Vent... I don't understand how people do it!

[rockundergirl]

I'm a pretty hardcore atheist, just for the record.

My value system has nothing to do with religion.

I was speaking only about the common misconception about living with someone before marriage making it more likely to end in divorce. The only reliable marker (from what i have read) to predict the success of the marriage is the age of the people,, the older you are when you get married statistically he more likely it is for the marriage to succeed. Everyone has different reasons for thr choices. I'm interested... tho, for you personally what is your objection to living together before marriage? I mean no disrespect by that question, im just interested.

 

[GoldieSaysMeep]

OP,

For me, it is the lack of committment.

I've worked hard to be independent and I'm not willing to give up some of that independence to enter into a union unless I know for sure that the man is serious about it and seriously wanting/planning to build a future. And of course, I'd have to be just as serious about a future with him. And, imo, if he's that serious, he can wait to move in with me till he's ready to pop the question.

I don't want to uproot & move only to have to do so again several years down the line. Yes, that can happen in a marriage, but it's less likely if both people take the concept of marriage seriously. It's easier to take marriage seriously and there's more at stake to make you work things out.

For the record, I did not take it seriously at 21 when I was married to a 33 year old man (who from what I have since been told wanted a young trophy wife) for 3 weeks. I was a child who wanted to get away from my parents and be a grown up. The only reason I did not call the whole thing off was because my parents had spent a fortune (against my will) on a ceremony and guilted me into showing up.

In the end, I was penniless, alone, sleeping on friends couches to get by and over 13 years have worked my butt off to built myself back up.

(I should point out, that lavish ceremony is also a reason I refuse to spend more than about $1500 on a wedding if I ever have another one-- it should be about the relationship, not the party and so many people forget that...).

A man willing to wait to move in until the ring is on the finger, to me, is more serious about the relationship and less likely to say "oh, we'll just move out if things get testy". A woman with a ring on the finger is less likely to just up and run off when things go sour as well.

You're right, it is harder to end a marriage. As it should be. Because it is a different level of committment. It should not be entered into lightly (as I learned the hard way) and it should not be left lightly (If I ever marry again, it will be forever--the only exception being abuse or serious infidelity).

I guess for me, it's just a different level of seriousness. One of the reasons I am very pro gay marriage is because I think it's awful that in many places serious gay couples aren't allowed to make that level of committment. It *is* different and not just for religious reasons.

I do think people should wait until they are in their mid to late 20's. I don't know many people who are the same person they were in college. People change and "find themselves" in their early 20's which is why I think the divorce rate is lower for people who marry in their 30's. For lack of a better phrase "they are who they are going to be".

And also, people need to learn what couples fight over and discuss these issues long before they even talk of marriage. Be on the same page or at least realise you will have to compromise if you want it to work.

For me, this means I would need to date the person, seriously (as in spending several days a week together) for at least a year or so before considering an engagement. I would need to be sure we were on the same page about finances, children, upkeep of a home, household chores, "alone time" (in both the alone as a couple *wink wink nudge nudge* & alone as in doing our own thing seperate from each other) before getting into a relationship where we were talking marriage. I am comfortable alone, I am comfortable taking care of myself so I am very very picky about boyfriends.

Communication is more important to me than actually "living it". I'd rather know all of these things about the person as best as I can before just moving in and learning these things that way. It's a different learning style. You need to learn before you choose a spouse. But you can also learn a lot by how they are in their own & your space while dating if you are both open and honest.

Example: If you've been to the guys house enough times & he's been to yours, you all know how you keep your homes. I know my bf is messy. He knows I'm a neat freak. I clean his place when I'm there. He makes a mess in mine. It's something we don't think matters in the big scheme of things BUT if you are the type of person for whom that will cause drama every time a pair of socks winds up on the floor, don't think the person is going to suddenly become different when you move in. We both know we don't care about this difference because we have talked about it. Same thing with money, and spending habits and even down to pets we want to have. We've talked about and witnessed each others own habits.

