When Will the US Reach 100,000 COVID deaths?

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I saw someone recently say that a number of people aren't necessarily concerned with the economy opening up, at least not primarily, as they aren't interested in doing so in a way that will assure it can remain open and safe for all. Rather, they want to know that they can be served, and that is why they get so upset when things don't go how they plan. They want to be able to say "I want this" and have it be someone's job to please them. They don't care about that person, or their ability to make a living, they care about their own ability to use services. It doesn't seem far off.
 
This argument is intentionally disingenuous. In America's capitalistic system, individuals have the freedom to pursue economic prosperity, but this is not guaranteed. No, I don't support unlimited free handouts to encourage a nation of people to become dependent upon their government. I support a system where government allows individuals the freedom to make their living as they see fit; some will succeed; others will not. People that want to engage in work should not be inhibited by their government. The minimum wage argument is a fallacy. This was never meant to be a long-term living wage. No one starts out at minimum wage and 10 years later is still making the same salary and if so, it is by their own design. Again, prosperity is not and has never been guaranteed. But in this country, every legal citizen is afforded the *opportunity* to prosper. And for over 225 years that has been an opportunity unmatched in any other country on the globe.
Thank you for proving exactly my point about people not genuinely caring about the working class. You claimed I was being disingenuous. And then the rest of your post proved my point.
As for disingenuous nobody is talking about unlimited handouts in perpetuity. We're talking about helping people get through a pandemic that has been declared a national emergency. And no, nobody is guaranteed prosperity. Hence why a safety net is so needed.

As for people that want to engage in work not being inhibited, that's a nice utopian speech. But here in the real world we can, we do, and we must inhibit certain kinds of work every single day. You see in the real world We have laws against dumping pollution in the back 40. We have laws against cocaine dealing. We have truth in advertising laws. We have laws against child labor. And that's just to name a few rules that are necessary for the functioning of capitalism. It's easy to climb on one's soap box and present a utopia and claim I'm for this wonderful thing knowing full well that here in the real world, it doesn't work that way. And again, we're in a national emergency caused by a pandemic.

As for the U.S. being an opportunity unmatched for 225 years, I'm quite sure those that were slaves for a large chunk of those years would disagree. And I think the Canadian contingent around here would like a word with you on that. Today we are 10th in GDP per capita, 4th in median income. 13th in quality of life. We've been matched in several categories.


Ooooohhh...the always intellectually enlightening "I'm rubber, you're glue" comeback. Well played.
And I commend you for your angling abilities. You're just airmailing them into the boat today.
496990
 
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OP here.....

In 2005, I was asked to participate in a Man-on-the-Street survey.

First of two questions: Do I have a mobile phone? -yes-

Can my phone send text messages?

I realized pretty much immediately that they didn’t want to know the answer to the second question. They already knew the answer. Of course (!) my mobile phone can send text messages; they all could, even back in 2005.

What they really wanted to know is: Do I realize that my phone can send text messages? If they asked older people and younger people, will they answer differently? How many older people will answer ‘no’ or ‘I don’t know.’ The younger people invariably answered that their phones could send text messages because they used that feature all the time. But older people back then, maybe not.

In that spirit, I asked a question for which I knew the answer. when (maybe if) we would hit 100,000 deaths? Not because there was even a remote possibility we wouldn’t. What I really wanted to know is: how many people realized it? How many were in denial?

Remember, it was early on, and we already had 23K deaths, adding 2k per day. OF COURSE we were going to get there. Going at that rate, it would surely be the end of May, which is what I said when someone asked.

Now, quite a few folks accused me of schadenfreude, which is secretly getting pleasure of other’s misfortunes. That is a very nasty insult, it is politically motivated, and I could have reported those posts to the Moderators. But I like to think I can defend myself with my words rather than relying on the Mods.

So here goes: I experience grief over every unnecessary death. And I know very well why that doctor in NYC committed suicide. In the face of horrific unnecessary death and the lack of PPE and proper emergency management, protesters with guns were in denial about the severity of the problem and were actually making the situation even more difficult via operation gridlock, one of the most despicable acts associated with COVID 19.

Denial can be deadly. And that’s what I want to prevent.

So now it’s your turn.
 


OP here.....



In that spirit, I asked a question for which I knew the answer. when (maybe if) we would hit 100,000 deaths? Not because there was even a remote possibility we wouldn’t. What I really wanted to know is: how many people realized it? How many were in denial?

Remember, it was early on, and we already had 23K deaths, adding 2k per day. OF COURSE we were going to get there. Going at that rate, it would surely be the end of May, which is what I said when someone asked.

Now, quite a few folks accused me of schadenfreude, which is secretly getting pleasure of other’s misfortunes. That is a very nasty insult, it is politically motivated, and I could have reported those posts to the Moderators. But I like to think I can defend myself with my words rather than relying on the Mods.

