WAY TO Early Riviera Price per Point Guesstimate

[deerh]

There is no gondola stop at any of the EPCOT resorts. I very seriously doubt that those resorts will make any contribution whatsoever to the operation or maintenance of that system. The EPCOT resorts help to pay for the bus & boat transportation that actually serves those resorts.

That's more of what I thought. Did not think that BWV/Beach/YC would pay for security at the "back entrance" to Epcot with the new "Skyliner". I would imagine if it did, there would be a LOT of upset DVC owners.....

 

[Bing Showei]

There is no gondola stop at any of the EPCOT resorts. I very seriously doubt that those resorts will make any contribution whatsoever to the operation or maintenance of that system. The EPCOT resorts help to pay for the bus & boat transportation that actually serves those resorts.

The Skyliner EPCOT station is closer to every EPCOT resort than the IG. So if you consider the IG as an access point to EPCOT, you can be sure Disney will view the Skyliner as an access point to DHS. Not unlike the monorail to the MK resorts.

I imagine Disney rationalizing this in several ways. One, EPCOT resorts guests will undoubtedly be using the Skyliner to access DHS. Two, the Skyliner will be billed as an “experience” and a new “magical way to view WDW.” Three, it’s easier to spread the cost of maintenance of a new transportation system across three DVCs (and a deluxe, moderate, and two values), than to burden the maintenance fees of your brand spankin’ new DVC that you’ll be looking to sell at a “bargain price of less-than-everything-else-if-you-factor-in-the-RTU-years.”

While I’m not a fan of this line of thinking, I can see the rationale. And given early indications that the Skyliner will be within the park security bubble, the same bubble shared by the IG, you can be sure those increased costs will be absorbed by the EPCOT resorts because... well, DVD needs to move themselves some Riviera.

 

[CarolMN]

The Skyliner EPCOT station is closer to every EPCOT resort than the IG. So if you consider the IG as an access point to EPCOT, you can be sure Disney will view the Skyliner as an access point to DHS. Not unlike the monorail to the MK resorts.

I imagine Disney rationalizing this in several ways. One, EPCOT resorts guests will undoubtedly be using the Skyliner to access DHS. Two, the Skyliner will be billed as an “experience” and a new “magical way to view WDW.” Three, it’s easier to spread the cost of maintenance of a new transportation system across three DVCs (and a deluxe, moderate, and two values), than to burden the maintenance fees of your brand spankin’ new DVC that you’ll be looking to sell at a “bargain price of less-than-everything-else-if-you-factor-in-the-RTU-years.”

While I’m not a fan of this line of thinking, I can see the rationale. And given early indications that the Skyliner will be within the park security bubble, the same bubble shared by the IG, you can be sure those increased costs will be absorbed by the EPCOT resorts because... well, DVD needs to move themselves some Riviera.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I do not think that line of thinking is rational at all and if adopted would border on fraud. Obviously, it's not a means of transportation to get to EPCOT from the EPCOT resorts. The EPCOT station will be about a 15-20 minute walk from the BWV lobby, maybe longer if it is inside of the "security bubble". Depending on the location of your room at the BWV, it would be shorter to just walk directly to DHS. Good luck justifying how it makes sense for guests to walk all the way to EPCOT to get to DHS, especially if they are travelling with strollers, wheelchairs or ECVs, when buses & boats are about 5 minutes from the BWV Lobby.

As for the "experience", the EPCOT resorts do not contribute to the operating costs of the monorail. IMO, there is very little difference between riding monorail for the "experience" and riding the gondola for the "experience". Neither is a practical way to get to a park from the EPCOT resorts.

Again, we can just agree to disagree.

 

[Bing Showei]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I do not think that line of thinking is rational at all and if adopted would border on fraud. Obviously, it's not a means of transportation to get to EPCOT from the EPCOT resorts. The EPCOT station will be about a 15-20 minute walk from the BWV lobby, maybe longer if it is inside of the "security bubble". Depending on the location of your room at the BWV, it would be shorter to just walk directly to DHS. Good luck justifying how it makes sense for guests to walk all the way to EPCOT to get to DHS, especially if they are travelling with strollers, wheelchairs or ECVs, when buses & boats are about 5 minutes from the BWV Lobby.

