What’s Up with Reedy Creek Vote on Monday?

[Lesverts]

I don't understand why anyone would invest in Disney, go to Disney, spend their money at Disney if they find their business practices to be unfair, who feel they are operating in a do harm manner and are so negative against them. There are plenty of businesses that I feel are operating in a negative way so you know what I do ............ drive right by them and do business with their competitors. If you don't speak with your money then you ............

Sadly there is such a lack of understanding of why the RCID was developed, what the documentation says, how it all works and all the benefits it brings and how few negatives there are ....... at all levels from spectators to government people. Lots of spinning - so little facts.



Disney is a business, they do not have bonds.

Reedy Creek is a special district much like the other 1800 districts, similar to a small town or village. Government entities have the ability to get bonds for their infrastructure. There is nothing unusual about that and Disney isn't getting anything special.

So there is nothing Disney is getting that is unfair.



I'm not sure I understand this bolded ... Disney currently pays massive property taxes and pays all their sales taxes and state business taxes.

But I agree, they can not be forced to pay any more than any other business pays.

BUT what RCID does do is pay tons of extra money for the infrastructure that normally the counties would pay. So Disney actually could is save money by making OrangeOsceola County pay for all the infrastructure. But that infrastructure the counties would pay for will end up much lesser quality that Reedy Creek now provides.

I meant that if the District went away. Disney would be Universal. Pay the taxes that everyone else pays but that is all. Someone else would have to issue the bonds, spend the money and raise the capital to fund the services of the district. Disney would be just like everyone else. Instead of being the one to foot the bill for all the extras.

A homeowner or business pays their taxes and those taxes get used to provide the services that the state and county provide. Disney pays those taxes and has a District that they also fund (and raise bonds for) that provide those services that the property taxes would normal fund.

 

[TheMouseKId]

Man I can’t wait for the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District!

 

[wkrainey]

This reads a lot like someone in accounting gave Florida the real numbers and let them know the costs involved with trying to dissolve Reedy Creek and the budget requirements that will be forced upon the local governments if they go ahead with the move. The costs to run the fire and emergency services at Disney alone would make dissolving Reedy Creek unappealing. Then you add in road maintenance and utilities and it's going to be a nightmare. Disney holds the leverage in this.

 

[Takket]

I don't understand how what is being proposed is even remotely legal. The state can abide by its agreement and let Disney incur costs and hold control, or the state can treat it like any other municipality where taxpayers absorb the cost of the infrastructure... but the State calling the shots AND making Disney eat the costs smacks of "taxation without representation" (I know that's not a legal term, just throwing it out since I don't know what actual law applies here lol).

If this bill passes, Disney will immediately sue, a Stay will be granted, and this will be tied up in court for years. So I wouldn't expect and changes anytime soon.

 

[hildarumpole]

I don't understand how what is being proposed is even remotely legal. The state can abide by its agreement and let Disney incur costs and hold control, or the state can treat it like any other municipality where taxpayers absorb the cost of the infrastructure... but the State calling the shots AND making Disney eat the costs smacks of "taxation without representation" (I know that's not a legal term, just throwing it out since I don't know what actual law applies here lol).

If this bill passes, Disney will immediately sue, a Stay will be granted, and this will be tied up in court for years. So I wouldn't expect and changes anytime soon.

Disney's reputation has taken a beating over the past year. Their prosperity depends on public goodwill. Do they really want to take on another battle, especially since they've enjoyed uniquely advantageous privileges over every other theme park in the state for decades?

 

[ofcabbagesandkings]

Their "privileges" are just in the form of footing the bill for services that the state and municipalities in Florida can hardly afford, in no small part because they don't have a state income tax. There is a reason people call WDW staying inside a bubble and it's not just the theming. Maintaining roads and services not just to decent standards, but to Disney standards, costs money. With this new bill, DeSantis is trying to have it both ways, maintain government control of the district, but make Disney pay for all of the services that the state/county should be paying. That's not going to work. And the logic of kicking people off the board after 3 terms makes even less sense - why rotate folks through a job that requires deep knowledge of projects in progress, administration details, etc?

 

[BrianL]

Their "privileges" are just in the form of footing the bill for services that the state and municipalities in Florida can hardly afford, in no small part because they don't have a state income tax. There is a reason people call WDW staying inside a bubble and it's not just the theming. Maintaining roads and services not just to decent standards, but to Disney standards, costs money. With this new bill, DeSantis is trying to have it both ways, maintain government control of the district, but make Disney pay for all of the services that the state/county should be paying. That's not going to work. And the logic of kicking people off the board after 3 terms makes even less sense - why rotate folks through a job that requires deep knowledge of projects in progress, administration details, etc?