So here goes: I experience grief over every unnecessary death. And I know very well why that doctor in NYC committed suicide. In the face of horrific unnecessary death and the lack of PPE and proper emergency management, protesters with guns were in denial about the severity of the problem and were actually making the situation even more difficult via operation gridlock, one of the most despicable acts associated with COVID 19.

Denial can be deadly. And that’s what I want to prevent.

So now it’s your turn.

That's incredibly well said, and exactly how I feel. It's not schadenfreude at all. It's truly an attempt to understand what others are thinking, and how they are internalizing the information.. and how that is affecting their behavior in public.

For me, watching this unfold, has been one of the most horrific things I've ever witnessed in my lifetime. Watching how our leaders have handled it, just devastating. And knowing that it didn't have to unfold this way at all....soul crushing. Realizing how woefully unprepared we were, as the "greatest nation on the planet"....just unbelievable.

But, it's summer, and here at the Jersey Shore....there are plenty of people just out there acting like..."it's all good". And it's not. We may get a respite this summer, but any of us who are reading the scientific literature know that we will have Round Two...this fall/winter. So, we're doing our best to enjoy a "socially distanced" summer with some friends we trust. But we're fearing that this pandemic will be politicized more than it already has been, as we approach the election, which will inevitably lead to more unnecessary suffering and deaths.

Anyway, I just wanted to say I really appreciated your thoughtful post.
 
That's incredibly well said, and exactly how I feel. It's not schadenfreude at all. It's truly an attempt to understand what others are thinking, and how they are internalizing the information.. and how that is affecting their behavior in public.

For me, watching this unfold, has been one of the most horrific things I've ever witnessed in my lifetime. Watching how our leaders have handled it, just devastating. And knowing that it didn't have to unfold this way at all....soul crushing. Realizing how woefully unprepared we were, as the "greatest nation on the planet"....just unbelievable.

But, it's summer, and here at the Jersey Shore....there are plenty of people just out there acting like..."it's all good". And it's not. We may get a respite this summer, but any of us who are reading the scientific literature know that we will have Round Two...this fall/winter. So, we're doing our best to enjoy a "socially distanced" summer with some friends we trust. But we're fearing that this pandemic will be politicized more than it already has been, as we approach the election, which will inevitably lead to more unnecessary suffering and deaths.

Anyway, I just wanted to say I really appreciated your thoughtful post.
I appreciated your post as well. :flower3:
 


I've been horrified too. The deaths are bad enough but the indifference and denial from some has been mind-boggling.

Especially when you realize it did not have to be this way. At all. Our death rate surpasses that of every other advanced nation. And for a country that keeps telling ourselves we have the "best" everything, this is unconscionable. And, unacceptable. As an example, Germany (1/4 our size) has 8498 deaths. By that measure, we should be tracking 34-35K deaths, NOT 100K plus. South Korea (1/7 our size) has had 269 fatalities. By that measure, we should be tracking less than 2000 deaths...not 100K plus. And, the fact that some people are not outraged by that simply defies explanation. Why is ANY of that ok? Why are people shrugging their shoulders and going "oh well." Seething with anger.
 
I have followed this thread from the beginning. I never posted my answer but secretly thought it would be mid-August. I am sad to say I was wrong. My heart breaks for all these lives lost.
 
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It's not just that they're indifferent and in denial, they've become more rabid than ever. They'll make any argument or any allegation that they think is profitable to them at the moment. They've declared covid culture war.
Our poor governor. 😭

A group made dummy with his face on it and hung it in effigy in front of the Capitol and then marched to the governor’s mansion, stood on the front porch and chanted hateful things. The flames of this behavior are being fanned by actual government leaders. One state senator in particular. It’s just sickening.
 
Especially when you realize it did not have to be this way. At all. Our death rate surpasses that of every other advanced nation. And for a country that keeps telling ourselves we have the "best" everything, this is unconscionable. And, unacceptable. As an example, Germany (1/4 our size) has 8498 deaths. By that measure, we should be tracking 34-35K deaths, NOT 100K plus. South Korea (1/7 our size) has had 269 fatalities. By that measure, we should be tracking less than 2000 deaths...not 100K plus. And, the fact that some people are not outraged by that simply defies explanation. Why is ANY of that ok? Why are people shrugging their shoulders and going "oh well." Seething with anger.
What the outrage should be is what happened at Nursing Homes. 40% - 50% of deaths occurred in Nursing Homes. Governors sending Coridiv 19 patients to nursing homes, hiding the deaths numbers that were occurring at nursing homes etc .... And NYC where 30% of deaths are, not sanitizing subways until recently...
 