As for the "experience", the EPCOT resorts do not contribute to the operating costs of the monorail. IMO, there is very little difference between riding monorail for the "experience" and riding the gondola for the "experience". Neither is a practical way to get to a park from the EPCOT resorts.

Again, we can just agree to disagree.

I’m not sure we disagree much, to be honest.

I’m in no way suggesting BWV/BC owners asked for this. In fact, I would argue most don’t even want this nonsense or the havoc it will reign upon their cherished IG. What I am saying is that Disney will distribute the costs. And as much as owners will hate it, it would be a viable option for BWV/YC/BC owners to get to DHS, and it would take a fair bit of legal maneuvering to assert such a move as fraud.

There is zero question Disney is selling this as a value-add to the Epcot resorts. That’s my only point. I’m sure you don’t disagree that Disney sees it this way.

 

[CarolMN]

I.......(snip)…......

There is zero question Disney is selling this as a value-add to the Epcot resorts. That’s my only point. I’m sure you don’t disagree that Disney sees it this way.

That's an assumption on your part. I haven't seen anything that would support that yet. We won't really know until the transportation portion of the budgets shows a significant increase. Until then, I choose to believe Disney will allocate costs based on the location of the stations and there aren't any at BCV or BWV.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Different meaning

 

[DenLo]

I know all of the resorts had a 9 - 10% increase in transportation costs for 2019, wdrl is preparing the charts for the DVC News. BWV is at the lower end for the increases. I expect the fact that the bus drivers got a pay increase, and fuel prices keep bouncing around is a factor. I am not sure what else is a would be considered. I do know that the monorail resorts pay more for transportation, but then they have longer bus routes to DS, DHS and DAK besides the cost of the monorail.

 

[deerh]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I do not think that line of thinking is rational at all and if adopted would border on fraud. Obviously, it's not a means of transportation to get to EPCOT from the EPCOT resorts. The EPCOT station will be about a 15-20 minute walk from the BWV lobby, maybe longer if it is inside of the "security bubble". Depending on the location of your room at the BWV, it would be shorter to just walk directly to DHS. Good luck justifying how it makes sense for guests to walk all the way to EPCOT to get to DHS, especially if they are travelling with strollers, wheelchairs or ECVs, when buses & boats are about 5 minutes from the BWV Lobby.

As for the "experience", the EPCOT resorts do not contribute to the operating costs of the monorail. IMO, there is very little difference between riding monorail for the "experience" and riding the gondola for the "experience". Neither is a practical way to get to a park from the EPCOT resorts.

Again, we can just agree to disagree.

My thoughts exactly. WHY on earth would I walk to Epcot to catch the "skyliner" to go to DHS? I could just catch the boat/walk there. I might just "ride" it once, just to see what it was like, and that would be it.. Don't think I would use the "experience" any at all.. NOT looking forward to the crowds it will bring to the BW.. But, we will see...

 

[Mumof4mice]

DVC dues cannot pay for the construction of the Skyliner, but they WILL pay for the operating and maintenance costs. And it seems the Skyliner will be in the security bubble, so the security costs for bag search will be paid with resort dues. Looking at the increase in security costs for BWV this year, probably the boardwalk will be in the security bubble to.
It's not coincidental that a new DVC resort is being built on the new Skyliner, Riviera contracts will pay its construction (I know, they're different Business Units, but part of a big family) and owners will help paying for its upkeep.

That's an assumption on your part. I haven't seen anything that would support that yet. We won't really know until the transportation portion of the budgets shows a significant increase. Until then, I choose to believe Disney will allocate costs based on the location of the stations and there aren't any at BCV or BW

Whether or not Disney intends to spread the skyliner running cost to the Epcot resorts, it's in any company's advantage to bill as much of the construction cost to ongoing repairs and maintenance as possible. Building improvements are generally written down according to a depreciation schedule over 40 years, while repairs and running cost are deductible as expenses.

When the same company owns the land, the building and runs the construction, it's easy. The skyliner will be "completed" soon, after which testing will identify areas that require repairs and fortifications in the first year or two of operations.

Between a large new resort Disney wants to sell, and old resorts that are 10 points a studio, I'm guessing there'd be a favourite child. Good chance the older siblings will be pitching in.

Overall, the gondolas would still be cheaper to operate than buses. If I were an Epcot resort owner, buying there to walk everywhere, I'd be more annoyed about high bus transport costs than a small fraction of the gondola operation costs.

