What I find is missed by "Disney is a business"

[sethschroeder]

Pete put it out there again today about changes being "good" or "bad" based on being financially successful.

Good business from a consumer point of view gives a product that surpasses the cost of the product.

Yes you can explain why Disney does something by stating "they are a business" but that does not make it a correct or proper move. This also applies to companies like Nintendo, Apple, and others.

 

[raidermatt]

Exactly. Further, Disney has been a publicly traded company since 1957. Using their status as a public company to justify changes ignores the fact they have been public for 64 years.

 

[fumanchu2488]

Both these posts miss the point Pete was making IMO. The current atmosphere and spending habits by the consumer is what is allowing Disney to do these price hikes. COVID was a convenient vehicle to implement these changes in warp speed. Also, comparing consumer spending from 1955 or 1971 to now is not responsible.

I think one of the things that stuck out to me from what Pete said, and I totally agree with, is that pre COVID everyone complained about crowds. There aren’t many ways for them to limit or lower crowds and pricing is probably there most effective strategy. When Pete mentioned his conversation with the head of DL and he said that “they weren’t going to be trying to slam as many people into the place as possible anymore” it really made things clear. It seemed like their goal pre COVID was as many people as possible. Now I can see a transition to less people, more expensive, better experience.

I also don’t agree with the notion that this will price the average American family out completely. I think it could, but what it probably does is modify the vacation. It makes a 7 day trip a 4 day trip at the same or similar price. Some people won’t come, but those that do will spend a lot more money.

 

[fumanchu2488]

I guess my point is, the goal of a business is to make money. If Consumer demand and there projections show that these price increases will make the company more money then this is a “good” business decision.

 

[sethschroeder]

The current atmosphere and spending habits by the consumer is what is allowing Disney to do these price hikes.

Except my point is good companies still over deliver it doesn't matter if they can just charge more.

I completely get Pete's point and it completely makes sense. I just don't fully agree Disney should be doing it.

I guess my point is, the goal of a business is to make money. If Consumer demand and there projections show that these price increases will make the company more money then this is a “good” business decision.

You are 100% correct but my point is the best businesses don't always do the best bottom line business decision.

That's the thing you can be completely correct but I find the business choice wrong.

I wouldn't work where I work if I felt they did business this way especially to long term customers

 

[fumanchu2488]

Except my point is good companies still over deliver it doesn't matter if they can just charge more.

I completely get Pete's point and it completely makes sense. I just don't fully agree Disney should be doing it.



You are 100% correct but my point is the best businesses don't always do the best bottom line business decision.

That's the thing you can be completely correct but I find the business choice wrong.

I wouldn't work where I work if I felt they did business this way especially to long term customers

Another point Pete made that speaks to this is that we all have our unique opinions and get to “vote” with our money. There are a lot of people that are in your boat and may stop going to Disney because they think they are making bad decisions and will not support them. Then there are a lot of people that are still going to pay the mouse. And until a lot more of their customers start leaning in your direction this is going to continue for a while. Time will tell when we get to that tipping point. This isn’t it yet for me as I still see this as a good decision for Disney and as a DVC member I am a bit protected from these increases. However, if my week long vacation with DVC starts costing me $5k or $6k for a family of 4 with hotel room already paid, you can count me out.

 

[Jennasis]

If Disney is making money, then it is a good move (for them).

 

[DLgal]

If Disney is making money, then it is a good move (for them).

It really is as simple as this. The rest of it is bringing emotions into the picture which isn't how most businesses operate. They are charging what the market will bear RIGHT NOW. If the market decides the parks and resorts aren't a good value, they will see lower and lowe attendance and booking numbers to reflect consumer sentiment, and will then have to adjust their pricing structure going forward. But as long as they are meeting their internal goals, financially, the rest doesn't really matter to them. Tney will continue to push their "customer service/pixie dust/magic" narrative regardless.

On the topic of annual passes, specifically at Disneyland, I am one of those people who agree that they were TOO CHEAP before and that was the root of the crowding problem. I really hope to see the new membership program cost enough to discourage the people who were paying $30/month on a so cal select annual pass with financing. That needs to not be an option anymore. Disneyland is not a community park, and it needs to have a pricing structure that makes it more than a YMCA membership (currently $49/month for an individual in Orange County).

