Why can't Disney and other amusement parks make all roller coasters accessble

[old lady]

Can't find ways of doing that?

 

[BillSears]

I hate to be a downer on this and in a perfect world everything would be totally accessible. But for some ride it's just not possible. Rolling onto a hanging roller coaster with loops and tight turns isn't going to be possible/safe. Each wheelchair has different dimensions and finding someway to safely lock it and the user down isn't going to happen.

I tried the fairly new Skull Island: Reign of Kong at Universal. They do allow you to roll onto the ride and get strapped down so I thought it would be perfect. However I was actually worried that the stresses were going to break the frame of my wheelchair. I was tied down very tightly and the lap belt felt fairly secure for me. But the ride rocking back and forth stressed my wheelchair from side to side in ways it really wasn't designed for. I can't imagine what stresses a roller coaster would do.

But there is no reason why a smooth ride like the new Na'vi River Journey should be not accessible. It would have been easy to have a wheelchair roll on boat.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I hate to be a downer on this and in a perfect world everything would be totally accessible. But for some ride it's just not possible. Rolling onto a hanging roller coaster with loops and tight turns isn't going to be possible/safe. Each wheelchair has different dimensions and finding someway to safely lock it and the user down isn't going to happen.

I tried the fairly new Skull Island: Reign of Kong at Universal. They do allow you to roll onto the ride and get strapped down so I thought it would be perfect. However I was actually worried that the stresses were going to break the frame of my wheelchair. I was tied down very tightly and the lap belt felt fairly secure for me. But the ride rocking back and forth stressed my wheelchair from side to side in ways it really wasn't designed for. I can't imagine what stresses a roller coaster would do.

But there is no reason why a smooth ride like the new Na'vi River Journey should be not accessible. It would have been easy to have a wheelchair roll on boat.

Don't feed the troll...

 

[lanejudy]

Since the OP has a history of making controversial posts and then disappearing... I will leave this open for now but with a caution. If anyone has knowledge about the dynamics and engineering involved with creating rides, maybe we can all learn something. If discussion turns argumentative, the thread will be closed.

 

[BillSears]

Sorry about engaging the OP, I didn't know the history of their posts.

 

[Queen of the WDW Scene]

Why can't you ever come back to a controversial thread that you started to respond?

 

[DisneyOma]

It's not so much the wheelchair as the person in it - the body has to be supported in a safe way, and a wheelchair does not do that at roller coaster levels.

 

[cobright]

Here's a fun sorta-related bit of trivia. Back in the 50s air force colonel John Stapp was testing the limits of human resilience with a rocket sled in the desert. He survived a deceleration from 650 mph within a hundred feet or so, a force of 46Gs. Airline furniture is designed to withstand lateral forces of around 19Gs.

Mobility devices are designed to withstand forces of 1 to 5Gs depending on which test is being done.

I hope and suspect they will get the boat ride accessible before long. But if every ride had to be no-transfer accessible all rides would be as exciting as PotC.

 

[FortForever]

Disney does a really great job of making most rides accessible. Being the mom of two disabled adults, one who is paraplegic, I think I'm qualified to say so. Compared to most of the fun places in the world, Disney is amazing at accommodating people with a wide range of disabilities.

 

[Darklord77]

I just got done reading an exhausting comments thread from a news story about the river boat in Pandora. Guests in wheelchairs have to transfer out of wheelchairs and into boats. Obviously some wheelchair users cannot do this and are not able to ride. This is where the debate began. I do not want to make this personal or turn it into an argument. I'm honestly wondering how ADA is applied when designing theme park rides. Some folks on the thread thought it is mandatory that every ride be able to accommodate a wheelchair. This obviously cannot be the case because I can use most rollercoasters as an example. Do ride designers just have to design for transfers from wheelchairs (at minimum) or does every ride have to be able to accommodate a wheelchair? I honestly don't know and I figured this would be the forum where I could get educated. I'm trying to read up on ADA guidelines, but I'll admit it's not easy reading.

 

[maxiesmom]

Can't find ways of doing that?

No they can't. All wheelchairs are not built the same, making it impossible.

 

[Kaytie]

I just got done reading an exhausting comments thread from a news story about the river boat in Pandora. Guests in wheelchairs have to transfer out of wheelchairs and into boats. Obviously some wheelchair users cannot do this and are not able to ride. This is where the debate began. I do not want to make this personal or turn it into an argument. I'm honestly wondering how ADA is applied when designing theme park rides. Some folks on the thread thought it is mandatory that every ride be able to accommodate a wheelchair. This obviously cannot be the case because I can use most rollercoasters as an example. Do ride designers just have to design for transfers from wheelchairs (at minimum) or does every ride have to be able to accommodate a wheelchair? I honestly don't know and I figured this would be the forum where I could get educated. I'm trying to read up on ADA guidelines, but I'll admit it's not easy reading.

