Will you fly on a Boeing 737 Max 8?

Will you fly on a Boeing 737 Max 8?

  • Yes

    Votes: 51 32.5%
  • No

    Votes: 79 50.3%
  • Not Sure

    Votes: 27 17.2%

  • Total voters
    157
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Not open for further replies.

kdonnel

DVC-BCV
Joined
Feb 1, 2001
In the past, this may have been true. Black boxes are headed to Europe to be analyzed, not US. USA is losing credibility quickly.
It is not a matter of the USA losing credibility. It is a matter of the rest of the world also adopting best practices for aviation disaster investigation.

Best practices are best practices. It does not matter what country you represent as an investigator, just that you follow industry agreed upon best practices.
 
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LSUmiss

DIS Veteran
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
And if the FAA/NTSB gather data that shows the airplane should be grounded, I’m sure they will do so. In the meantime I don’t see the need to panic.
So they did gather enough data now including Boeing themselves suggesting they be grounded BEFORE today’s decision. So here’s the thing, all of those flights were possibly at risk while they debated. Other countries thought the risk wasn’t worth it, but we decided to wait for more evidence. I find that disturbing. Imo you ground them until there’s evidence that they’re definitely safe not the opposite.
 
  • kdonnel

    DVC-BCV
    Joined
    Feb 1, 2001
    Other countries thought the risk wasn’t worth it, but we decided to wait for more evidence. I find that disturbing.
    I find it refreshing that a knee jerk decision was not made but instead cooler heads prevailed and a decision was made after evidence was gathered and analyzed. Much like our criminal justice system should work. Much like any system should work.
     

    LSUmiss

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Sep 8, 2014
    Never said the grounding was to hurt Boeing. I said it was to curry political and public relation gains.

    And yes, these days, everything is political.
    I don’t think it is. I think ppl are paranoid it is or use it as an excuse when they don’t like something. But I do think everything is about $$.
     

    LSUmiss

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Sep 8, 2014
    I find it refreshing that a knee jerk decision was not made but instead cooler heads prevailed and a decision was made after evidence was gathered and analyzed. Much like our criminal justice system should work. Much like any system should work.
    I don’t think the 157 dead passengers on the ethopian flight would find that refreshing. When human life is at stake, companies should err on the side of caution always.
     

    nd5056

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Dec 10, 2008
    No, I would not fly this plane, based on the article below:

    "...William Waldock, an aviation-safety professor at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University....
    ...Waldock said the way the planes both crashed - a fatal nosedive - was likely to raise suspicion. Boeing will likely look more closely at the flight-management system and automation on the Max, he said.
    "Investigators are not big believers in coincidence," he said..."

    "...The plane was delivered to Ethiopian Airlines in November. The jet's last maintenance was on Feb. 4, and it had flown just 1,200 hours.

    Days after the Indonesian accident, Boeing notified airlines that faulty information from a sensor could cause the plane to automatically point the nose down. The automated system kicks in if sensors indicate that a plane is about to lose lift, or go into an aerodynamic stall. Gaining speed by diving can prevent a stall.

    The notice reminded pilots of the procedure for handling such a situation, which is to disable the system causing the automatic nose-down movements..."

    What if the system was locked out and the pilots could not disable it? Now more:

    "...Two pilots opearting the aircraft in the U.S. reported to authorities in November that the nose of their plane suddenly dipped after engaging the autopilot, ABC News reports..."
    https://abc7chicago.com/ethiopia-crash-uk-authorities-ground-boeing-737-max-8/5182971/
     
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  • kdonnel

    DVC-BCV
    Joined
    Feb 1, 2001
    No, I would not fly this plane, based on the article below:

    What if the system was locked out and the pilots could not disable it? Now more:

    https://abc7chicago.com/ethiopia-crash-uk-authorities-ground-boeing-737-max-8/5182971/
    There is no system on a plane that can not be disabled by the pilots by pulling a circuit breaker.

    Ultimately the pilots flying the two crashed planes are at fault if it turns out turning off MCAS was the procedure needed to prevent the crashes as long as that procedure was properly documented in the operation manual provided by the plane manufacturer.

    If it is in the manual from Boeing and was not part of the Lion Air or Ethiopian Air training for their pilots, those training departments are to blame as are the regulatory agencies that signed off on the training program for the airlines.

    If Boeing neglected to mention it, well then Boeing and the FAA, CAA, and EASA are all fault for issuing an air worthiness directive for an airplane type that did not provide proper documentation to the purchaser.

    With properly trained pilots I would not hesitate to fly this plane.

    There is so much automation in the cockpit that pilots have to know to turn off in the case of malfunctions, MCAS is not the exception.
     

    nd5056

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Dec 10, 2008
    There is no system on a plane that can not be disabled by the pilots by pulling a circuit breaker.

    Ultimately the pilots flying the two crashed planes are at fault if it turns out turning off MCAS was the procedure needed to prevent the crashes as long as that procedure was properly documented in the operation manual provided by the plane manufacturer.

    If it is in the manual from Boeing and was not part of the Lion Air or Ethiopian Air training for their pilots, those training departments are to blame as are the regulatory agencies that signed off on the training program for the airlines.

    If Boeing neglected to mention it, well then Boeing and the FAA, CAA, and EASA are all fault for issuing an air worthiness directive for an airplane type that did not provide proper documentation to the purchaser.