I think that when you can decide you want to spend your life with someone based on communication and observation, it makes for a stronger bond "going in" than just living with them and deciding as you learn. When you decide as you learn, it's more likely something will come up that you never talked about that you (or he) decides you can't deal with. And then you have to move out. And it still hurts and costs $$.

Granted, this probably doesn't work for everyone. People have different learning styles when it comes to everything and choosing a spouse is something that obviously requires a lot of learning about the person.

I've seen firsthand that living together is no guarantee. I lived with another bf previously when I was younger and he & I had an amicable split up and are still on good terms, in fact we never fought lol we just decided we didn't click so chose to split. So I realize not every "move out" has to be awful. I left xH because he hit me. Once. And I left. I was young, broke and broken but I had enough self esteem left to know that staying with him would have been a stupid moved. Had it annulled. Lost every cent I had in the process.

I'm at a point now where I am just not willing to alter my life & home to move in with a guy unless he is, for sure, "the one". *shrug* I don't need a boyfriend to help pay the bills. So until my bf & I decide we are ready to get engaged, and set a date, I'm not giving up my cozy, cheap apartment and dealing with the hassle of moving.

I have been with my current bf for a year. We're very happy. Never fight. Talk about everything. Know where each other stands. We probably had this discussion around 5 or 6 months in because we were spending 4 nights a week and both wanting more time together. He said he would be okay with either way, but fully respected my wishes and would never pressure me to just move in because he really doesn't think it matters either way, and we're pretty much on the same page as far as talking about stuff before making any major life decisions. And that tells me lots about him. He knows this means a lot to me.

My last bf (dating about 3 yrs), he freaked out and threw a tantrum when I wouldn't move in with him. He ended up cheating on me a month or so after we had this discussion so I'm sure glad I didn't take him up on his offer to shack up with him. haha.

I hope this makes sense. It makes sense in my head lol.

 

[rockundergirl]

OP,

For me, it is the lack of committment.

I've worked hard to be independent and I'm not willing to give up some of that independence to enter into a union unless I know for sure that the man is serious about it and seriously wanting/planning to build a future. And of course, I'd have to be just as serious about a future with him. And, imo, if he's that serious, he can wait to move in with me till he's ready to pop the question.

I don't want to uproot & move only to have to do so again several years down the line. Yes, that can happen in a marriage, but it's less likely if both people take the concept of marriage seriously. It's easier to take marriage seriously and there's more at stake to make you work things out.

For the record, I did not take it seriously at 21 when I was married to a 33 year old man (who from what I have since been told wanted a young trophy wife) for 3 weeks. I was a child who wanted to get away from my parents and be a grown up. The only reason I did not call the whole thing off was because my parents had spent a fortune (against my will) on a ceremony and guilted me into showing up.

In the end, I was penniless, alone, sleeping on friends couches to get by and over 13 years have worked my butt off to built myself back up.

(I should point out, that lavish ceremony is also a reason I refuse to spend more than about $1500 on a wedding if I ever have another one-- it should be about the relationship, not the party and so many people forget that...).

A man willing to wait to move in until the ring is on the finger, to me, is more serious about the relationship and less likely to say "oh, we'll just move out if things get testy". A woman with a ring on the finger is less likely to just up and run off when things go sour as well.

You're right, it is harder to end a marriage. As it should be. Because it is a different level of committment. It should not be entered into lightly (as I learned the hard way) and it should not be left lightly (If I ever marry again, it will be forever--the only exception being abuse or serious infidelity).

I guess for me, it's just a different level of seriousness. One of the reasons I am very pro gay marriage is because I think it's awful that in many places serious gay couples aren't allowed to make that level of committment. It *is* different and not just for religious reasons.

I do think people should wait until they are in their mid to late 20's. I don't know many people who are the same person they were in college. People change and "find themselves" in their early 20's which is why I think the divorce rate is lower for people who marry in their 30's. For lack of a better phrase "they are who they are going to be".

And also, people need to learn what couples fight over and discuss these issues long before they even talk of marriage. Be on the same page or at least realise you will have to compromise if you want it to work.

