university systems in Ca - the University of California (UC) system and the California State University (CSU). The UC system costs what you would expect for an in state school. The CSU schools are cheap in comparison. My niece will be at Fresno State next year and tuition is $6312 total for the year! Room & board is still high ($9400/year).

Yeah, but you have to be able to afford to live in California! I interviewed for a job out there once and was super excited to see the salary - twice what I was making here in Michigan! Then I looked into the cost of living... and found that a studio apartment out there rented for 3-4 times what I was paying to rent a 2 bedroom house here.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I couldn't believe the level of writing ability among some of my classmates. In a writing-intensive major, no less. How do you not only make it to college without being able to write effectively but then take that lack of skill and decide to major in journalism?

I think we can, at least in part, thank some of the state mandated testing for this. At least according to what I saw with my own kids. Rather than teaching how to write in elementary school, they taught them how to pass the test. That included, early on, getting the "main idea of the story" with worksheets, as opposed to actually writing. I was outright told not to worry about it, and that "the writing part would come later". Well guess what, it didn't for many students. Thankfully mine were able to catch up in high school, but it was a struggle. I heard many English teachers complaining about it over the years. But even before this, there were problems. My sister teaches at the college level, and she said some of the writing she sees is horrendous. She actually hands papers back and won't grade them until the writing is fixed.

 

[Colleen27]

I think the HS counselors do a decent job, but they are very busy and have a lot to do for each graduating senior. I didn't know this ahead of time, but they write a letter of recommendation for each student in addition to all their other duties, and in addition to letters students get from their teachers. Every student.

I think what I question more is what type of agenda the schools have. Ours seemed to be very focused on their statistics about how many of their students went off to four year colleges after graduation. I think the percentage was in the mid to high 90s. I noticed at the college information sessions for parents, they never really mentioned community colleges, which was a head scratcher for me because I think the 2/2 program our state has is a good one and would be a nice option for many students - but no, it wasn't something touted at all, which I think is a shame. If families do learn about it, it's mostly on their own. Another clue I got was from a teacher at Open House senior year. She was talking to us about college choices, and warned us to not only look at statistics about what percentage went off to four year colleges, but what percentage of kids were still there a couple of years later. Those statistics, she said, were very different. We already know quite a few local freshman and sophomores who have either changed schools already, plan to next year, or are taking time off after their first year. We also know several who've decided they prefer to commute from home rather than live in a dorm after doing so their first semester or first year, some of these being part of the group changing schools also.

DD goes to a small private high school (<200 students total), and they have a specific counselor that handles nothing but college advising. The kids start meeting with her in 8th grade, as soon as they enroll, and continue to do so as they plan their schedules each year and then more often as application season gets closer. There is a second counselor that handles all the other "guidance counselor" duties, dealing with behavior problems and academic probation and other student concerns.

I agree with you about the school's agenda making a difference. I feel like we're getting good advice from DD's college counselor, but as a private school they're very motivated to help kids get into their "reach" schools because sending kids to top colleges looks good on their marketing materials. They brag not only about where the kids go but also how much in scholarships they receive, how many graduate in 4 years, how many go on to grad school, etc. and also about professional accomplishments of particularly successful grads. Our public school, on the other hand, really pushes the 2+2 and community college paths - both of which are well suited to the economic and social conditions of the community - but I've heard from other parents that they aren't a whole lot of help with navigating the process of applying to competitive out-of-state schools. And they don't keep tabs on their alumni the way the private school does so I don't know of if they make any information available on longer-term outcomes.

 

[mjkacmom]

Yep, the CSU schools are a bargain, especially for expensive California! $12,000 for room & board seems high to me. DS's R&B is $10,756/year (UVA). At the 2 state schools DD is considering R&B is $8564/yr (VT) and $9334/yr (JMU).

Housing in NJ isn't cheap. The closest state school charges $14,000+ for room and board. I can't seem to find a NJ college with room and board under $11,000.

 

[tvguy]

True, but AP classes still offer a higher level of engagement and analysis. ABSOLUTELY! That's my objection to the public school's "solution" of offering dual enrollment in lieu of AP sections. I've taken AP classes, and I've taken online community college classes. There's absolutely no comparison between the two. Not in the work load, not in the depth at which the subject is explored, and not in the quality of class discussion and interaction. Community college is an important educational asset but it isn't geared towards challenging bright students the way the AP program does.



I couldn't believe the level of writing ability among some of my classmates. In a writing-intensive major, no less. How do you not only make it to college without being able to write effectively but then take that lack of skill and decide to major in journalism?

.

 

[crjack]

I have two in college now - both here in MA where we live. DD did not need a scholarship to attend college but she needed the one she received in order to attend the private school she does in Boston. Without it, there would have been more discussions on the issue of high debt for an undergraduate degree and we would have pushed her to go to U Mass.

Fortunately the school she liked the best also gave her a decent merit scholarship for all four years. Her brother attends a state school and the savings from his lower tuition, combined with other savings, helps to cover the gap but just barely and we still have one more year to go.

We are not opposed to her sharing some of the financial responsibility for tuition through loans but we did not want her to come up with a large amount of debt as she starts out. Like many areas, cost of living is high here and if she stays in Boston it will take a lot in order to eventually buy a home.

My job has me interacting with companies in all different industries. Personally I think what you study right now means so much more than where you study in most cases. (I understand the connections, etc from an Ivy) Some fields simply pay more than others and if you are selecting a major in a field that is not known for it's pay scale you have to be mindful of your student debt.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

You should move to California! There are 2 public university systems in Ca - the University of California (UC) system and the California State University (CSU). The UC system costs what you would expect for an in state school. The CSU schools are cheap in comparison. My niece will be at Fresno State next year and tuition is $6312 total for the year! Room & board is still high ($9400/year).

I almost did when my sister lived out there. Then I met my husband, lol. We're pretty happy in MA, but the colleges are very expensive, and there's little help for middle class families. My DS was looking at one college in FL and its athletic program. The coach actually told us he takes most of his players from in-state simply because the state of FL gives him $19K per player, $29K if their GPA was above 3.5, and that gives him a lot more funding to play around with, which makes total sense. (Little wonder their brand new stadium was so amazing!) So it's really interesting to me to see how it works for people in other states. I think those who have these types of programs are very fortunate when it comes to college costs. I always try to keep it in mind when reading some of these college threads. It's not always apples to apples depending on where you are.