    With properly trained pilots I would not hesitate to fly this plane.

    There is so much automation in the cockpit that pilots have to know to turn off in the case of malfunctions, MCAS is not the exception.
    I don't have your knowledge, but whatever you wrote makes sense. But, what the pilots can do in case of a total system failure?

    The last crash accident witnesses mentioned a black smoke coming out of the tail when the plane was going down, where did that come from? Many modern cars catch on fire suddenly, like BMW's lately?
     

    DLgal

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 12, 2013
    There is no system on a plane that can not be disabled by the pilots by pulling a circuit breaker.

    Ultimately the pilots flying the two crashed planes are at fault if it turns out turning off MCAS was the procedure needed to prevent the crashes as long as that procedure was properly documented in the operation manual provided by the plane manufacturer.

    If it is in the manual from Boeing and was not part of the Lion Air or Ethiopian Air training for their pilots, those training departments are to blame as are the regulatory agencies that signed off on the training program for the airlines.

    If Boeing neglected to mention it, well then Boeing and the FAA, CAA, and EASA are all fault for issuing an air worthiness directive for an airplane type that did not provide proper documentation to the purchaser.

    With properly trained pilots I would not hesitate to fly this plane.

    There is so much automation in the cockpit that pilots have to know to turn off in the case of malfunctions, MCAS is not the exception.
    An Ethiopian Airlines spokesman said that they were aware of the MCAS override protocol and their pilots had all completed the required training to handle such an event.

    I will not accept that these two accidents were a coincidence, based on the similar circumstances of them. My gut feeling is that the system is engaging and for some reason, NOT disengaging when the pilots attempt to override it. When a plane has just taken off, there isn't a whole lot of time or altitude to fix a nosedive. You have seconds, a minute at best, when a plane is going over 400mph and has barely cleared 10000 feet.

    The pilots communicated that they were having "flight control problems," meaning the plane was NOT responding to pilot inputs. They asked for and received clearance to return to the airport, but could not maintain control of the plane.

    The Lion Air crash has been blamed, preliminarily, on a "faulty airspeed indicator."

    Something is wrong with this plane model and it needs a fix or they need to scrap it altogether. The fact that Boeing ADMITTED the Max 8's have faulty sensors that may produce erroneous data, which can trigger an automated system to engage in an unnecessary and catastrophic maneuver, seems criminal. They should have issued a fix for the faulty sensors, not created some workaround.
     

    capegirl

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jan 1, 2003
    If this plane was safe, it would not suddenly go into a nose dive. This is not normal, and something is very wrong. I would never be comfortable flying on this plane even with a pilot who was properly trained.
     
  • msb578

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 9, 2012
    How has Southwest had ~31,000 successful flights on this aircraft (according to themselves)? Was it just going to be a matter of time for them?
     

    MillauFr

    Buzz & Woody
    Joined
    Aug 5, 2011
    40,000 people died in car accidents in the US last year. I did stop driving so much and gave up my car 18 years ago. They are too dangerous.
     

    Maistre Gracey

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 23, 2002
    An Ethiopian Airlines spokesman said that they were aware of the MCAS override protocol and their pilots had all completed the required training to handle such an event.

    I will not accept that these two accidents were a coincidence, based on the similar circumstances of them. My gut feeling is that the system is engaging and for some reason, NOT disengaging when the pilots attempt to override it. When a plane has just taken off, there isn't a whole lot of time or altitude to fix a nosedive. You have seconds, a minute at best, when a plane is going over 400mph and has barely cleared 10000 feet.

    The pilots communicated that they were having "flight control problems," meaning the plane was NOT responding to pilot inputs. They asked for and received clearance to return to the airport, but could not maintain control of the plane.

    The Lion Air crash has been blamed, preliminarily, on a "faulty airspeed indicator."

    Something is wrong with this plane model and it needs a fix or they need to scrap it altogether. The fact that Boeing ADMITTED the Max 8's have faulty sensors that may produce erroneous data, which can trigger an automated system to engage in an unnecessary and catastrophic maneuver, seems criminal. They should have issued a fix for the faulty sensors, not created some workaround.
    A fair amount of speculation in your post.
    I’ll wait for the report.
     

    Maistre Gracey

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 23, 2002
    If this plane was safe, it would not suddenly go into a nose dive. This is not normal, and something is very wrong. I would never be comfortable flying on this plane even with a pilot who was properly trained.
    A Boeing 767 nose dived a few weeks ago. Is that normal? No. That is never normal, but it *may or may not* be an airplane design issue.
     

    ForMyBoys

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jan 13, 2013
    I find it refreshing that a knee jerk decision was not made but instead cooler heads prevailed and a decision was made after evidence was gathered and analyzed. Much like our criminal justice system should work. Much like any system should work.
    Well to be fair in the criminal justice system they do arrest suspects and require posted bonds. To me this would be similar to grounding planes while they are being investigated.
     

    Maistre Gracey

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 23, 2002
    Well to be fair in the criminal justice system they do arrest suspects and require posted bonds. To me this would be similar to grounding planes while they are being investigated.
    I’m all for the grounding now that at least there is some evidence that the two crashes *may* be related.
    Without that evidence, the grounding case is weak imo.
     
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