What's a pet owner to do? Rant about kickbacks to vets and breeders

[Deb in IA]

We got a new Labrador puppy last weekend. He's great, and we love him to pieces!

I've seen several recent threads here, including one that I started about various dog foods, supplements, etc that are supposedly "recommended" by veteranians, breeders, etc, -- just to find out that they are getting PAID to promote these products!

For example, our vet recommends Science Diet. I found out that it is a low rated dog food, full of grains and fillers, and that they pay vets to recommend them.

Then our breeder tells us to use NuVet vitamin supplements, even saying that the "health guarantee is dependent on continuing NuVet". Now, when you order it, you have to give an "order code" that identifies the breeder, so that they can get their reimbursement.

This is all very disheartnening.

Is there ANYONE who gives HONEST recommendations for your pets WITHOUT being paid off????

 

[Aimeedyan]

It's frustrating, I know. I have found that seeing a holistic vet has helped me a lot with that - at least in the food/medication/vaccination world. Since she doesn't race to drug my animal or give them unnecessary vaccinations each time we're in, she doesn't seem to get as many kickbacks as one that does. She DOES sell a food in her office (a good food, btw), and she probably does get something for it but her response to me was that she found that dog owners thought good food = high price so she decided to carry a low cost good food so there would be no excuse for a dog owner to not feed it. Now, she may just be telling me stories but I don't feed that particular brand and she's never even suggested I change.

I think of it like people doctors - they run into similar things with pharmaceutical companies. It must just be part of the business *shrug*

Find a vet, at least, that will take your concerns seriously and respect your desires as an educated owner. Even when I saw a traditional good ol' boy vet, he was respectful of my opinions and never bullied me into anything.

If you haven't found it yet, look at www.critteradvocacy.org for the latest protocols on vaccinations.

 

[princess momma]

The breeder we got our dog from recommended Iams, which is available pretty much everywhere. It's not overly cheap or overly expensive, so that's what I went with. I honestly don't know how it's rated. The vet asked me what we're feeding him and said that was fine.

I do have to say I was a little disgusted by the breeder. She told me she'd included all his paperwork when we brought him home. Well, it didn't include proof of his vaccinations, just a piece of paper she had filled out that said he's had them. She ignored all attempts I made to get in touch with her. It seemed like once she'd cashed my check she was done with me. I eventually got the proper documentation from the vet but it was a huge pain.

It makes me wonder if there's somewhere to rate vets and breeders.

 

[jrmasm]

I'm picking up and a puppy tomorrow. I already know that I will not be feeding the same food as the breeder after a transition period. Not a big deal to me. People have different opinions.

But this:

Then our breeder tells us to use NuVet vitamin supplements, even saying that the "health guarantee is dependent on continuing NuVet".

That would not fly with me. When did you find out about that crazy stipulation?

 

[Jynohn]

Unfortunately, vets don't spend much time in medical school learning about nutrition. So they listen to the sales reps, and often do get "incentives" for recommending a certain brand of food. I don't think it's necessarily deliberate, many of them just honestly don't know better, as it's not a main focus in school.

As for breeders, a lot of the DO do the research, and are familiar with their lines and the brands of food that their dogs have done well on. Many dogfood companies will offer free food coupons, etc. to breeders, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the breeder is only recommending the food BECAUSE of the offer. They might have really done their research and like the food, and there's no harm in them taking advantage of "perks" the companies may give them, as long as it's a brand that they would normally use and recommend anyway.

That said, it's important to take into consideration your vet/breeder's recommendations, but also do your own research and make a decision based on that.

 

[Aimeedyan]

The breeder we got our dog from recommended Iams, which is available pretty much everywhere. It's not overly cheap or overly expensive, so that's what I went with. I honestly don't know how it's rated. The vet asked me what we're feeding him and said that was fine.

I do have to say I was a little disgusted by the breeder. She told me she'd included all his paperwork when we brought him home. Well, it didn't include proof of his vaccinations, just a piece of paper she had filled out that said he's had them. She ignored all attempts I made to get in touch with her. It seemed like once she'd cashed my check she was done with me. I eventually got the proper documentation from the vet but it was a huge pain.