 

[DL1WDW2]

It really is as simple as this.
Disneyland is not a community park, and it needs to have a pricing structure that makes it more than a YMCA membership (currently $49/month for an individual in Orange County).

Good point. Treating Disneyland like it is the local hangout mall seems disrespectful …. Probably going to create problems with Downtown Disney and Disney Springs …as someplace for the locals to go…
DL you don’t get Free Parking (?) and the monorail requires ticketing because it has a direct access to entry via Tomorrowland . WDW offers every type of adventure to transport you without cost ( Free Disney Springs parking, bus, monorail and lots of different water transport and SkyLiner) . Once upon a time a Family Vacation was once a year or once in a lifetime. And many never took a big week long vacation.
Maybe a holiday weekend splurge…

It is a painful process as we all learn to adapt
Maybe Mr. Chapek knows what he is doing…I hate it but walking thru the parking lot past those empty shuttle trams is probably good exercise the average consumer (me) needs is in my thoughts… Justwish the sun wasn’t blazing hot.

Anyway thanks for topic and reminder to listen to the recent podcast.
I have only listened to a few but they are interesting .

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

If Disney is making money, then it is a good move (for them).

Short term, definitely. Long term, maybe.

There is a trend when trying to satisfy Wall Street to sacrifice long term profits for short term profits. Sacrificing the quality of the product due to low levels of staffing, deferred maintenance, and lack of capital investment might deliver a good quarter but it also reduces the number of people returning along with opening the door for competitors.

 

[disneyland_is_magic]

Pete spoke with the president of DL over a policy complaint, he stayed concierge at the GC and had a VIP tour.

Pete doesn’t visit the same Disney we visit. Good for him. But debating what he said or experienced is a big fruit bowl of apples and oranges.

Now we should discuss the changes and so should Pete, yes, but I don’t expect to see Disney the way Pete does or vice versa.

 

[kbelle8995]

My only issue is the statement that a park reservation helps keep crowds down. That really depends on the park. I've been to Hollywood Studios twice and it always incredibly busy with long lines for everything. Last time it took me an hour to just shop in the Star Wars market. But rides like Slinky, Mickey and Minnie Railroad and Smuggler's run have long, long lines and there are so many people in the park. I think the lack of shows and entertainment didn't help either.

Also I reached my tipping point with Disney hotels and am staying over at Universal hotels or waiting for a deal at the Swan and Dolphin

 

[DLgal]

Also I reached my tipping point with Disney hotels and am staying over at Universal hotels or waiting for a deal at the Swan and Dolphin

Agree. I am staying in a family suite at Cabana Bay in late August for under $200/night. That hotel is better (IMO) than some of Disney's Deluxe resorts. There is NO reason for Disney's disgustingly inflated hotel rates. I could have booked Portofino Bay for $315/night including express passes. And those are publicly available rates, too!

 

[DL1WDW2]

Cabana Bay Resort at Universall Studios is the resort you wish POP Century was.
Visit for the holidays… that enormous lobby with Swizzles Bar is filled with those aluminum Christmas trees that sparkle to the skylight above!
And bowling alley with Jack Lalllane Fitness Guru from the 50s , upstairs and fun arcade !!! And double sided fire pits to roast marshmallows late into the night …

 

[DLgal]

Cabana Bay Resort at Universall Studios is the resort you wish POP Century was.
Visit for the holidays… that enormous lobby with Swizzles Bar is filled with those aluminum Christmas trees that sparkle to the skylight above!
And bowling alley withJack Lallane Gym upstairs and fun arcade !!! And double sided fire pits to roast marshmallows late into the night …

Equating it to a Disney value resort isn't really fair. It has the amenities of most Disney Deluxe resorts: full service (HUGE) fitness center, hot tubs at the pools, 3 separate pools with a slide AND a lazy river ( a real one, not like the tiny one at Beach Club), rooms with interior hallway entry, rooms that sleep 6, a full service restaurant (Galaxy Bowl) and several full service bars, ability to walk to ALL parks, private entrance into the water park, a BOWLING ALLEY, and a cohesive theme. It exceeds many of Disney's Deluxe resorts in amenities alone.