What the outrage should be is what happened at Nursing Homes. 40% - 50% of deaths occurred in Nursing Homes. Governors sending Coridiv 19 patients to nursing homes, hiding the deaths numbers that were occurring at nursing homes etc .... And NYC where 30% of deaths are, not sanitizing subways until recently...
In Kentucky our governor reports daily about long term care and prison cases. They have evacuated some facilities when the spread could not be contained. We have about 40% of our deaths from long term care. They aren’t hiding it.
 
In Kentucky our governor reports daily about long term care and prison cases. They have evacuated some facilities when the spread could not be contained. We have about 40% of our deaths from long term care. They aren’t hiding it.
When you say "they" are you saying governors in other states or just Kentucky? Other governors have been caught....

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...n-t-know-how-many-nursing-homes-have-n1202281
https://www.indystar.com/story/news...sing-homes-lags-many-other-states/3067784001/
https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/nursing-home-coronavirus-deaths-dont-match-official-ny-state-tallies/
if you google nursing homes death news articles.... Multiple states did not handle the nursing home issues from the start. After the first incident in Washington State nursing home at start, it was known that nursing homes would the biggest hot spot...
 
When you say "they" are you saying governors in other states or just Kentucky? Other governors have been caught....

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...n-t-know-how-many-nursing-homes-have-n1202281
https://www.indystar.com/story/news...sing-homes-lags-many-other-states/3067784001/
https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/nursing-home-coronavirus-deaths-dont-match-official-ny-state-tallies/
if you google nursing homes death news articles.... Multiple states did not handle the nursing home issues from the start. After the first incident in Washington State nursing home at start, it was known that nursing homes would the biggest hot spot...
Just in my state. They are very transparent with statistics, st least from what I can tell.
 
Especially when you realize it did not have to be this way. At all. Our death rate surpasses that of every other advanced nation. And for a country that keeps telling ourselves we have the "best" everything, this is unconscionable. And, unacceptable. As an example, Germany (1/4 our size) has 8498 deaths. By that measure, we should be tracking 34-35K deaths, NOT 100K plus. South Korea (1/7 our size) has had 269 fatalities. By that measure, we should be tracking less than 2000 deaths...not 100K plus. And, the fact that some people are not outraged by that simply defies explanation. Why is ANY of that ok? Why are people shrugging their shoulders and going "oh well." Seething with anger.

This is just not true. You realize we're a country of 330M. You need to look at the death rate by population. When you do that (and it's easy to do on Worldometers by clicking the arrow on the deaths per 1M people button) we are below several first world countries including the UK, Italy, Netherlands, Ireland, Sweden, France and Spain.
 
This is just not true. You realize we're a country of 330M. You need to look at the death rate by population. When you do that (and it's easy to do on Worldometers by clicking the arrow on the deaths per 1M people button) we are below several first world countries including the UK, Italy, Netherlands, Ireland, Sweden, France and Spain.

We are also WELL above many other countries. And, I don't even bother with Sweden. Good grief. A country that rabidly refused to do a lock down. And, the UK waited far too long, and deliberately followed a "herd immunity" strategy until it became apparent that they would do horribly with that strategy. I do not get why we are trying to excuse our numbers. We are "allegedly" the BEST, right? And, yet we are accepting results which are god awful. Out of the 215 countries/areas listed, we are 12th. Great, we are not first. But, being in the top 5.5 % is hardly something to celebrate. Meaning we are WORSE than 94.5%. With more money spent per capita on health care by a long shot. Our numbers should be exceedingly low. Not exceedingly high.
 
We are also WELL above many other countries. And, I don't even bother with Sweden. Good grief. A country that rabidly refused to do a lock down. And, the UK waited far too long, and deliberately followed a "herd immunity" strategy until it became apparent that they would do horribly with that strategy. I do not get why we are trying to excuse our numbers. We are "allegedly" the BEST, right? And, yet we are accepting results which are god awful.
You have a valid point that we're worse in the numbers game than other countries, they have a valid point that we're better in the numbers game than other countries. You may a statement of "Our death rate surpasses that of every other advanced nation." They provided a counterpoint to your assertation. I don't think that means the go-to comeback is the person is excusing their numbers. They were responding to your comment. And even if one doesn't like a country's approach or others in the UK does not mean they can't be used for comparison's sake.

I read an interesting story that the death rate supposedly could have been 36,000 less in the U.S. had we locked down generally speaking about a week earlier (I think it may have varied a teensy bit between states). That to me is quite sobering the idea that it was just that darn close :(
 
I have followed this thread from the beginning. I never posted my answer but secretly thought it would be mid-August. I am sad to say I was wrong. My heart breaks for all these lives lost.

Like everyone else, I always hoped it wouldn't happen, or it would take much longer. I always enjoy reading posts like yours that are a bit sweeter, even though the math was telling me the end of May.

The Governor of Kentucky has done a good job of not hiding the news from the public, from what I can tell. Not like in Georgia where they tried to fob off that faked graph. Shameful behavior.
 
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