 

[Bing Showei]

I choose to believe Disney will allocate costs based on the location of the stations and there aren't any at BCV or BWV.

Walking from BCV, the Epcot Skyliner station is closer than to the BCV/YC friendship boat dock. Estimated travel times suggest it would be faster to DHS by way of the Skyliner as well. Do you feel Disney will not see the Epcot station as a BWV/BCV station to access DHS? Maybe that’s where we fundamentally disagree.

Your reasoning about walking to DHS from BWV is sound. But that same logic could be applied to BLT relative to MK and the monorail. The presence of a favored travel alternative will not preclude Disney from distributing costs.

Am I assuming? To some degree, sure. I hope I’m wrong. But with a new DVC coming online that directly benefits from the gondola, it would be in Disney’s best interest to spread that cost out. That just makes business sense.

 

[Lumpy1106]

I have a theory; I think they are going to offer points cheap (say $150/point), but make the point table higher - sort of like a stock split. That would discourage the legacy owners from staying there, while making the resale restrictions slightly less prohibitive.

 

[E2ME2]

it will be high so all the new owners ( not just dog owners) can help pay for the dog issues if they allow you to bring your dogs.

Did I miss some info regarding pets at the new resort ??
Is Disney advertising Riviera as Pet-Friendly?
I love pets, but not when they make noise at night, or leave droppings behind, in a hotel/resort where I am vacationing.
& the DW is allergic to pet dander, which makes traveling in pet-friendly rooms a no-go for us.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Did I miss some info regarding pets at the new resort ??
Is Disney advertising Riviera as Pet-Friendly?
I love pets, but not when they make noise at night, or leave droppings behind, in a hotel/resort where I am vacationing.
& the DW is allergic to pet dander, which makes traveling in pet-friendly rooms a no-go for us.

No. No DVC resorts allow dogs except service dogs and nothing has been announced as being different at Riviera. It would be the one they could though.

 

[crvetter]

Did I miss some info regarding pets at the new resort ??
Is Disney advertising Riviera as Pet-Friendly?
I love pets, but not when they make noise at night, or leave droppings behind, in a hotel/resort where I am vacationing.
& the DW is allergic to pet dander, which makes traveling in pet-friendly rooms a no-go for us.

Riviera will not be Pet Friendly as the current draft of the POS I have seen doesn't allow it. It is using the same Rules and Regulations as the other DVC resorts so I suspect it to remain the same as opening.

I have a theory; I think they are going to offer points cheap (say $150/point), but make the point table higher - sort of like a stock split. That would discourage the legacy owners from staying there, while making the resale restrictions slightly less prohibitive.

I had this theory too. But it appears based on the POS obtained that the points for the total resort being declared are in line with BLT when you adjust for Riviera actually being larger.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/m...n-dated-01-19-19.3734585/page-6#post-60275465
https://www.disboards.com/threads/m...n-dated-01-19-19.3734585/page-6#post-60276170

 

[E2ME2]

No. No DVC resorts allow dogs except service dogs and nothing has been announced as being different at Riviera. It would be the one they could though.

Whew !
Thanks - & I didn't realize the post I replied to initially was WAY BACK on this thread.
Thanks again

 

[Ben E N]

I have a theory; I think they are going to offer points cheap (say $150/point), but make the point table higher - sort of like a stock split. That would discourage the legacy owners from staying there, while making the resale restrictions slightly less prohibitive.

But then people would just load up on Riviera points and use them to stay elsewhere. It would lead to an empty resort.
They could want that, as they could then sell more rooms for cash, but there would then be less to sell elsewhere, as well as many unhappy members who would not be able to book anything reasonable.
They may be able to get away with some playing around, maybe 20% more points for 20% less cost, but not a ton more.

 

[E2ME2]

But then people would just load up on Riviera points and use them to stay elsewhere. It would lead to an empty resort.
They could want that, as they could then sell more rooms for cash, but there would then be less to sell elsewhere, as well as many unhappy members who would not be able to book anything reasonable.
They may be able to get away with some playing around, maybe 20% more points for 20% less cost, but not a ton more.

What’s the latest rumor on when Riviera will be open for sales?

 

[Ben E N]

What’s the latest rumor on when Riviera will be open for sales?

I have heard their plan is sometime in March. But I heard that over a month ago, so it may not be in line with any more recent rumors.