Some drawings of transfer provisions, including measurements https://www.access-board.gov/guidel...ansfer-devices-for-use-with-an-amusement-ride
Also, the last section of this https://www.access-board.gov/guidel...on-amusement-rides/accessible-amusement-rides page states, "Each newly constructed or newly designed amusement ride must provide at least one wheelchair space, or at least one ride seat designed for transfer, or a transfer device designed to transfer a person using a wheelchair from the load and unload area to a ride seat (bolding mine).The choice of which type of access that is provided for each ride is left up to the operator or designer."

 

[BabyFu18]

As someone who uses a wheelchair I can say I absolutely would not feel safe riding a rollercoaster while still in my chair, that sounds terrifying to me! Wheelchairs aren't built for the type of force they would be subjected to on serious thrill rides, so even if wheelchair accessible roller coaster cars could be built it still wouldn't be safe in real world use because every wheelchair is different and they just aren't built for that purpose. So it's not all about why can't rides be built to include everyone but also about the fact that mobility aids have limitations and can't be safely pushed beyond that.

 

[DisneyOma]

Here's a fun sorta-related bit of trivia. Back in the 50s air force colonel John Stapp was testing the limits of human resilience with a rocket sled in the desert. He survived a deceleration from 650 mph within a hundred feet or so, a force of 46Gs. Airline furniture is designed to withstand lateral forces of around 19Gs.

Mobility devices are designed to withstand forces of 1 to 5Gs depending on which test is being done.

I hope and suspect they will get the boat ride accessible before long. But if every ride had to be no-transfer accessible all rides would be as exciting as PotC.

Some drawings of transfer provisions, including measurements https://www.access-board.gov/guidel...ansfer-devices-for-use-with-an-amusement-ride
Also, the last section of this https://www.access-board.gov/guidel...on-amusement-rides/accessible-amusement-rides page states, "Each newly constructed or newly designed amusement ride must provide at least one wheelchair space, or at least one ride seat designed for transfer, or a transfer device designed to transfer a person using a wheelchair from the load and unload area to a ride seat (bolding mine).The choice of which type of access that is provided for each ride is left up to the operator or designer."

The key word is "or" - my guess is there is seating designed for transfer. It just needs a side that lowers/swings down, flattens, etc.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I just got done reading an exhausting comments thread from a news story about the river boat in Pandora. Guests in wheelchairs have to transfer out of wheelchairs and into boats. Obviously some wheelchair users cannot do this and are not able to ride. This is where the debate began. I do not want to make this personal or turn it into an argument. I'm honestly wondering how ADA is applied when designing theme park rides. Some folks on the thread thought it is mandatory that every ride be able to accommodate a wheelchair. This obviously cannot be the case because I can use most rollercoasters as an example. Do ride designers just have to design for transfers from wheelchairs (at minimum) or does every ride have to be able to accommodate a wheelchair? I honestly don't know and I figured this would be the forum where I could get educated. I'm trying to read up on ADA guidelines, but I'll admit it's not easy reading.

I don't actually think that there are specific guidelines for theme parks. Anyone who travels with a wheel chair will tell you that while businesses may be required to provide some kind of accommodation---in practice, safety, practicality, structural issues trump that requirement.

Basically, they might put something in to avoid being fined or sued. But that doesn't mean it's practical or convenient, mostly because it differs from place to place about whether or not suing is actually a real possibility. Places where it would either be really bad publicity or just a daily impediment--those places will put significantly more money into accommodations. Major chain hotels and Disney are an example of the first- heavily trafficked public building like schools or pools or medical facilities like hospitals are an example of the latter.

It costs money, basically, to make those accommodations. We were so, so glad that we would not have retrofit my parents house for wheelchair use. Ramps and structural changes and lifts are heinously expensive. And if a business thinks they can avoid that they will.

And there are in reality places that those accommodations do not matter. Wheel chairs are really limited in terms of places like steep mountain trails, most theme parks, boutique hotels/historic sights. It isn't possible to retrofit some hotels because of the structure and size of the rooms. So they won't install a lift- there is no way to make their rooms accessible to begin with.