 

[raidermatt]

It really is as simple as this. The rest of it is bringing emotions into the picture which isn't how most businesses operate. They are charging what the market will bear RIGHT NOW. If the market decides the parks and resorts aren't a good value, they will see lower and lowe attendance and booking numbers to reflect consumer sentiment, and will then have to adjust their pricing structure going forward. But as long as they are meeting their internal goals, financially, the rest doesn't really matter to them. Tney will continue to push their "customer service/pixie dust/magic" narrative regardless.

But it is not at all that simple. This viewpoint ignores consumer behavior. Once a company "loses" a customer it is usually not just a matter of flipping a switch to get them back. And in this case it is very risky to make decisions with potentially long term ramifications in an environment heavily influenced by short term factors. It does seem everyone is more than willing to handover their wallets after being cooped up for over a year. But there is no reason to think this is a sudden permanent change to consumer behavior.

Further, it is entirely possible some of these decisions will have unintended consequences. We have seen this happen before. ALL on site guests have lost Magical Express, which had great value for many. Now, in an effort to encourage deluxe stays Disney has taken away evening extra hours from Value/Moderates. This could easily backfire by pushing Value/Moderate guests off site rather than into Deluxe stays. Just one of many examples.

 

[disneyland_is_magic]

I wish people would stop saying it's a forgone conclusion we are going to keep giving Disney our money. I am a loyal Disney fan and love DL, but I have never been to WDW.

We have saved up to go to WDW so the budget is ready, my non-Disney travel companion is also on board. We are planning it as a "one and done" for both of it. Maybe I will fall in love, maybe once will be enough and I will have fond memories and say, I am glad I saw it once.

But holy crap, I can't bring myself to pull the trigger, these packages just sit in my cart on Disney's website. Yes, I know I sound crazy to some of you. But I think there is a strong portion of fans, who find themselves on the fence. I don't even think it's a money issue (well, money is always an issue), I am worried the EXPERIENCE won't be there because of all the cut this year.

And yes, I have first world problems. I have real problems too, hence why vacations are so important.

 

[raidermatt]

Couple of asides:

"Speaking with your wallet". Clearly this is the ultimate way to make your opinion known to Disney. But the fact that one still forks over money does not negate the importance of a negative opinion. The best time to consider customer opinions is while they are still a customer. Once they are gone, good luck getting them back. That said, I fully acknowledge the difference between criticizing a decision simply because it will cost you more money vs. criticizing a decision based on its overall financial merits.

And I fully agree on Pete's shifting perspective.

 

[raidermatt]

I think one of the things that stuck out to me from what Pete said, and I totally agree with, is that pre COVID everyone complained about crowds. There aren’t many ways for them to limit or lower crowds and pricing is probably there most effective strategy.

Isn't this similar to the "if people didn't like price increases they wouldn't pay" argument? If everyone was complaining about crowds, wouldn't they have stopped going? And if they continued to go, just as they continued to pay, doesn't that negate their right to complain about it?

I am being more than a tad facetious, but the point holds. ALL issues raised by customers are valid discussions and should not be dismissed.

And along the issue of crowds, there are other ways to disperse crowds, namely through increased capacity. And in the past Disney did this by having plentiful A-C tickets. The D's and E's sold the tickets, and the ABC's keep the guests happy once they were there. But in recent years new lands have been opened without the supporting "lower" level attractions, at least not in the appropriate ratio. So the crowds flock to ride Rise of the Resistance and Flight of Passage, but there isn't enough being added to keep them occupied while they wait. So the pre-existing attractions and other guest areas become more crowded. So sure, as of today, raising prices is the fastest way to address this issue. But long term, having appropriate capacity is likely more effective and in this case Disney has dropped that ball by not reacting to those customer complaints for years.

 

[yorkieteacher]

<edit>


I was involved in a lengthy discussion on these boards previously about lack of housekeeping. I am glad Pete at least agreed with me (and most others who commented) that Disney resorts need to step up their game asap with this issue. I will add that when I took the time to stop by the front desk and say our garbage was overflowing it was taken care of. But I was really mad that at Yacht Club for 7 nights and our sheets were never changed/beds never made (except by us!) .