For me, this means I would need to date the person, seriously (as in spending several days a week together) for at least a year or so before considering an engagement. I would need to be sure we were on the same page about finances, children, upkeep of a home, household chores, "alone time" (in both the alone as a couple *wink wink nudge nudge* & alone as in doing our own thing seperate from each other) before getting into a relationship where we were talking marriage. I am comfortable alone, I am comfortable taking care of myself so I am very very picky about boyfriends.

Communication is more important to me than actually "living it". I'd rather know all of these things about the person as best as I can before just moving in and learning these things that way. It's a different learning style. You need to learn before you choose a spouse. But you can also learn a lot by how they are in their own & your space while dating if you are both open and honest.

Example: If you've been to the guys house enough times & he's been to yours, you all know how you keep your homes. I know my bf is messy. He knows I'm a neat freak. I clean his place when I'm there. He makes a mess in mine. It's something we don't think matters in the big scheme of things BUT if you are the type of person for whom that will cause drama every time a pair of socks winds up on the floor, don't think the person is going to suddenly become different when you move in. We both know we don't care about this difference because we have talked about it. Same thing with money, and spending habits and even down to pets we want to have. We've talked about and witnessed each others own habits.

I think that when you can decide you want to spend your life with someone based on communication and observation, it makes for a stronger bond "going in" than just living with them and deciding as you learn. When you decide as you learn, it's more likely something will come up that you never talked about that you (or he) decides you can't deal with. And then you have to move out. And it still hurts and costs $$.

Granted, this probably doesn't work for everyone. People have different learning styles when it comes to everything and choosing a spouse is something that obviously requires a lot of learning about the person.

I've seen firsthand that living together is no guarantee. I lived with another bf previously when I was younger and he & I had an amicable split up and are still on good terms, in fact we never fought lol we just decided we didn't click so chose to split. So I realize not every "move out" has to be awful. I left xH because he hit me. Once. And I left. I was young, broke and broken but I had enough self esteem left to know that staying with him would have been a stupid moved. Had it annulled. Lost every cent I had in the process.

I'm at a point now where I am just not willing to alter my life & home to move in with a guy unless he is, for sure, "the one". *shrug* I don't need a boyfriend to help pay the bills. So until my bf & I decide we are ready to get engaged, and set a date, I'm not giving up my cozy, cheap apartment and dealing with the hassle of moving.

I have been with my current bf for a year. We're very happy. Never fight. Talk about everything. Know where each other stands. We probably had this discussion around 5 or 6 months in because we were spending 4 nights a week and both wanting more time together. He said he would be okay with either way, but fully respected my wishes and would never pressure me to just move in because he really doesn't think it matters either way, and we're pretty much on the same page as far as talking about stuff before making any major life decisions. And that tells me lots about him. He knows this means a lot to me.

My last bf (dating about 3 yrs), he freaked out and threw a tantrum when I wouldn't move in with him. He ended up cheating on me a month or so after we had this discussion so I'm sure glad I didn't take him up on his offer to shack up with him. haha.

I hope this makes sense. It makes sense in my head lol.

It does make sense! we all get shaped by what has and hasn't worked for use in our lives. and although i might not 100% agree with everything you said,, you seem to have a head on your shoulders! I"m really going to think about some things you wrote thanks

 

[GoldieSaysMeep]

It does make sense! we all get shaped by what has and hasn't worked for use in our lives. and although i might not 100% agree with everything you said,, you seem to have a head on your shoulders! I"m really going to think about some things you wrote thanks

Thanks. I'm just glad I made some coherent sense lol I reread that and gave myself a headache. haha. I ramble sometimes.

 

[Inigo]

A bunch of stuff.

That was good. I like you.

 

[Ladysunflr]

I'm sitting down looking at my budget and shaking my head because every penny i earn goes right back out of my checking account to bills! I have a modest home, a modest car. I watch what i spend, but it just seems pointless! My house taxes will always e 4500 my mortgage is always going to 1300 a month.. I have everything at the min.. cell phone , groceries, cable, internet... etc.. and I'm barely getting by!! grrr I feel like unless I magically start making 6 figures I'm never going to be able to have some extra cash! Sorry i just had to vent. thank for reading

OP - how about downgrading your Disney trip to one of the all star resorts instead of AKL if you're so strapped for cash?