Yeah, that's the thing I don't get. Everyone talks about all the special priveliges and benefits that Disney gets, but what about what they give back? They maintain all of those roads, which are public for anyone to pass on, and they are generally impeccable. They provide FREE ambulance transport if needed (even if they don't fund RCFD enough). They build solar farms, handle water retention and re-use, etc. I mean, sure, they enjoy a bit of freedom, but they have been generally excellent stewards of the land too.

 

[tjkraz]

I meant that if the District went away. Disney would be Universal. Pay the taxes that everyone else pays but that is all.

Except they won't be Universal because Universal has a say in choosing those who govern. DeSantis wants to take that right away from Disney. The new legislation proposes that the governor alone choose who oversees this new tourism district. Oh, and it can't be anyone who has worked for or contracted with Disney in the last 3 years. (Because why would you want to put anyone on the board who actually knows something about those 27,000 acres?)

Disney has always "paid the taxes that everyone pays." They contribute to schools, libraries and other public services at the same millage rates as other landowners in the impacted counties. In 2021, Disney was taxed nearly $20 million which went to the school systems and another $12 million by Orange County. That's in addition to monies paid for all city services (roads, emergency, sewage, trash collection, etc) which are managed by the district.

Look, I'm not saying that Disney doesn't deserve additional oversight. But this has been an absolute cluster from Florida lawmakers. They originally committed to--and passed legislation to--"dissolve the district", only to be informed by others that dissolving the district would shift billions of dollars of debt to taxpayers. So they sidestepped to a takeover of RCID, doubling-down by claiming "nothing changed, this has been the plan all along, people who say taxpayers will be hurt are just trying to scare everyone".

Now the current proposal amounts to what another poster described as taxation without representation. Disney has a lot of grounds to fight this...if they choose to do so. I don't think public image concerns will dissuade them. Disney doesn't need absolute power. They don't need the rights to build airports and nuclear power plants. But they'd be foolish to cede all authority to the state. How quickly this is resolved probably depends on how reasonable Florida lawmakers wish to be. DeSanits may be content keeping this in limbo at least through the 2024 presidential elections. Several legal experts believe he's holding a losing hand...he just doesn't want to show his cards until it no longer matters politically.

 

[Mikey15]

^^

Dissolving the district would be one thing. Keeping $DIS on the hook for the stranded debt instead of the counties would be one thing. Now the draft legislation wants the governor alone to appoint directors, and for them to have to be outsiders (read: allies of the governor). This new legislation is arguably worse than what was passed last year.

Would this not give the governor-installed board full control over what the "CFTOD" charges Disney for road maintenance and other services? And how & which roads, etc. are approved & funded? That would actually put Disney worse-off than Comcast/Universal in the sense that they're being singled-out for state oversight, rather than treated as any other Orange (or Osceola) County landowner.

 

[BrianL]

^^

Dissolving the district would be one thing. Keeping $DIS on the hook for the stranded debt instead of the counties would be one thing. Now the draft legislation wants the governor alone to appoint directors, and for them to have to be outsiders (read: allies of the governor). This new legislation is arguably worse than what was passed last year.

Would this not give the governor-installed board full control over what the "CFTOD" charges Disney for road maintenance and other services? And how & which roads, etc. are approved & funded? That would actually put Disney worse-off than Comcast/Universal in the sense that they're being singled-out for state oversight, rather than treated as any other Orange (or Osceola) County landowner.

Yeah, I really just don't see that part flying. It gives the governer too much power. That's going to get tied up in court - probably long enough for it not to matter.

 

[Mikey15]

Yeah, I really just don't see that part flying. It gives the governer too much power. That's going to get tied up in court - probably long enough for it not to matter.

I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if the legislature rubber-stamps it (I don't want to get this locked or worse by expounding further), but it appears there's certainly legal ground that this would get bogged-down if it does:

Unless of course the bill as drafted is intended to be shot down, and for the pending dissolution to seem not so bad in comparison?

 

[BrianL]

I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if the legislature rubber-stamps it (I don't want to get this locked or worse by expounding further), but it appears there's certainly legal ground that this would get bogged-down if it does:

Unless of course the bill as drafted is intended to be shot down, and for the pending dissolution to seem not so bad in comparison?

Or, you know, if it gets shot down in court, he can at least say he tried to battle the big, bad corporation, but the courts just wouldn't let him.