I guess what I'm saying is that the key word is "enforceable". Ada sets down only guidelines that can be enforced. That limits what they can actually require.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

Sometime it all comes down to safety for example her in Toronto our public transit organization was faced with having to make our aging streetcar fleet accessible by 2025 if they rebuilt them to extend their lives significantly. They sit about 8 feet above the ground and operate in the meddle of the street. , they looked at putting in a conventional wheelchair lift in them and because of the height and where they operate they deemed it to be unsafe as if someone fell or the lift malfunctions someone could be killed, so they went with a new lo floor model instead with a ramp that extends to help bridge the gap from the road to the inside of the vehicle. Now as far as them park attractions go as far as I know they have to call in the fire department to remove someone tha can't get themselves out on their own do to them having training to do so, having heavy wheelchairs on board a vehicle makes it more difficult to remove them so in the case of the Pandora boat ride it looks like they are going with Transfer only as they amy not feel it was safe to have a power chair or a guest remain in their personal chair onboard.

 

[KPeveler]

Sometime it all comes down to safety for example her in Toronto our public transit organization was faced with having to make our aging streetcar fleet accessible by 2025 if they rebuilt them to extend their lives significantly. They sit about 8 feet above the ground and operate in the meddle of the street. , they looked at putting in a conventional wheelchair lift in them and because of the height and where they operate they deemed it to be unsafe as if someone fell or the lift malfunctions someone could be killed, so they went with a new lo floor model instead with a ramp that extends to help bridge the gap from the road to the inside of the vehicle. Now as far as them park attractions go as far as I know they have to call in the fire department to remove someone tha can't get themselves out on their own do to them having training to do so, having heavy wheelchairs on board a vehicle makes it more difficult to remove them so in the case of the Pandora boat ride it looks like they are going with Transfer only as they amy not feel it was safe to have a power chair or a guest remain in their personal chair onboard.

I use my powerchair on both Small World and Jungle Cruise, so they have no problem with power chairs on boats. If they needed to evacuate me, they would just leave my chair until they could tow it around to the dock. They would put me in a stretcher or gurney or a chair or cot, depending on medical needs, until they could get my chair.

And even if they did not want power vehicles on the ride, there is no reason they could not make a boat for people with manual chairs.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

A (funny to me) note:
My DH is a civil designer. Everywhere we go, he looks at curbs....driving, walking, riding a bike, whatever. And I hear all the time: "that slope is too much" "curb is too high" "ramp is uneven" etc. He will actually note down the worst offenders and notify the local city office about the out of regulation curbs.
(he doesn't do things like that at buildings though. Guess he feels that architects deserve the lawsuit... )

Back on track:
DH says that there are both federal and state regulations regarding theme/amusement parks. A designer has to take both into account. He says there are some rides that are just physically impossible for some people to do, due to the nature of the ride. If you can't fit in the harness because your tummy/shoulders/hips are too big, you can't ride. If you're too tall and your head brushes the top of the ride, you don't ride (or if you're too short, and can't fit in the safety gear, you don't ride). If you can't hold yourself upright, you can't ride. It's not discrimination; it's safety.
He sent me a few quick links, didn't have time to dig more. *some of the information may be out of date, but gives a general idea of the requirements.

https://www.access-board.gov/guidel...on-facilities/guides/guide-on-amusement-rides

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/titleII_2010/title_ii_primer.html
"There are some situations where it simply is not possible to integrate people with disabilities without fundamentally altering the nature of a program, service, or activity. For example, moving a beach volleyball program into a gymnasium, so a player who uses a wheelchair can participate on a flat surface without sand, would “fundamentally alter” the nature of the game. The ADA does not require changes of this nature."

https://www.ada.gov/archive/t3hilght.htm
"In providing goods and services, a public accommodation may not use eligibility requirements that exclude or segregate individuals with disabilities, unless the requirements are necessary for the operation of the public accommodation.For example, excluding individuals with cerebral palsy from a movie theater or restricting individuals with Down's Syndrome to only certain areas of a restaurant would violate the regulation.Requirements that tend to screen out individuals with disabilities, such as requiring a blind person to produce a driver's license as the sole means of identification for cashing a check, are also prohibited.

Safety requirements may be imposed only if they are necessary for the safe operation of a place of public accommodation. They must be based on actual risks and not on mere speculation, stereotypes, or generalizations about individuals with disabilities.For example, an amusement park may impose height requirements for certain rides when required for safety. Extra charges may not be imposed on individuals with disabilities to cover the costs of measures necessary to ensure nondiscriminatory treatment, such as removing barriers or providing qualified interpreters."


http://www.adaag.com/ada-accessibility-guidelines/index.php
http://www.adaag.com/ada-accessibility-guidelines/index.php#A15.0
(there's a section in here about curbs..lol)
In section 15, there is a lot of specific information about amusement parks.