It makes me wonder if there's somewhere to rate vets and breeders.

As far as breeders, there are things you can do to research them ahead of time. Sadly our laws are so loose when it comes to breeders that there isn't much check and balance system (thus the horrid puppy mills that are still legal, the millions of dogs put to sleep each year thanks to backyard breeders and mills). It's a sad industry.

Iams is pretty low quality, and fairly overpriced for what it is. You can do a lot better for less money if you're interested in changing over. www.dogaware.com and http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/ are both helpful. Most of the Iams formulas are 1 star. PM me if you'd like some other affordable suggestions.

 

[Targsmom]

Is there ANYONE who gives HONEST recommendations for your pets WITHOUT being paid off????

Yeah, me.


I'm not a breeder or vet, but I have attended a lot of seminars on dog food and health etc.

Here is the thing: Every dog thrives different things. The best you can do is choose the best quality food for what you can afford and pay attention to your dog.

Your best indicators? Fur, skin, energy level and (gasp) poop.

I can give you a few books to start reading and also check out http://dogfoodproject.com

Books: Subscribe to the Whole Dog Journal
go to the library and pick up "The Holistic Guide for a Healthy Dog". Also Dr. Pitcairns book.

Get blood work done every year: (check out the Holistic Guide on how to read bloodwork)

Get Titers instead of vaccinations. You don't need them every year.

If you want more info let me know. I've been meaning to blog about dog food for a while. Personally, I'm a raw feeder but I know that freaks out a lot of people.

The best thing you can do is educate yourself.

 

[Targsmom]

Unfortunately, vets don't spend much time in medical school learning about nutrition. So they listen to the sales reps, and often do get "incentives" for recommending a certain brand of food. I don't think it's necessarily deliberate, many of them just honestly don't know better, as it's not a main focus in school.

As for breeders, a lot of the DO do the research, and are familiar with their lines and the brands of food that their dogs have done well on. Many dogfood companies will offer free food coupons, etc. to breeders, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the breeder is only recommending the food BECAUSE of the offer. They might have really done their research and like the food, and there's no harm in them taking advantage of "perks" the companies may give them, as long as it's a brand that they would normally use and recommend anyway.

That said, it's important to take into consideration your vet/breeder's recommendations, but also do your own research and make a decision based on that.

I agree.. with one caveat. *RESPONSIBLE* breeders know their stuff.

 

[Pakey]

Anyone can be a breeder. There are thousands of puppy mill breeders out there. I did a great deal of research/interviews on breeders before I found one that I knew was in it for the right reasons (as opposed to $$$).

My vet recommended chicken/rice instead of any dog food so I hope he isn't getting any kickbacks from Foster Farms.

 

[Deb in IA]

That would not fly with me. When did you find out about that crazy stipulation?

When we went to pick up the puppy, as she was going over his paperwork and pedigree.


I didn't have to sign anything, but it was in a letter that was included in the packet. I have a feeling the letter was just a template that is put out by the NuVet company, and they just slapped the breeder's logo on the top.

 

[teacups]

As a former breeder of labs (I still own my wonderful 10 year old black lab and now have his grandduaghter, a yellow lab who's 6 months old) I always used to tell buyers that Eukanuba was THE BEST. My dogs have never been sick. You heard me right.. never been sick! (Except for the time he picked all the plums off the tree) BUT... then they changed their formula and he wasnt too excited about it any longer. I swithced to a local organic brand... and he became a gas bag! But what I was going to tell you... I never got a kickback, and did not base my health guarantee on it, but I did base it on keeping the dog at a healthy weight. With labs too much weight is really bad. Try a lamb and rice food. You bought the dog knowing about this health guarantee/food issue I assume and I wonder why you bought the dog under those conditions? I agree. It's not right. (And I also agree that science diet sucks!) Best advice: read the ingredients label and compare.

 

[princess momma]

As far as breeders, there are things you can do to research them ahead of time. Sadly our laws are so loose when it comes to breeders that there isn't much check and balance system (thus the horrid puppy mills that are still legal, the millions of dogs put to sleep each year thanks to backyard breeders and mills). It's a sad industry.