 

[jaminmd]

OP - how about downgrading your Disney trip to one of the all star resorts instead of AKL if you're so strapped for cash?

OP has stated repeatedly in this thread that the trip is a gift from her boyfriend.

 

[GoldieSaysMeep]

That was good. I like you.

Thank you.

 

[disneybound31]

Is it possible to look into refinancing mortgage to a lower payment? Did I overlook a discussion about that already- computer working slow so I didn't go back to check.

 

[rockundergirl]

Is it possible to look into refinancing mortgage to a lower payment? Did I overlook a discussion about that already- computer working slow so I didn't go back to check.

Well i looked into that about 2 months ago, i could get my payments a touch lower, but even with low closing costs like 900, its just not worth the refi. good idea tho.

 

[disneybound31]

Well i looked into that about 2 months ago, i could get my payments a touch lower, but even with low closing costs like 900, its just not worth the refi. good idea tho.

Those are good closing costs... we recently did a refi with small amount of cash out to pay off our only car pymt and had the closing costs rolled into the loan. I just wondered about rolling them in so you would have no OOP, but if it will not significantly reduce your pymt then I understand why you would not want to bother. Our pymt went up just slightly but we reduced from a 30 year to 15 year.

Good luck- money is a stressful part of life. Will be throwing good thoughts your way.

 

[Colleen27]

Unless you were really unusual, I think you'd discover how quickly it spends. For one thing, just Federal taxes (income and FICA) is really going to eat into that money - a lot faster than when you make $50k. It sounds like you'd like a nicer house on the water - your mortgage goes up, your insurance goes up, your property taxes go up, and you have maintenance costs you didn't even think about (my parents live on a lake - dock maintenance, boat maintenance, lake weed maintenance, new sand for the stuff that washed away every year. You'll upgrade your vacation - go every year and maybe take two vacations. And put some extras into your budget - like cable if you don't have it.

I suspect we would be unusual in that repect, and given time we may yet get to find out. I wouldn't trade the house we just bought for anything. We are just getting moved into my dream house - an 1880 Victorian that needs a bit of renovating and a lot of decorating and restoring - that we were able to buy with cash, and I really don't see us moving again until we're ready to "trade down" to a condo in the city when the kids are grown. It would take an extreme situation for us to have a mortgage again. There really isn't much I'd change about our life based on money - we'd buy DVC a little sooner (we're saving for a cash buy-in, we don't finance anything), replace my minivan and our boat with newer models a bit sooner (same thing - we're saving for a cash purchase), maybe take 3 vacations per year instead of 2 if time permits. But overall, I'm very happy with our modest small-town life. In years when DH makes more than we need, the extra just goes into savings now, which is why we were able to buy this house outright and why our kids already have significant college funds in addition to the prepaid tuition contracts that they were given by a relative. I don't think that would change all that much if we were talking about an extra 50+K instead of an extra 10-15K.

 

[Colleen27]

I was speaking only about the common misconception about living with someone before marriage making it more likely to end in divorce. The only reliable marker (from what i have read) to predict the success of the marriage is the age of the people,, the older you are when you get married statistically he more likely it is for the marriage to succeed. Everyone has different reasons for thr choices. I'm interested... tho, for you personally what is your objection to living together before marriage? I mean no disrespect by that question, im just interested.

Not to be a downer, but there is one other factor that consistantly predicts negative outcomes for a marriage - if either party has children from a prior relationship, the odds of the marriage ending in divorce are about twice the overall rate. I know it runs contrary to what a lot of people believe, but that's one of the reasons I wasn't in a hurry to marry my DH. I wanted some time living together and interacting as a family on a day-to-day basis before we took it to a level that would be much harder and more traumatic to end. I'm not religious and don't really see marriage as a higher/stronger level of committment, just a potentially messier one, so for us living together first made sense.