Iams is pretty low quality, and fairly overpriced for what it is. You can do a lot better for less money if you're interested in changing over. www.dogaware.com and http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/ are both helpful. Most of the Iams formulas are 1 star. PM me if you'd like some other affordable suggestions.

Honestly, I thought I did try to research breeders. I spent hours and hours on the internet and really got nowhere. I guess I should have come here. We have various allergies here, so I needed to get a "hypoallergenic" dog. It was not easy to find one. I saw lots and lots of great reviews for the breeder and thought she must be great. But really it was her flickr account that I saw all the positive comments on. I'm sure she just deleted anything less than glowing.

I love this dog so much, though. I can't imagine doing things differently now. He is the sweetest thing ever.

Thanks for the info on the dog food. I'll definitely have to transition him to something better.

 

[hlane]

We got an English Bulldog puppy 2 months ago. The breeder and the vet both recommended very low quality foods (don't remember which ones now). After plenty of research I feed her Orijen brand and she's doing great on it! It is rather expensive but so was she so I want to provide her the best I can find. Good Luck on finding the best food for your puppy!

 

[jrmasm]

When we went to pick up the puppy, as she was going over his paperwork and pedigree.


I didn't have to sign anything, but it was in a letter that was included in the packet. I have a feeling the letter was just a template that is put out by the NuVet company, and they just slapped the breeder's logo on the top.

That's really crappy. Wonder if it would stand up to a legal challenge....I doubt it. Hopefully you have no need to find out.

 

[apirateslifeforme]

I can't speak for our vet when it comes to other owners, but I can't see how he's getting a kickback when it comes to us. Tara has a "delicate stomach," so the vet recommended boiled chicken, ground beef, brown rice, and carrots (with a Tbsp. of cottage cheese to bind). She's been eating that for 15 years without ANY issues!

And when it came to her allergies, he called around the different pharmacies for us, to determine the lowest cost for her meds. Maybe he gets a kickback for that, who knows...But he's been wonderful and seems to genuinely care for her and the other animals in his care.

 

[Deb in IA]

You bought the dog knowing about this health guarantee/food issue I assume and I wonder why you bought the dog under those conditions?

We were not told anything of this part of the "health guarantee" until we had already written the check and she was going over his paperwork and pedigree. It was all the packet we took home. She said she wanted him to be on this, to call them and order it, using her code. It was only after I read the letter that I saw that the part about the health guarantee.

We had a Lab previously, and are pretty experienced with the breed. Our last Lab, a wonderful black named Lewie, passed away last year from Canine Bloat at the age of 11. We miss him a lot, but are now ready for another four-legged member of the family.

 

[teacups]

We were not told anything of this part of the "health guarantee" until we had already written the check and she was going over his paperwork and pedigree. It was all the packet we took home. She said she wanted him to be on this, to call them and order it, using her code. It was only after I read the letter that I saw that the part about the health guarantee.

Well that's just not right.
If she felt good about what she was doing, she would have told you up front.

Did this pups parents have thier hips and eyes checked? Did you see the paperwork? What were the parents rated?

 

[Targsmom]

I can't speak for our vet when it comes to other owners, but I can't see how he's getting a kickback when it comes to us. Tara has a "delicate stomach," so the vet recommended boiled chicken, ground beef, brown rice, and carrots (with a Tbsp. of cottage cheese to bind). She's been eating that for 15 years without ANY issues!

And when it came to her allergies, he called around the different pharmacies for us, to determine the lowest cost for her meds. Maybe he gets a kickback for that, who knows...But he's been wonderful and seems to genuinely care for her and the other animals in his care.

you have a great vet! others are not so great. Our vets office is awesome with one exception. She basically called me a stupid woman who was damaging my dog for life.

we don't see her at all anymore. Says so on our chart.

 

[Deb in IA]

OFA'd for hips and elbows for the mom, hips for the dad. Both CERF'd. Can't remember the details and the papers are at home.

Also got DNA analysis for the dad.

 

[Disney Doll]

We fed Ted California Natural, which I see by the list is a 4 star food. He did very well on it. He was allergic to wheat, so we had to go with something wheat free.